62 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

BabyCakes666, on 02 March 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

this is like 3rd time this week that i get the blame and shot up n reported >_>

first time i saved a AFK raven from a cicada he thort i shot him then tried to kill me i just blew his guns off and called it a day

next guy walks in front of me and im shooting you can see all the bullets flying out of me DIES!!! then gos off at me and report me >_>

last one shoots me then ceeps shooting me so i kill him then his friends kill me and all report me then abuse me in chat D:

i dont need this **** i spent money on this game >_<

how many times do i have to be reported for some thing bad to happen

so any of you guys had this problem ???

I'd shoot you just on principle. 'Babycakes'...

J/k

[MoonUnitBeta]

nehebkau, on 02 March 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Its already been announced. Players will have to pay 21 cbills for every single (i.e. 1) point of team damage they do.

Do 100 damage and you will see 2100 cbills subtracted from your match earnings. There will be great crying from the lrm-tubs when they realize that 1/2 of the lrms they fired into the brawl actually hit friendly targets.

No, it hasn't been "it's already been announced.". I guess it's sort of half announced. but there's no threshold/tolerance for accidents.
2100cb for 100 team damage? Doesn’t that seem… a little low to you? 2100cb penalty for 100 damage should be more like 21,000cb. And I’m serious. 100 damage can take out both legs, or core a light mech. Or strip all the rear armor off 2-3 mechs (most people only put around 10-16 on all their rear torso’s).

100 team damage is not just damage dealt. That’s 100 damage that did not go to the enemy. That’s 100 damage in favor of the enemy. You are literally giving the other team the advantage that they now have to do less damage. So my point is that 100 team damage is not the same as dealing 100 damage to the enemy. It’s not even the same as dealing no damage at all. It’s worse!

If anyone ever deals 100 team damage, they should be put into Tier 6. I know you were just using an example damage, and I’m not knocking your example. What I’m highlighting is that 2100cb is a measly penalty. Ammo costs less. 100 team damage might be acceptable for CW (25 team damage per mech in your dropdeck?) I don’t know, I don’t play it.
But I can say for a fact that if anyone deals 100 points of team damage in Solo Queue, they are doing it on purpose or that just simply doesn’t care about their team. 2100cb penalty isn’t going to change that kind of behaviour, ESPECIALLY if that -2100cb penalty shows up in the bottom of the c-bill earnings list where no one will ever see it unless they make the effort to scroll down.

Not to mention, every game -21cb will show up in that list anyways, which desensitizes people to the penalty. Almost every game you have Team Damage [1] on your stats page at the end of the round.

Anyways, sorry for the rant lol… This gets me a little excited…

What I’m trying to point out is that we need harsher penalties. But we can’t give those harsh penalties out to those who honestly make mistakes that are out of their control. If we truly want to discourage friendly fire behaviour, the penalty needs to be harsh. But the tolerance should be fair.
Currently, there is a meaningless penalty, and there is no tolerance for mistakes. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

[BabyCakes666]

carnt we just get rid of FF in pug and not clan that be great

Edited by BabyCakes666, 02 March 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[cazidin]

BabyCakes666, on 02 March 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

carnt we just get rid of FF is pug and not clan that be great

Clan mechs are here to stay. PGI I think is close to a good balance between IS Tech + Quirks and Clan Tech.

[Dawnstealer]

Tarogato, on 02 March 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Ah, so you're one of those guys that I say "Go this way instead, you'll die over there!" ... and you die because you didn't hear me.

And likely have to deal with claims that the team is newbs and so on, yeah.

[Volthorne]

cazidin, on 02 March 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

Clan mechs are here to stay. PGI I think is close to a good balance between IS Tech + Quirks and Clan Tech.

He meant CW. Regardless, the answer is "no".

[sycocys]

Tyler Valentine, on 02 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

I've never understood this. You don't have to turn chat off to have self control and ignore the idiots. By turning chat off you're basically saying "I let these people get under my skin so much that I got rid of ALL communications in a team based game because I couldn't handle their taunting."

Just leave chat on and ignore, or feel bad for, the people that need attention.

How often to you see anyone that isn't dead typing in a match? 1 out of 30 games maybe. Its not really a hard decision to just eliminate the bs from your screen when its primary use is harassment, there's just no value to having it on.

As for voip - I'd actually leave it on IF dead players were automatically muted. Since they are not and I don't want to listen to children cry about how no one saved them from the boogeyman for the remaining 13 minutes of the match it stays off.

[Uzi Foo]

Had some guy TK people in 4 public group games in a row last night. Was fun watching him fail over and over.

Last week a trail ebon jag player decided to troll me when I was in my atlas. Every time I turned around he would shoot me in the back claiming I'm blocking his shots. There was no enemy in sight. That went on for a while. Let's just say he ended up a smoking wreck and pretty much every one reported him after we won.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 02 March 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

sycocys, on 02 March 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

How often to you see anyone that isn't dead typing in a match? 1 out of 30 games maybe. Its not really a hard decision to just eliminate the bs from your screen when its primary use is harassment, there's just no value to having it on.

As for voip - I'd actually leave it on IF dead players were automatically muted. Since they are not and I don't want to listen to children cry about how no one saved them from the boogeyman for the remaining 13 minutes of the match it stays off.

+1 for muting the dead.

IDK, I'll admit that there aren't many tactics in solo queue but every once in a while, when there are, it's epic. My point, and maybe I was a little bit of a **** about it, is you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just ignore the idiots and then when there is actually some good chat (could be tactics, could just be someone funny) you get to take part.

I also play CW as much as possible and chat/VOIP there is marginally more useful.

It's frustrating when you actually get a team to work together and there are three or four guys who still don't form up/push because they don't realize that everyone is talking to each other.

[Chimera_]

I've never had anyone really get upset at me for a TK (admittedly my sample size is only 2 or 3...). Every TK I've gotten has been someone running in front of me when I'm unloading on an enemy, and those who I killed understood their mistake. If you have rear crit ct and are missing enough structure to build a skyscraper, don't push in front of allies while they're shooting. I mean, don't do that in general but especially not if you're almost dead.

Also, if you're getting multiple TKs per week I'd argue that's probably a large part due to your lack of trigger discipline. I run mostly UAC builds, and even then I've only had 2 or 3 TKs in the last few months.

[veedubfreak]

Uzi Foo, on 02 March 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Had some guy TK people in 4 public group games in a row last night. Was fun watching him fail over and over.

Last week a trail ebon jag player decided to troll me when I was in my atlas. Every time I turned around he would shoot me in the back claiming I'm blocking his shots. There was no enemy in sight. That went on for a while. Let's just say he ended up a smoking wreck and pretty much every one reported him after we won.

I had some jackass in a catapult core my back armor before the fight even began, then he kept circling around me staring at me. Gave him an alpha to the face and he finally figured out that I had more guns than he did.

I've gotten to the point now that if you run in front of my fat 100 ton mech while I'm firing, it's your problem not mine.

[sycocys]

Tyler Valentine, on 02 March 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

I also play CW as much as possible and chat/VOIP there is marginally more useful.

I only play CW unless there's a quickplay event or like recently a mech outside my faction that I actually want to play (IIC HBK ftw).
And CW, I only drop with my unit - won't even stay logged in most of the time if a few of them aren't around, the game just isn't interesting enough on its own to actually make me want to play without my friends.

[nehebkau]

sycocys, on 02 March 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

I only play CW unless there's a quickplay event or like recently a mech outside my faction that I actually want to play (IIC HBK ftw).
And CW, I only drop with my unit - won't even stay logged in most of the time if a few of them aren't around, the game just isn't interesting enough on its own to actually make me want to play without my friends.

Having played with sycocys, I can say that, he has no need of coms to do his thing. When you become aware of the battle around you you don't need to hear someone say "Thats a timber in front of you" or "flank right". He has never failed to pull his weight and, sometimes mine as well.

Now,

MoonUnitBeta, on 02 March 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

No, it hasn't been "it's already been announced.". I guess it's sort of half announced. but there's no threshold/tolerance for accidents.
2100cb for 100 team damage? Doesn’t that seem… a little low to you? 2100cb penalty for 100 damage should be more like 21,000cb. And I’m serious. 100 damage can take out both legs, or core a light mech. Or strip all the rear armor off 2-3 mechs (most people only put around 10-16 on all their rear torso’s).

Ya, I can see your point and I agree -21 cbills is too small. I think an acceptable level of team-damage in a scrub match is 40 points (personally I think anything over 15 is horrible). Any more than that and you are not trying to reduce team damage at all. So I would figure that they should do is start penalizing team damage after 40 points to the tune of 1000 cbills per point.

100 team-damage == -$60,000 taken from your score.

Now people will say "What about that stupid light that runs in front of me while I alpha" , which will happen, and all I can say is that you would need to try to mitigate the damage (aim away) or watch your radar more for the location and movement of friendly units.

Edited by nehebkau, 02 March 2016 - 07:31 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

nehebkau, on 02 March 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Now people will say "What about that stupid light that runs in front of me while I alpha" , which will happen, and all I can say is that you would need to try to mitigate the damage (aim away) or watch your radar more for the location and movement of friendly units.

Yep, exactly. And in that particular case, that is where the threshold/tolerance limit would shine. Since the goal is that you should be dealing 0 team damage, any team damage dealt beyond 0 we consider as "accidents". But there becomes a point where accidents for the shooter become ignorance.

For the sake of the arguement, we'll say that 40 team damage is the tolerance limit. Any damage up to that point is not penalized. We put in a tolerance to take into consideration that the stupid light that ran infront of you was an idiot. But there's no reason we should punish the shooter for the ignorance of other players. So the tolerance protects the shooter against those types of events.
If the shooter is being careful, then the only reason he should be dealing team damage is because of other player's careless behaviour. And the tolerance/threshold limit takes care of those instances.

So you're allowed 40 team damage without penalty. And like you said, anything over that, yea, they must be doing something wrong. So after 40 team damage we start heavily penalizing them. And that's where the harsh penalties come in.

But, I will say that if we want to have harsh penalties like 1000cb per point of team damage, we definitely need a way to protect players against the idiocy of other players. We can't heavily penalize honest players for the ignorance of others.
I definitely want to see harsher penalties, but not without a system in place first that protects honest players from the ignorant ones.

[Revis Volek]

El Bandito, on 02 March 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

I think I remember reporting you (someone with 666 in his name). One guy claimed that you are a chronic teamkiller, at the start of the match, and sure enough you TKed that guy shortly afterwards, and the rest of us ended up killing you and then reporting you. So you could indeed be a guilty TKer for all we know.

Not that i like to name a shame but this isnt the first issue i have seen out of ya either bud.

They could have used you in the CW game the other night....

GRiPSViGiL, on 02 March 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Nope, I check my fire and re-position myself when needed. Sometimes friendlies may take your firing lane but you gotta pull your fire off, wait for them to pass, re-position, or progress to a new target. 3 times in a week no matter how much you play is to much. You probably need to L2Play because I might have no more than 10 FF damage a game most times less.

10 FF is a lot IMO, im sure you feel the same. That was a missed laser shot or two maybe.

[BabyCakes666]

WORLD OF TANKS has one if the ******* dose to much team dmg he gos blue and the hole team can kill him with out consequences same for him being a TK **** then hes marked for a week so other players no to watch out for him

[sycocys]

I don't really disagree with their being a FF buffer. 5-10 damage is probably more than enough to catch the actual accidental kills, much more than that and you'll have guys like the op that will troll at the end of matches just to see what they can get away with.

[nehebkau]

sycocys, on 03 March 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

I don't really disagree with their being a FF buffer. 5-10 damage is probably more than enough to catch the actual accidental kills, much more than that and you'll have guys like the op that will troll at the end of matches just to see what they can get away with.

I was thinking 40 as a max to account for the ******* who walks in front of a boomJag just as they alpha.

[sycocys]

nehebkau, on 03 March 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

I was thinking 40 as a max to account for the ******* who walks in front of a boomJag just as they alpha.

Well that's just part of the risk of being zoomed in and reducing your own field awareness to a tiny little cone.

[Mawai]

1) PGI has logs so that they can see exactly who did damage to which person and when.

2) I've played THOUSANDS of games. Over that I have maybe 3 to 5 team kills total. You somehow managed to do that in a week so you are definitely doing something wrong. If someone walks in front of you ... stop firing ... if you are firing lasers direct them upward. Irritating when someone walks in front of you but YOU have a basic responsibility to mitigate damage. (Oddly enough, this is also true legally when dealing with contracts and similar arrangements ... but that is off topic ).

Avoid firing into a melee unless you have a clear shot.

There are lots of things to do to minimize TKs and no excuse for having so many TKs unless you are doing it intentionally ... or had a particularly bad week.