16 replies to this topic

[Dekallis]

How important are missile velocity quirks? I noticed the projectile speed on LRMS is woefully slow, and it occurred to me taking a build with high missile velocity quirks(the maddog prime has +20% missile velocity for example) might be the way to go for fire support mechs. I'm just not sure how much impact said quirks actually have or if they're even noticeable at all. I'm also curious if higher velocity missiles have a better chance of getting through AMS.

Since it isn't an attribute obtainable by other means I'd like to know in advance whether it's worth looking specifically for high velocity quirks for a missile mech.

For reference when I build a missler(and I always build one or two in mechwarrior games) I tend to think of my mech as mobile artillery. Dropping large amounts of burst damage at once and moving so opponents can't just backtrack that long stream of chained missiles to my position.So I tend to volley all at once or two launchers at a time so that when i have a solid lock i get a burst of damage instead of a stream that may or may not be interrupted and can change positions sooner.

[Leone]

I personally try to run Clan lrms at around 400~200m, so I've not felt the need for velocity quirks. Generally, when firing missiles, I find it hard to tell how effective ams is, and when running under abunch of ams, have no idea what kinda quirks the mech firing 'em has.

... Okay, makes sense you'd ask then, cuz that sorta stuff's real hard to figure just by playing. Hopefully someone else'll done an actual test or something.

*Waits somewhat patiently to see if anyone else knows.*

~Leone.

[Darwins Dog]

Against AMS it's a direct comparison. 20% faster missiles means 20% fewer shot down by AMS. Not many people run AMS, however so that's not always a benefit. It will make them harder to dodge, however. As Leone said, you want to be firing them from 400-200 meters (otherwise they are way too easy to avoid). At that range the travel time is pretty short, though.

I wouldn't chose a missile mech based solely on velocity buffs. Hardpoints (both for the missiles and backup weapons) and cooldown quirks are much more important.

[Koniving]

AMS requires a certain amount of time to shoot down missiles. Each missile has a health of 1, and a single AMS does a damage of 1.5 per second. That means per second it can take out 1.5 missiles. Since it works on a single missile at a time, this means it needs time to destroy the missile and begin damaging the next. As such a lot of missiles coming in quickly can slip by without any of them being destroyed.

The longer your missiles take to hit the target, the easier AMS can hit them, so a faster set of missiles could slip in some more missiles without them being shot down.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

It is not a bad thing to have, but the quirk is better suited to SRMs.

[Barkem Squirrel]

If you are going to run a missile boat the cool down quirk is more important, but see how it affects the heat of the mech first. As for velocity, it is sometimes the second thing I look at and might chose if there is only a 5% difference in missile cool down speed. So what effect do faster missiles have, well people were screaming bloody murder when the speed was increased to 170 m/s from 140 or 145. So they were lowered to 160 m/s. Everyone was just having a hard time adapting to the speed of the LRMs and everyone took them out to try. So 176 m/s missiles with a 10% quirk or 192 m/s missile are going to nail that mech that is poking at 300 m.

As a rule of thumb, never fire LRM farther than the target retension time. So 3.5 seconds.
560 m with normal missiles or
616 m with 10% speed and
672 m with 20% speed.

Now the AMS issue. Most people do not run AMS, hell most people do not run radar deprivation.
It is a good point, so do not chain fire LRMs at a mech with two AMS, especially LRM 5's. They will just stand there and eat them up. Just volley fire two or three launchers and be-dammed the ghost heat for a bit, then reality sets in and just fire two when it gets too hot. Me, I will stand under a bridge and let them keep on firing, you would be surprised how many people do not notice that I have not been hit after hundreds of LRMs. It is especially funny when they are TAGing you with 3 LRM boats at 600 m and you are just nailing them with LL's, ERLL's or AC rounds. The one problem is you have to stop firing or make tactical misses so that they do not stop wasting LRMs on you. Faster missiles means that more will get through unless there is a kit fox with 3 AMS with AMS range extension, and AMS rate of fire buffs. Forget ECM those buggers can shut down a missile boat or a group that brings 12 AMS and they move as a team.

[Dekallis]

Wow...thanks for the quick replies and that's more information than I actually expected to get. Now I've got some thinking to do and theory building to mess with before I go buying anything. Those specific range numbers in particular are really helpful. I was just sort of feeling out when missiles would get there in time or narc'ing things so losing lock wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

Looks like I'm gonna have to buy a maddog and test try it out, I'm not quite ready to hop over to IS mechs yet....and so my list of mechs to get gets ever longer.

[MadCat02]

I have to disagree .

Speed on LRMs is way better than Cooldown .

90% of the time you will have couple seconds to fire and land LRMs . Cooldown will not help you unless you have a lock on uninterrupted which is unlikely unless enemy sucks or your team is overpowering them .

Most of the game you getting maybe 1-2 Full salvos each time you get opportunity (optimistically) How many times good players will dodge entire LRM salvo by split second ? A lot . ( speed helps )

I mean if you really taking advantage of 10-15% Cooldown on LRMs then enemy is doing something wrong or you already ahead and your teammates can finish them of anyway . Not saying Cooldown is bad but LRM velocity is very effective .

LRM speed will help in close games where you need to soften enemy up when most of players are alive

Yes LRM speed is very good . It can mean the difference between 50 damage and zero damage .

Edited by MadCat02, 01 March 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I have to add in one more thing to this. Given that an AMS will destroy the CLOSEST missile, or ATTEMPT to do so before locking on to another, velocity will always increase the number of successful missiles hitting.

Consider that each AMS shot is 0.1 damage, and a missile has 1 hp. This means that 10 shots need to hit (and destroy) the missile before it will switch to the next - or the missile hits first, and then it switches to the next missile. That next missile is then in a position which cannot be hit successfully by 10 shots of AMS, and this same sequence of events cascades into total AMS failure. Velocity, by making missiles travel faster, increases the range at which an AMS will be overwhelmed.

[John1352]

As said above, higher missile velocity is good for hitting a mech before it gets into cover, cool down is better for when you have an uninterrupted lock.

A word of caution about the Maddog, it has huuuuge side torsos. If you are going to use SRMs, deadsiding is a very valid strategy. When your ST is shot after being destroyed, only 50% of the damage is passed on to the CT.

Edited by John1352, 01 March 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

MadCat02, on 01 March 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

I have to disagree .

Speed on LRMs is way better than Cooldown .

90% of the time you will have couple seconds to fire and land LRMs . Cooldown will not help you unless you have a lock on uninterrupted which is unlikely unless enemy sucks or your team is overpowering them .

Most of the game you getting maybe 1-2 Full salvos each time you get opportunity (optimistically) How many times good players will dodge entire LRM salvo by split second ? A lot . ( speed helps )

I mean if you really taking advantage of 10-15% Cooldown on LRMs then enemy is doing something wrong or you already ahead and your teammates can finish them of anyway . Not saying Cooldown is bad but LRM velocity is very effective .

LRM speed will help in close games where you need to soften enemy up when most of players are alive

Yes LRM speed is very good . It can mean the difference between 50 damage and zero damage .

That is fine and good, but put into practice: 10-20% speed boost into an already very slow moving projectile is not going to translate into much of an advantage. Could it translate into getting a hit vs. not? Sure, but sporadic shots of opportunity should not be the focus of a lurm boat. Ultimately, position will trump velocity and arguably even cool-down.

Now when velocity is used on SRMs it means not having to lead a moving target as much. That is much more useful IMO.

[Exard3k]

AMS effectivity depends greatly on positioning. +Velocity is always great to have for LRMs and SRMs in multiple situations. The faster the volley hits the target the better, because you never know how long the lock will hold.

[TheCaptainJZ]

20% quirk on anything is fairly good. I won't say quirks are ever a sole reason to buy a mech, because they can change at any time, but many quirks now are in the 5-15% range and not all that significant. Combined with weapon modules, yes, but not by themselves.

[Jables McBarty]

Keep in mind that quirks on OmniMechs are OmniPod-specific. So the Missile Velocity and Missile Cooldown are specific to the MDD-Prime LT and RT. If you swap in the MDD-A's LT and RT for the 6 missile hardpoints, you'll lose all those bonuses.

It can be difficult to figure out which pod goes with which quirk in the in-game store. Smurfy's has them all listed out here:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...irks_heavy_clan

Also here's a decent LRM guide: http://mwomercs.com/...studies-in-lrm/

[Koniving]

Dekallis, on 01 March 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Wow...thanks for the quick replies and that's more information than I actually expected to get. Now I've got some thinking to do and theory building to mess with before I go buying anything. Those specific range numbers in particular are really helpful. I was just sort of feeling out when missiles would get there in time or narc'ing things so losing lock wouldn't be an issue to begin with.

Looks like I'm gonna have to buy a maddog and test try it out, I'm not quite ready to hop over to IS mechs yet....and so my list of mechs to get gets ever longer.

John1352, on 01 March 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

As said above, higher missile velocity is good for hitting a mech before it gets into cover, cool down is better for when you have an uninterrupted lock.

A word of caution about the Maddog, it has huuuuge side torsos. If you are going to use SRMs, deadsiding is a very valid strategy. When your ST is shot after being destroyed, only 50% of the damage is passed on to the CT.

I would like to add that while large front torsos do not spread damage well especially from the side, most of mwo's best mechs "suffer" from this trait which is probably among their greatest advantages. Channel 90% or greater armor to the front and tank like a beast. Since the plan is long range enjoy the advantage of extremely high forward armor and do not let enemies get behind you. This is why Timber wolves are so great in the hands of long time players (and why the mad cat (tbr) is just so awfully easy to frag in some tier 4 matches when they fail to forward the armor).

[JC Daxion]

LRM's work best in the 200-450 range.. they really are medium ranged weapons, not the long range weapons people think. They can work up to 1k, but that is just on occasion verse someone way out of positions, or a noobie.

LRM's for the most part, are for mediums, and fast heavies that can re position well and has slots for extra back up weapons, like medium lasers or MPL's. I'd look at that before i took into question any missile quirk on them.

HBK 4J, wolverine 7K, trebuchet, Quick Draw, Kintaro, catapults, and lastly stalkers,, (but stalkers i never use more than a pair of 10's, outside of the 3H which runs a pair of 20's along with 4 lasers i think..) Typically LRM's and assaults are not the best, but i just enjoy stalkers with a few, and awesomes can also run them with degrees of success. Just remember, don't sit back in the heavier mechs.. push to at least that medium range.

[Rascula]

Just to add to whats already been said, whilst both are great perks to have on your mech in my experience cooldown is more important than velocity.

Significantly more important however is getting into a position where you have that clear un-interrupted lock to start with..