106 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Lugh, on 03 March 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

And diplomatic enough not anger the people paying to keep the servers on so your cheap *** can keep playing for free....

I've spent my thousand or more, and would gladly continue to spend if they ever actually developed a game. Until that happens my game budget gets spent with other developers.

[nehebkau]

<sigh> The fact that the OP even asked this makes me shudder.


@OP
THEY ARE NOT REAL MECHS. THEY DO NOT TAKE MORE MATERIALS TO MAKE. A 100 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING TAKES THE SAME EFFORT TO MAKE AS A 25 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING.

If the goal of selling mech packs is to recover the cost of creating those mechs, then they should be near the same price.

<sigh>

[Chuanhao]

$20?

With mech packs, each weight class costs $20 (simplistically viewed) with a hero

WIth ala carte, each weight class also costs $35 (again simplistic view) with a hero

So its not unexpected that for Urban, Unseen Heavy, Kodiak, Unseen Medium, >> Same price of $20.

What bucks the trend in terms of mechs paid for with $$$, that would be the steam only specials, which costs more as the weight goes out.

In summary. when you pay with $$$, it doesn't matter what the weight class is.

But when you pay with virtual money (Cbills / MCs), weight class does matter.

Which is all silly, coz as many have explained, I might as well wait. as IS mediums on its own are not expensive in cbills. as compared to 15M Kodiaks.

And by waiting for the cbills to come out, you can choose exactly what your best three should be, out of the five.

So I would say that having the same pricing for lights and assaults is not the best idea. some differentiation would have been good.

But sure, hold on to this pricing and when a mech I like comes along (like the Maurauder and Archer for me) I went ahead and got it. Why?

Premium time alone is worth $14.95. so what's $5 more to get 3 mechs and some accessories?

[Lily from animove]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 March 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

Nope, thats because the 4X comes with a small engine (210) whereas most of them come with a 280. PGI has been reasonably consistent with engine cap rulings, until this mech where its getting an extra 30 ratings on every variant.

Its not gonna make it OP or anything, builds using engines larger than 325 wont be common. Its just annoying, because i would LOVE to use a 350 in my Grasshoppers, Maulers and Highlanders, but can't due to the engine cap rules they just broke for a different mech.

Hmm, then it makes no sense, But what make sense in PGI's decisions at all, some seem to be decided by a dice.

[Mawai]

I think it is a reasonable point to make.

When the mechs come out for MC and C-bills they are priced according to tonnage and equipment. So a 100t clan mech will cost far more cbills and MC than a 45 ton IS mech. However, the current single mech package pricing does not take this into account. Who knows, the phoenix hawk may wind up cheaper when bought for MC when it is released than it does paying the $20 pack price.

For example, the Blackjack mastery pack which includes the Hero, Champion, one other variant, 30 days premium and 3 mech bays is also $20 ... which is actually a much better value than the $20 base Phoenix Hawk package. On the other hand, the Atlas mastery pack is $41.00 ... but the Kodiak base with the hero add-on is only $35.

So ... yes ... I'd agree that some of their pricing is a bit inconsistent. However, you will have to wait quite a while before a phoenix hawk mastery pack is available and the mastery packs are actually one of the best deals offered in the MWO store.

[Vashramire]

nehebkau, on 03 March 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

<sigh> The fact that the OP even asked this makes me shudder.


@OP
THEY ARE NOT REAL MECHS. THEY DO NOT TAKE MORE MATERIALS TO MAKE. A 100 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING TAKES THE SAME EFFORT TO MAKE AS A 25 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING.

If the goal of selling mech packs is to recover the cost of creating those mechs, then they should be near the same price.

<sigh>

It's been brought up before but the $ they charge for single mech packs is inflated. Especially when compared to $80 4 mech packs (16 total), which is arguably far more work with skins and geo, a single mech pack costs far less time and resources to make. Then there is the difference between cost and value. No matter the cost of making it, the people buying it need to value it at that cost. Going to the store and looking at prices, PGI want you to value tonnage. Heroes are priced linearly regardless of functionality or loadout based on tonnage. Then they drop another single mech pack for a mech less than half the tonnage than the last one but for the same price?

They need to stick to a flat rate. 1 Mech = $15 or whatever or price for tonnage. They got away with this crap when they started tugging at peoples hearts with Urbie. Then they did Marauder which made it seem like a good deal. Then the cost stayed but the mechs kept getting lighter. Nostalgia is their bait. In no way should a 30t mech cost the same as a 100t unless you are going to normalize all mech costs. As much as people want to justify the cost, it's just them literally seeing what the threshold for pissing people off to the point of not buying things will be, and the tolerance is pretty high when you bring back something from someones childhood. Even if they did realize the ridiculous pricing of this package, they don't have the guts to change it or imburse anyone that already paid because that would mean that they would have to admit that they screwed up. And they don't even have to. If this pack flops there's no shortage of dumb threads saying "I want this mech, I will pay anything for it" that they can pick from to suck money from people.

If this game was an original IP and had no history before it, and only had to stand on what we have now (mechs and gameplay) then these packs would be laughed at till they went bankrupt. The value of these packs is far lower than the cost to make them, but they are banking on nostalgia of older players with bigger wallets to artificially inflate that actual value. That's just mean. Smart, but mean. And it's not like we didn't see it coming. 1+ year old Urbie thread till they made it and overcharged for a slow underperforming mech. That was all the go ahead they needed for a new plan to rake in money. It doesn't come down to covering costs, it's about how much they think they can get away with charging.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I haven't made up my mind yet for sure, but I think I am passing on the Phoenix Hawk completely.

It is one of the best looking mechs in the game IMO, but the pricing model is just putting me off. Combine that with the low medium tonnage and the proliferation of ballistic hardpoints on a 45 ton chassis in almost all variants...I can just wait till it is free. The ECM and MASC seems intriguing, but not enough to persuade me.

If anything seems real awesome in the Hero mech department, I can always buy that much later an not feel too bad.

*sigh*

P.S. A lot of the early adopter extras shouldn't be forgotten, but I still am kind of ehhh on that too.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 03 March 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[WarHippy]

Zolaz, on 02 March 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

So 100 ton mech pack costs the same as the 45 ton mech pack? Why?

This is because of their decision to get away from larger packs. If you wanted all of the mechs the older mech packs were a better value, however there were a lot of people that really only wanted one or two out of a package rather than all four. Essentially, what we have now is just the "a la carte" option which individually is more expensive. As such all mechs are sold at the higher price point in order to subsidize the mechs that don't sell as well in the current model.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Much as I tend to get accused of white knighting, I would like to know myself. Perhaps if they added an extra variant, but as is?

Also still feel the collectors should be $10 upgrade, not $20. And should be a token letting you choose which variant you want to be the "special" model. (1 time only, selected like one does faction content)

Likewise, IMO, the Ultimate Pack should come at like a 10% discount, or have extra stuff added to make it more appealing.

The pack costs have always seemed somewhat arbitrary from that perspective. On the other hand, from a production cost perspective, it doesn't take them any more or less resources to design, model, and texture a 20 ton mech versus a 100 ton mech.

So assuming they looked at previous sales figures and how much it costs to produce, (i.e. pay the artists/modelers, the overhead in utilities, equipment costs, etc, etc), and still bring in a margin of profit, that is probably how they arrived at that. That's how I would do it if I were them.

We already know from existing mechs that 45 tonners tend to cost between 1300 to 1600 MC for standard chassis and around 3300 for 'Hero' variants. So at about $7 per chassis, plus 3 mechbays at 350 MC each, which is roughly $5, it would cost about $26 to buy just the basic stuff in the $20 pack. That's not even including the premium time or 3 cockpit items.

So as far as existing pricing systems go for MWO, it's still a pretty good deal. Note that this post doesn't necessarily mean I'm defending the cost vs value of their current system or that I agree with it. I'm just pointing out that using their existing system of valuating mechs in MC based on their tonnage and equipment wouldn't necessarily be in our favor cost wise, quite the opposite in fact.

Would I love it if they packed even more value into these packs and threw in more mechs or cut back on the prices? Absolutely. But from their perspective based on current systems they probably already feel like they're bending over backwards for us at current pack prices.

I doubt you'll be able to convince them otherwise, but far be it from me to stop you since I plan on picking up this pack as well.

[Malleus011]

I'd love to buy all the PHXs, but right now, I'm halted at the 20$ basic pack. I will add either Collectors or a single Hero (likely Roc, if the missile arm isn't two huge boxes slung on the forearm) but can't see spending any more at the current pack settings.

I'd welcome PGI giving me a reason to spend more; I'm a whale and I like newseen.

Edited by Malleus011, 03 March 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[theta123]

Zolaz, on 02 March 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

So 100 ton mech pack costs the same as the 45 ton mech pack? Why?

I have my kodiaks now cheap i dont wanna see price increases!

[Sandpit]

Vashramire, on 03 March 2016 - 12:50 AM, said:

Maybe PGI needs more cakes?

Not when you're dealing with cake. Cake is not to be trifled with.

[TorinZ]

Players should really look to see what the value is for them in these packs. A lot of it is a personal perspective of the value. Between a Kodiak vs Phoenix Hawk, if you are looking at it in regards to a real life scenario, yes, like on Paper, the Kodiak has more value with its equipment and size. But in regards to a game, frankly, as typically a medium mech pilot, the PXH has a lot more value to me as a player than the assault mech does.

So it was easy for me to grab the $20 Standard package for the mechs,30 day banked premium time, and the extra goodies for preordering. That said, I was on the fence for a $15 hero at this tonnage, but I still grabbed one since I sill feel like I am getting enough from the extra preorder goodies. But I will not pick up the second one. I kind of wanted to see the 2 together at a decent price, but 2 at $15 each doesn't work for me. As for the reinforcements, there is no value there. I can wait for those when I can buy them with CBills. By then, we can see which variants really stand out and see if there is any value to have those 2.

[Y E O N N E]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 March 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

Exactly. Why does the PHX get to be special in this regard?

Although there is a good reason for the Locust, it would break the game engine if it had a higher cap.

It would break the engine maybe. Have they actually tried 'Mechs going 180+? Have they tried it recently with all of the most up-to-date networking fixes?

I don't buy the party line put for by PGI on anything.

[Ted Wayz]

nehebkau, on 03 March 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

<sigh> The fact that the OP even asked this makes me shudder.


@OP
THEY ARE NOT REAL MECHS. THEY DO NOT TAKE MORE MATERIALS TO MAKE. A 100 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING TAKES THE SAME EFFORT TO MAKE AS A 25 T MECH COMPUTER DRAWING.

If the goal of selling mech packs is to recover the cost of creating those mechs, then they should be near the same price.

<sigh>

OMG, someone broke the code!

Now can you explain this using smaller words for the "I want 10% off" crowd?

theta123, on 03 March 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

I have my kodiaks now cheap i dont wanna see price increases!

No, you payed a premium for early access for items that will cost less or be free in the future.

[Navid A1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Much as I tend to get accused of white knighting, I would like to know myself. Perhaps if they added an extra variant, but as is?

Also still feel the collectors should be $10 upgrade, not $20. And should be a token letting you choose which variant you want to be the "special" model. (1 time only, selected like one does faction content)

Likewise, IMO, theUltimate Pack should come at like a 10% discount, or have extra stuff added to make it more appealing.

Holy moly...
I could not believe this was bishop's post.

Agreed a million times.

Edited by Navid A1, 03 March 2016 - 08:22 PM.

[Zordicron]

I dunno, I look at it like this-

This new pack, say you order it right now. Not the hero or special or whatever, just the base $20 for 3 mechs entry.

3 mechs(duh)
30 days premium time
6.5 million c-bills
a 6 million dollar radar derp module, plus some other module I forget which
some other stuff, warhorn and assorted blah

Now, IMO, it could be a freegin LOLocust, and it might still be worth it based solely on all the extra shite you get! Now, that is dependant on if you actually have a use for the aforementioned shite, but afaik most people kinda like radar derp modules and c-bills.

So, I would establish the base pack, being preordered, is worth it regardless of the mechs in it based solely on the preorder bonus shite.


Now, are the hero mechs worth the extra price? Debatable, especially as an unknown(will the mech actually be good, will the specific hero variants be good) see also : would you preorder a Pretty Baby for the same cost as Misery? how bout a Firebrand, or an Arrow, or an IVFour? Knowing is half the battle. What we can say about the hero add ons is if they are priced "over" their tonnage, and then add no significant preorder bonus(or any) why not just wait till they release and go on sale? BECAUSE YOU WANT THE SHINY NOW. A similar thing could be said for the collectors edition.

Now, as to the Kodiak price point? Lets look at the established rule: the 20 dollar basic pack, preordered, is always worth it. Given that, comparing the prices of the two mechs is irrelevant, in the mindset that the smaller one should cost less- the smaller one is already worth it. If anything the Kodiak should have cost more if you want to look at some kind of scaled price for some reason.

Bottom line, if you didn;t look at the Kodiak pre order and realise just how rediculous the deal was that is on you. 100 ton clan mechs with 400XL engines +preorder stuff? It was cheaper then buying c-bill MC bundles. And not by just a little. Even now without preorder goodies, the Kodiak bundles are worth their price in simple grind time reduction.

So I would say it isn;t a matter of "how come the PHX is not less expensive" but more "how come I didn;t realize how stupid awesome the Kodiak price point was?" Doesn't anyone remember the Boarshead price when it released?

I mean, I dunno, I would quit bitchin' before the next assault mech preorder costs $120. If you don;t think the $20 preorders are worth it, pfft, keep on FTP grinding, the rest of us will get 20 million in c-bills worth of **** for preorder then. If you don;t think the hero/etc add ons are worth it? KK, you must not be interested enough in that particular chassis, and thats fine, some people are. Cause thats what the add on price points are- I WANT SHINY NOW price points.

At the end of the day, there may be flaws with PGI's mech prices, but the preorder packs aren;t where I would complain about it.

[Ted Wayz]

Navid A1, on 03 March 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

Holy moly...
I could not believe this was bishop's post.

Agreed a million times.

Do you really believe there should be a 10% discount? Sounds great but let's break it down.

As pointed out making a 45 ton mech takes as much effort on PGIs part as a 100 ton. So you are asking for 10% off because of what? It doesn't cost PGI 10% less to make a 45 ton mech. So that logic seems a bit flawed. Especially when it has been made clear all you are buying is early access.

The Ultimate Pack is only there because people have complained about having to do more than one mouse click to buy everything. It is not a "bundle" it is a convenience. The fact that certain people do not understand that just shows how out of touch they are with the community.

Now the last two packs have offered two extra standard variants for $15. This is interesting. As of late PGI forced you to buy c-bill mechs to get the hero mechs but to ask $15 to buy two mechs that will cost c-bills as an add-on? They must be laughing if you buy that. Once the base model is done these are throw ins so this is free money for PGI. Asking them to lower the cost of the reinforcement pack, now that actually does make sense.

And the token idea? PGI has already stated they have issues with skinning mechs due how they designed the mechs. This is why we do not have a plethora of skins and will have to settle for decals. But by all means if you have Twitter ask PGI why they don't create a skin that can be applied instead of skinning a single variant. Also a token would be a new "feature" so they will have to program that. But hey, PGI has unlimited resources that never compete, right?

In the end you are trying to take revenue, albeit not much, from a company that needs revenue. How about instead you urge them to develop new revenue streams so they can lower the cost of mech packs and do not have to keep raising prices to compensate for reduced sales?

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

It's a simple enough problem to solve from a marketing perspective.

Take 20M C-Bills. Subtract the C-Bill value of the 'Mech and include the remainder as a "Tonnage Adjustment Bonus" in the packs sold for real money. Do that for each variant that the pack includes (so it scales up with price point).

This would be in addition to early adopter rewards.

Since C-Bills cost nothing to the company (being a fake, in-game currency and all) there's no loss for PGI and there is a value-added gain to the consumer.

Solved. Next problem!

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 03 March 2016 - 07:34 PM.

[Navid A1]

Ted Wayz, on 03 March 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Do you really believe there should be a 10% discount? Sounds great but let's break it down.

As pointed out making a 45 ton mech takes as much effort on PGIs part as a 100 ton. So you are asking for 10% off because of what? It doesn't cost PGI 10% less to make a 45 ton mech. So that logic seems a bit flawed. Especially when it has been made clear all you are buying is early access.

The Ultimate Pack is only there because people have complained about having to do more than one mouse click to buy everything. It is not a "bundle" it is a convenience. The fact that certain people do not understand that just shows how out of touch they are with the community.

Now the last two packs have offered two extra standard variants for $15. This is interesting. As of late PGI forced you to buy c-bill mechs to get the hero mechs but to ask $15 to buy two mechs that will cost c-bills as an add-on? They must be laughing if you buy that. Once the base model is done these are throw ins so this is free money for PGI. Asking them to lower the cost of the reinforcement pack, now that actually does make sense.

And the token idea? PGI has already stated they have issues with skinning mechs due how they designed the mechs. This is why we do not have a plethora of skins and will have to settle for decals. But by all means if you have Twitter ask PGI why they don't create a skin that can be applied instead of skinning a single variant. Also a token would be a new "feature" so they will have to program that. But hey, PGI has unlimited resources that never compete, right?

In the end you are trying to take revenue, albeit not much, from a company that needs revenue. How about instead you urge them to develop new revenue streams so they can lower the cost of mech packs and do not have to keep raising prices to compensate for reduced sales?

I was not going to highlight that discount portion.

I was only agreeing with the possibility to choose your special version.

You say that token special variant needs resources and dev time so it can't be done, and at the same you say they need to include more features and more revenue options which DO NEED dev time and resources.... so which is it?
Ability to choose your special variant would mean more sales for them.

I'm not arguing about its priority, maybe its just a very basic thing and has a low priority on the list. But, lets face it, The number of mechs in this game are only increasing every year. So they need to think of something very soon.