118 replies to this topic

[Rinkata Prime]

Well, I had built up all four riflemans. They working good for me now.
But still RFL-LK "Lazy Killer" is worst among them.
I hope, PGI would rebalance RFL-LK quirks soon.

Also, it is very annoying that all Riflemans have their back armor hitboxes in the front.
My rifleman was lost back armor by front attacks several times already, so I am pretty sure about that.
Both sidetorsos have their back armor in the front.
I hope, PGI would fix it soon (I have reported this).

Now my riflemans could reach 800 damage goal in the round.
If you want to do the same, just follow the next rules when you build your rifleman.
1) No XL engine. Throw it away.
2) No close combat. Medium to long range only.
3) Use your mates as a shield as often as you can. It is not that manly, but... it is strongly required.

Edited by Rinkata Kimiku, 06 March 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[RestosIII]

Rinkata Kimiku, on 06 March 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well, I had built up all four riflemans. They working good for me now.
But still RFL-LK "Lazy Killer" is worst among them.
I hope, PGI would rebalance RFL-LK quirks soon.

Also, it is very annoying that all Riflemans have their back armor hitboxes in the front.
My rifleman was lost back armor by front attacks several times already, so I am pretty sure about that.
Both sidetorsos have their back armor in the front.
I hope, PGI would fix it soon (I have reported this).

Now my riflemans could reach 800 damage goal in the round.
If you want to do the same, just follow the next rules when you build your rifleman.
1) No XL engine. Throw it away.
2) No close combat. Medium to long range only.
3) Use your mates as a shield as often as you can. It is not that manly, but... it is strongly required.

I can confirm with the armor. When LRMs hitting my face from a mech 500 meters away do damage to my structure due to ripping through my back somehow, it's quite frustrating.

[Ted Wayz]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 05 March 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Source? Tabletop record sheets, it's notoriously underarmored for it's weightclass.

And yet in PGIs world the Jager has more durability. See you can't go there and then just stop.

[Ted Wayz]

reign, on 06 March 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

According to gman - Metamechs. The rifleman is a high Tier 2 mech...

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

So probably not going to get any love for it.

Hmm, and yet all the fanbois say "it is a situational mech" which would make it a Tier 3 or Tier 4. And the list has the laughable 5D as higher than any Jagermech. It isn't even the best Rifleman, and no one here is saying Jager's are worse than Rifleman. Yet Meta mechs...

Reliable source you have there. Even the people trying to defend the mech are not saying what they are saying. Not even close.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

RestosIII, on 06 March 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I can confirm with the armor. When LRMs hitting my face from a mech 500 meters away do damage to my structure due to ripping through my back somehow, it's quite frustrating.

I'm pretty sure there's no hitbox issue. Several of my squaddies and I did some hitbox testing right after they came out and no matter what angle they were shooting me from they couldn't generate a rear torso hit from the front (all with sub-100 pings in a private match, so we could control the results). I would be more inclined to blame hitreg issues and/or lag, because sometimes MWO will glitch hits on the opposite side of your 'Mech from where you were actually shot. I thought there might be a rear torso hitbox issue at first too, but testing revealed that it had to be something else. RFLs have a wide, flat back; it isn't impossible that something could be just beyond your FoV hitting you from an oblique angle. I don't have video of it, though, so take it for what it's worth and by all means go test it yourself.

I'm still having better-than-average results in these. I'm normally terrible in heavies... but with ~30-40 games each, here's where my stats are sitting:

3N and 3N(S): w/l 1.8, kdr 0.57 (I run dual AC20 for the lulz on my spare 3N, which accounts for the crappy kdr... the super-stock 3N(S) I run is doing far better, about 2/1 on kills)

3C: w/l 2.8, kdr 1.8... with quad AC2, of all things- not just my best performing heavy, but also currently my overall best performing 'Mech, edging out my HBK-IIC-A (1.9/2.0), and PNT-9R (1.52/1.78).

5D: w/l 3.0, kdr 1.25 (I've played about ten fewer games in this variant, so it hasn't normalized yet)

LK: w/l 0.8, kdr 1.3 (suffered a bad loss streak over the weekend; did better tonight but haven't quite made it up yet)

It's probably worth noting that I can't quite break even with my Black Knights, even running meta or near-meta configs on them (my best Knight w/l is 0.86). Neither my Black Knights, nor my Grasshoppers, nor my sold-long-ago Catapults ever broke a 1.0 win/loss. There's nothing wrong with the Rifleman. It's a good 'Mech. Use it right and it will treat you well. Lots of ridge peeking, a little bit of corner peeking, and absolutely no facetanking if you can possibly avoid it. Twist like a maniac and use your gigantic arms to shield when you start taking fire. Front-load the hell out of your armor (I run 6 on my back, the rest up front). Load up on Seismic and Radar Dep, and use them. Position yourself so that you can use your fantastic vertical range of arm motion to fire on enemies that can't shoot back (Alpine and Canyon have lots of great spots for this).

Does the RFL melt disturbingly quickly when focused? Yeah, sure does. So be more cautious. Peek out at the same time as more appealing targets. Make sure you're never the nearest target to the enemy team. Don't be the first around the corner. Play it like the second-line direct fire support 'Mech it's supposed to be, and you'll do just fine.

[Y E O N N E]

reign, on 06 March 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

According to gman - Metamechs. The rifleman is a high Tier 2 mech...

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

So probably not going to get any love for it.

BJ-1X was low T2 before the 1 Dec. 2015 patch.

It is now a worse 'Mech than it was. Full duration, more heat, shorter range, same structure, lower speed.

RestosIII, on 06 March 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

I'd have never thought to make some of those, but I'm going to use some of them just because they seem unique. Legend Killer one is definately one I'll try out.

The -5D is sub-optimal. Even ignoring that ERPPCs are not good options, you can actually squeeze one more DHS in if you shunt both ERPPCs into one arm with only lasers in the other to free up the room.



I would point out that although my -5D has the worst KDR (it has seen the most churn in terms of build, lots of experimentation), it also has the second-highest WLR.

The -3N is a monster. The only thing holding it down is a lack of 30% jam chance reduction quirks.

[Kyynele]

Ted Wayz, on 06 March 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

And the list has the laughable 5D as higher than any Jagermech. It isn't even the best Rifleman, and no one here is saying Jager's are worse than Rifleman.

You probably want to take a closer look at the list, as Jager-DD with 3x UAC5 is listed above all Riflemen at the top of tier 2. Also, if you want to laservomit, I'm going to go ahead and say that the Jagers are far worse for that than the Rifleman.

Also, the "best" Rifleman bit is highly debatable. To do well against highly skilled opponents, you typically want to have a high midrange alpha that allows you to torso twist away after to roll as much damage as you can while you back away to cover. 5D does this with ease. The damage output wise "best" Riflemen typically require you to stare at your targets while you deal that damage, which means you're making yourself an easy kill for skilled opponents, which to me explains their lower standing on the list.

The list is, after all Metamechs, not Underhivemechs.

But, it looks like you're not really interested in having a proper discussion about the subject, and are instead desperately trying to twist absolutely anything to somehow support your claim that the Rifleman is a terribad mech.

[Chados]

As I've said in the past...the 3C and 3N could use the LK's structure buffs. They aren't extreme. Just a touch of durability there-a little dab will do ya.

The 3C only needs the CT but the 3N could use them all.

And I even Twittered Russ about the uAC jam-chance reduction for the 3N and his response was that the 3N is an AC/5 mech, not a uAC mech. So we ain't getting that, and I'm not wasting tonnage on regular AC/5s when I can't bring more than two or enough other firepower without sacrificing even more armor. Life's a tradeoff. So I bring AC/10s instead.

[VirtualSmitty]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 06 March 2016 - 11:59 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure there's no hitbox issue. Several of my squaddies and I did some hitbox testing right after they came out and no matter what angle they were shooting me from they couldn't generate a rear torso hit from the front (all with sub-100 pings in a private match, so we could control the results). I would be more inclined to blame hitreg issues and/or lag, because sometimes MWO will glitch hits on the opposite side of your 'Mech from where you were actually shot. I thought there might be a rear torso hitbox issue at first too, but testing revealed that it had to be something else. RFLs have a wide, flat back; it isn't impossible that something could be just beyond your FoV hitting you from an oblique angle. I don't have video of it, though, so take it for what it's worth and by all means go test it yourself.

I'm still having better-than-average results in these. I'm normally terrible in heavies... but with ~30-40 games each, here's where my stats are sitting:

3N and 3N(S): w/l 1.8, kdr 0.57 (I run dual AC20 for the lulz on my spare 3N, which accounts for the crappy kdr... the super-stock 3N(S) I run is doing far better, about 2/1 on kills)

3C: w/l 2.8, kdr 1.8... with quad AC2, of all things- not just my best performing heavy, but also currently my overall best performing 'Mech, edging out my HBK-IIC-A (1.9/2.0), and PNT-9R (1.52/1.78).

5D: w/l 3.0, kdr 1.25 (I've played about ten fewer games in this variant, so it hasn't normalized yet)

LK: w/l 0.8, kdr 1.3 (suffered a bad loss streak over the weekend; did better tonight but haven't quite made it up yet)

It's probably worth noting that I can't quite break even with my Black Knights, even running meta or near-meta configs on them (my best Knight w/l is 0.86). Neither my Black Knights, nor my Grasshoppers, nor my sold-long-ago Catapults ever broke a 1.0 win/loss. There's nothing wrong with the Rifleman. It's a good 'Mech. Use it right and it will treat you well. Lots of ridge peeking, a little bit of corner peeking, and absolutely no facetanking if you can possibly avoid it. Twist like a maniac and use your gigantic arms to shield when you start taking fire. Front-load the hell out of your armor (I run 6 on my back, the rest up front). Load up on Seismic and Radar Dep, and use them. Position yourself so that you can use your fantastic vertical range of arm motion to fire on enemies that can't shoot back (Alpine and Canyon have lots of great spots for this).

Does the RFL melt disturbingly quickly when focused? Yeah, sure does. So be more cautious. Peek out at the same time as more appealing targets. Make sure you're never the nearest target to the enemy team. Don't be the first around the corner. Play it like the second-line direct fire support 'Mech it's supposed to be, and you'll do just fine.

Some good points here. I haven't noticed a hitbox issue and i'm also putting up big numbers in the quad AC2 build. Granted i'm a tier 2 scrub, but both the #C and LK are rocking quad 2s and quad medium lasers and i'm doing well. The 3N is monster, agree with the poster above.

[Chados]

I think it has decent hitboxes, honestly. Best with STD engines, in my experience, but others seem to like XLs. I think XLs make them too squishy but with STDs they can get in and brawl midrange if you aren't alone. Your mileage may vary.

[Metus regem]

Chados, on 07 March 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

I think it has decent hitboxes, honestly. Best with STD engines, in my experience, but others seem to like XLs. I think XLs make them too squishy but with STDs they can get in and brawl midrange if you aren't alone. Your mileage may vary.

I find that I do rather well with this build:

RFL-3N


I run it on both my 3N(S) and my LK, as long as I am no stupid trying to pilot it like it is something it's not, but stick to the outer edges of the engagement picking my targets with care, she does okay.

[PyckenZot]

RFL with STD engine allows for a decent whallop, good mobility and acceptable survivability.

Must be the first mech in a while that doesn't need some kind of fix from the start,...

[TKG]

PyckenZot, on 07 March 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

RFL with STD engine allows for a decent whallop, good mobility and acceptable survivability.

Must be the first mech in a while that doesn't need some kind of fix from the start,...

I happen to agree with this. It is entirely possible that when there is a mitigating factor to the presence of an XL engine it is appropriate to install one, but the rifleman has no balance, and range really doesn't address the fact that an XL engine just makes the mech an easier target for destruction.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 March 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

BJ-1X was low T2 before the 1 Dec. 2015 patch.

It is now a worse 'Mech than it was. Full duration, more heat, shorter range, same structure, lower speed.



The -5D is sub-optimal. Even ignoring that ERPPCs are not good options, you can actually squeeze one more DHS in if you shunt both ERPPCs into one arm with only lasers in the other to free up the room.



I would point out that although my -5D has the worst KDR (it has seen the most churn in terms of build, lots of experimentation), it also has the second-highest WLR.

The -3N is a monster. The only thing holding it down is a lack of 30% jam chance reduction quirks.

So far I'm using all the builds he posted BUT the 5D build. Stuck 3 LPLas and 4 smalls on it and I'm rolling in damage and kills. Finally found builds that make it so I don't feel like I'm gimping my team by using the poor thing.

[Chados]

Metus regem, on 07 March 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

I find that I do rather well with this build:

RFL-3N


I run it on both my 3N(S) and my LK, as long as I am no stupid trying to pilot it like it is something it's not, but stick to the outer edges of the engagement picking my targets with care, she does okay.

That's similar to what I run on the 3N and 3C. I use the STD 240, 2xAC/10, 3 or 4 tons ammo depending on how much armor I want, and two MLs. I usually put the lasers in the arms on the 3N so I can shoot up or down to hit lights perched above or below me on maps like HPG or Canyons.

I'm getting to where I don't want to run anything else, honestly. Ballistic-variant Wolverines sometimes for the jump jets and SRMs. That's about it.

[Metus regem]

Chados, on 07 March 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

That's similar to what I run on the 3N and 3C. I use the STD 240, 2xAC/10, 3 or 4 tons ammo depending on how much armor I want, and two MLs. I usually put the lasers in the arms on the 3N so I can shoot up or down to hit lights perched above or below me on maps like HPG or Canyons.

I'm getting to where I don't want to run anything else, honestly. Ballistic-variant Wolverines sometimes for the jump jets and SRMs. That's about it.

I found bumping it up to a 250 only really cost me half a ton, and gave me an extra TRUDUB ™, well worth the price.

My Riflemen make a good addition to my CW deck, as I'm a Warhammer pilot through and through, lets me get to Whammy's and two Riflemen in my deck.

[mogs01gt]

Rinkata Kimiku, on 29 February 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

This post is about new mech, which I have tested enough already.
I'll cry a bit about Rifleman, using my bad english, so just skip it if you not interested.
PGI, give MOAR love to Rifleman, please.
First of all, give armor/structure quirks to all Rifleman's semi-torsos and improve those quircks which are present already...
Oh, they need your love, PGI, trust me...
If you carry XL engine - death in one shot is very common.
If you downgraded to standard engine - huh... you'll lose weapons in no time (but half of them you lost already in garage, so you can't lose too much of them in battle).
It is very hard to fight against other magically quirked IS and naturally powerful Clan mechs for poor Rifleman.
A good game with even 600-700 damage? Miracle...
Second issue is Lazy Killer. Yes, I am correct RFL-LK's name must be Lazy Killer.
So, PGI, please, rename this mech or bring as much love as possible to this piece of sh... mech.
Rifleman hero is worst Rifleman ever. Even RFL-3C with the same hardpoints is better than Lazy Killer, because of better quirks.

So what you're saying is it has the medium mech syndrome? To big, to slow and not enough firepower?

[Y E O N N E]

RestosIII, on 07 March 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

So far I'm using all the builds he posted BUT the 5D build. Stuck 3 LPLas and 4 smalls on it and I'm rolling in damage and kills. Finally found builds that make it so I don't feel like I'm gimping my team by using the poor thing.

The -5D will melt faces with 4xLL + 2xML. Save the ML for pinch situations and just alternate LL groups at 300-600 meters and watch the damage roll in.

I'm just a die-hard fan of PPCs and I like being able to turn and burn, though, so I make them work.

Chados, on 07 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

And I even Twittered Russ about the uAC jam-chance reduction for the 3N and his response was that the 3N is an AC/5 mech, not a uAC mech. So we ain't getting that, and I'm not wasting tonnage on regular AC/5s when I can't bring more than two or enough other firepower without sacrificing even more armor. Life's a tradeoff. So I bring AC/10s instead.

I'm not surprised, and Russ is right. There is a variant, the RFL-5M, which is literally the same thing as a 3N but with UAC/5. They could later release that one with the UAC quirks and, in trade, no energy range quirk.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 07 March 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[Walsung]

Chados, on 07 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

As I've said in the past...the 3C and 3N could use the LK's structure buffs. They aren't extreme. Just a touch of durability there-a little dab will do ya.

The 3C only needs the CT but the 3N could use them all.

And I even Twittered Russ about the uAC jam-chance reduction for the 3N and his response was that the 3N is an AC/5 mech, not a uAC mech. So we ain't getting that, and I'm not wasting tonnage on regular AC/5s when I can't bring more than two or enough other firepower without sacrificing even more armor. Life's a tradeoff. So I bring AC/10s instead.

according to fluff the LK is not an lbx mech though and they put those pieces of rubbish as it's main quirks. I can't remember whether the story had it had ac's of some sort (could have been ultras) so they could have given it a weapon that wasn't a feather duster to hit with.