248 replies to this topic

[Anunknownlurker]

I have no issue with LRMs...they aren't my chosen weapon as I find the play style both dull and limited....they are as legitimate as any other in the MWO world, however, I do have an issue with LRM boats, especially assaults.

I run LRMs on a limited number of mechs and always as support weapons allowing me to, hopefully, put some damage down, show enemies that they'd best not go "that" way etc as I close the distance to mid-range where the fight really starts.

There are a few chassis (e.g. Catapult, Mad Dog and soon the Archer) which can effectively boat LRMs without detriment to the team but as soon as I see Stalker or Atlas LRM boat (stressing once again that a few LRMs on either of those can be effective) on my team, I pretty much discount it as, in my view, 80-100 tons of heavily armoured mech is not doing the team any favours by sitting at the back spewing missiles.

MWO is not ALL about causing damage, it is also about taking fire and distracting enemies by forcing them to focus on the bigger targets thus allowing lights and mediums to flank and destroy,

So, the maths may or may not add up for LRMs causing damage but for me, removing a massive hit pool from the fight is more detrimental to the other 11 players on your team than the potential >800 damage you MIGHT cause by sitting behind a rock and pressing one booton!

Peace

[Xavori]

Wolfways, on 02 March 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

So LRM's are good because you do 1/3 of max damage/ton with them forcing you to carry 14tons of ammo to be effective...
14tons of ammo!
14tons!!!

Who cares that its 14 tons of ammo?

What matters is how much damage do I contribute to the team as well as everything else I'm contributing.

But this thread has made it clear why the perception about LRM's exists. So many people cannot see beyond how often they miss to how much good they're actually doing.

By the logic being displayed, the US military should do away with artillery, most of our bomb ordinance, machine guns, the A10 (that thing wastes so much ammo which means it sucks, right?) and so on...

[Der Hesse]

El Bandito, on 02 March 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

Awesome-8R is one of my best LRM mechs. Those who do not respect its power usually turns to slag soon after. Of course, map terrain is a factor, but since map heat also affect laser boats, I am not complaining.

The 8R is indeed the best LRM-boat out there. I stopped screenshooting my 1k+ damage games because they were spamming the folder.

I use it as an aggressive med-short range mech. Often enough i lead charges in this thing and let myself fall back a bit if it gets below 250-300 meters. Often enough the enemy starts to retreat when i hammer them with those lurms and the rest of my team can wipe some mechs from behind. Key to this tactic is a big engine.
If i get too much damage i can still sit back a bit and fire my lurms indirect.

Nothing more fun as to charge the enemy spawnpoint right in the beginning of a match and killing that Direwolf or Kingcrab that wasn´t fast enough to get to the rest of the team.

[Xavori]

Der Hesse, on 02 March 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

Nothing more fun as to charge the enemy spawnpoint right in the beginning of a match and killing that Direwolf or Kingcrab that wasn´t fast enough to get to the rest of the team.

Totally off topic, but if you want major lulz, just the wall in Hellbore CW in a spider or commando and run behind the enemy column and take down the direwolf at the back. You'll generate enough salt to fill the ocean

[Xavori]

2fast2stompy, on 02 March 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

Math For The Anti-MG Crowd (Aka Why You're Wrong)...

You mock machine guns, and yet it was my Black Widow which sports 4 of 'em that did this in a solo PUG match on Terra Therma

http://images.akamai...BF5E16CBE07CD3/

[Kinski Orlawisch]

1. You spread the damage and you need more dmg to kill then a pinpointer. Go into the Testing ground and check how many LRM you need for one kill.
2. You don t tank for your team.

But right....do what you want.

[Milocinia]

My 6x cLRM5 MDD is happy with the state of lurms. They are an indirect fire weapon where you don't even need LoS yourself. They suppress, harass and soften up the baddies quite nicely. What more do you actually want a weapon system like this to do?

If ever I'm short of cbills I just fire up the MDD and it doesn't take me long to earn what I need.

Edited by Milocinia, 02 March 2016 - 02:23 AM.

[Kyynele]

Xavori, on 02 March 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

What matters is how much damage do I contribute to the team as well as everything else I'm contributing.

The problem is that you're not really contributing, what you're doing is more like leeching. The damage you do is insignificant as it splatters all around the mechs and not the components that you'd want it focused on to get that enemy killed as fast as possible. You're also not sharing your armor with the team, as it's your team that's taking the shots in the face while you lob the missiles from your safe place, which means that the enemy team has to do less damage than your team to get kills in the frontline, despite rotating the front mechs.

You'd be much more useful for the team if - at least with most of your mechs - you'd actually support your team and fight the enemies head-on.

But that would likely mean less damage done by you, which would mean less C-Bills. And that's why LRMs usually are the completely selfish choice. You can talk all you want about supporting your team, but the only one you're really doing a favor for is yourself. And it's all good, it's ok to be selfish, it's just healthy to be aware that you are.

But I know you're not going to get it, unless you at some point get good in the game. And most people do get better, so just keep it up.

[Wolfways]

Xavori, on 02 March 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Who cares that its 14 tons of ammo?

What matters is how much damage do I contribute to the team as well as everything else I'm contributing.

But this thread has made it clear why the perception about LRM's exists. So many people cannot see beyond how often they miss to how much good they're actually doing.

By the logic being displayed, the US military should do away with artillery, most of our bomb ordinance, machine guns, the A10 (that thing wastes so much ammo which means it sucks, right?) and so on...

So you think it's fine that an LRM boat needs 14tons of ammo to do 840 damage, while an AC boat (Jm6-S with stock weapons) does about the same damage for 8-9tons of ammo and can potentially put that damage in the location the firer chooses?

[Xavori]

Wolfways, on 02 March 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

So you think it's fine that an LRM boat needs 14tons of ammo to do 840 damage, while an AC boat (Jm6-S with stock weapons) does about the same damage for 8-9tons of ammo and can potentially put that damage in the location the firer chooses?

As a strong believer in combined arms, I think having a couple LRM boats is incredibly valuable.

As would be having some AC20 mechs to instill panic in enemies as huge chunks of their mech go bright yellow-orange per shot.

As would be having laser boats who never run out of ammo.

As would be having light mechs that can scout.

And so on...

[Zolaz]

LRMs are a support weapon. Artemis LRM 5s seems to be the best way to go. All the missiles are going to actually hit the mech if they dont run into AMS or terrain. On large mechs the damage is going to probably hit the CT. 4 or 5 of them, depending on quirks, will keep someone blinded with the explosions. Only using ALRM5s will also let you pack some brawling weapons, TAG and BAP.

You want TAG so that you can get your own locks. BAP, SL/MLs and MGs are for when the lights and mediums can hunting that pesky LRM boat. Nothing upsets an ECM light like having BAP nullify their ECM. You also get bonus c-bills for it. Same thing with TAG. Each time you or someone else hits your TAGed target you get extra c-bills. SLs and MGs will keep you from overheating if that light is using a Flamer.

[Wolfways]

Xavori, on 02 March 2016 - 02:29 AM, said:

As a strong believer in combined arms, I think having a couple LRM boats is incredibly valuable.

As would be having some AC20 mechs to instill panic in enemies as huge chunks of their mech go bright yellow-orange per shot.

As would be having laser boats who never run out of ammo.

As would be having light mechs that can scout.

And so on...

I believe in combined arms too, but not in a weapon system that you can virtually ignore. Moving around a map in a way that avoids direct fire while you're getting to the position you want means never having to think about LRM's.
I take a little bit (nothing to be bothered about) of LRM damage every match.
I take substantial damage from LRM's probably about every 50 matches.
I've probably died due to LRM damage about maybe a couple of dozen times since closed beta (not including the two days that Artemis broke LRM's).
I rarely use ECM or AMS. I never use Radar Derp.

When I use LRM boats my damage can be 1000+ in a match against poor opponents, or 100+ against good opponents with ECM, AMS, Radar Derp, and situational awareness.

Sometimes LRM's in a match are as useful as throwing confetti at a married couple to distract them while your "teammate" sits at a nearby window with a sniper rifle trained on them.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

all you brilliant einsteins arguing "how long it takes LRM to kill a target compared to lasers"

1) LRM can shoot the target when lasers are still getting their spare lenses to even find the target
2) they are a support weapon - to make YOUR job easier
3) dont try to equate functionally different weapons using functionally same critera - its skull crushingly stupid

[Chados]

LRMs change your strategy. When the hated LRM5 pounding starts I have to drop what I'm doing and try to break the lock. Terrain masking is viable on every map, but that means you can't be fixated on target. When I've got destroyed on Polar by ERLL cowards or long-distance LRMers it is because I got impatient and moved in either alone or unmasked, every single time. When I hold and wait, and maneuver using radar deprivation and terrain masking, I can brawl. My won/loss percentage on Polar is 1.72 and I've never brought a single build viable outside 500 meters to that map. It can be done.

[Curccu]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 02 March 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

all you brilliant einsteins arguing "how long it takes LRM to kill a target compared to lasers"

1) LRM can shoot the target when lasers are still getting their spare lenses to even find the target
2) they are a support weapon - to make YOUR job easier
3) dont try to equate functionally different weapons using functionally same critera - its skull crushingly stupid

1) do you mean range?
2) how do these make "my" job easier?
3) do you mean don't compare bad weapons to good weapons because it's insane? yeah sure.

[ILikePeaches]

The real benefit of LRMs is how they either halt or force the enemy to change maneuvers. It's a distraction that takes away focus from fighting. It suppresses and keeps heads down allowing allies to move. Even when the enemy pushes a small constant stream of LRMs can be enough to prevent them for getting their alphas off on target. And sometimes less is more! I'd rather take 4xLRM5s into combat and keep a constant, accurate stream on people than missing with 2xLRM20s half the time (Although I do use 2xLRM20s+Artemis on my MAD-5D with brutal effectiveness).

[BashT]

Well The Biggest Point is for me. That Lrms may be Fun but the LRM-DMG is not always Reliable and that makes it for me with a competitive mindset not a very viable weapon. It is too situational i would say.
They can be a nice suppressing fire tool but thats mostly all.

There are tools like radar depri and ECM that counters LRMs pretty hard.

If u are facing an half dead enemy that is able to get your ciritcal components precisely down while u have to hope for dmg spread jesus to actuall hit his crit red CT.

When it comes to things Like CW where it is even more Important to work with your team and go for Objectives LRMs pretty fail in my opinion.
Why? Its easy cuz usually LRM boats tend to stay far far back relying on the other Teammates to get actually lock ons for them meaning they do not share the dmg while others need to soak it up for LRM Boats to reliably be able to fire.
On most maps against smart enemys the lock on thing is getting hard cuz of obstacles and ECM what leads to LRM Boats effective range shrinking alrdy.
When your team decides to push or get pushed LRM are not able to dish out that quick dmg like other weapons can resulting in more return fire from the enemy.
So how valuable is your mech then for your team if u cannot stay in the frontline with them?

I can understand why Teams like KCom are not Happy with such not really usefull mechs on their side.

Nice for u to have the lulz but while u laugh 11 Other Ppl cannot laugh maybe.. so being selfish enjoys u while u are trying to buy me that u are a teamplayer cuz u have a support weapon?

Sure use them but dont try to make others believe they are all wrong or try to convince them that ur opinion is the only true answer while ur putting up some strange calculations that do not even give u any backup or evidence that you are right.
That u mention the atlas... if i remind correct he cannot even effectively use lrms cuz of his 1*10 and 2*6 Lubes. At least use mechs who can actually make good use of massive LRM Boating. Im not going into why Assault is not the best choice for lrms aswell.

Best Regards.

Edited by BashT, 02 March 2016 - 04:08 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Curccu, on 02 March 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

1) do you mean range?
2) how do these make "my" job easier?
3) do you mean don't compare bad weapons to good weapons because it's insane? yeah sure.

1) no
2) obviously not yours - since you lack the basic capacity to understand mixed unit tactics
3) yes, ofcourse i meant to do that, because thats exactly what "functionally different" means

...moron

[Inveramsay]

Lurms are pretty harmless on the whole against good players with radar derp modules. I can barely remember the last time I took significant damage from them other than in a direwhale. They certainly have a place and can be useful augmentating damage done by the team. 500 damage in a heavy or assault isn't much in cw and the fact that kcom didn't have high damage numbers is a reflecting of their skill. I don't know you've ever gone up against a top tier team? Your ct will be gone before you can blink but the rest of the match will be pretty much without a scratch. Punching a hole in someone doesn't require much damage as long as it isn't spread everywhere. Lurms are the archetype damage splurge where very little damage lands where you want it to

[Navid A1]

I loved LRMs... until PGI absolutely F*ed them with that MASSIVE and UNNECESSARY cooldown nerf in december.

I mean... really? were LRM20 or 15 so OP that you had to increase their cooldown by 1.5 seconds?

Changes like this makes me lose faith in PGI when it comes to anything regarding balance