92 replies to this topic

[Realizer]

I agree with the others that Resistance 2, and IIC packs were done the best way. You get more mechs for the money, you get cbill variants, you get premium time, an extra variant for early reward, and faction packs with various mc items. Those are honestly the only 2 packs I'd consider fair. I feel for the people who had to spend so much for the Clan Wave 1 pack, if that pack were $150 total they would have sold way more, had a broader appeal and there would probably be more people still playing today. I've worked in Marketing departments for many large online companies, and there's a reason Hulu, and Netflix are $7.99, instead of $14.99. Sure there are a lot of people who would buy in at $14.99, but so many more people buy in at $7.99 they end up making more money at the lower price, than they could ever hope to make at the higher one.

Whoever is deciding the prices, needs to seriously re-evaluate if they hope to keep customers from Steam. I can assure you CS:GO makes more money on cheap skins than they do $100+ skins.

[Kyynele]

Realizer, on 03 March 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Whoever is deciding the prices, needs to seriously re-evaluate if they hope to keep customers from Steam. I can assure you CS:GO makes more money on cheap skins than they do $100+ skins.

MWO is a niche game, because it's a pretty hardcore robot fighting simulator. It's never going to be a game for the masses. Niche games have to be monetized differently than mass market games in order to be profitable. All your examples are mass products, and they truly make their profits through sheer volume.

MWO exists because there are enough people in a small segment willing to pay rather large sums of monies to keep playing the game. Selling lots of stuff cheaper would make less money, because the game appeals only to limited audiences, no matter how good or cheap it is.

I used to sell my soul to a F2P games company, and had to sit through several boring studies about how different genres and different degrees of casual/core should be viably monetized. PGI may have it's problems, but their monetization is done pretty much by the book.

And that doesn't mean I'm happy with the prices, as a customer.

[ilikerice]

While I agree that the ultimate pack is overpriced, and should include way more extras at the $85 dollar price point, I'm a bit confused at people questioning the $20 dollar price for the base package.

It's ALWAYS been $20 dollars for 3 Battlemechs.

"complain complain.... this single mech pack is too expensive"

Go all the way back to the Phoenix package... look at that.... $20 dollars for 3 lolcusts

Urbanmech?
Jenner IIC?
Wolf hound?
Panther?
Kodiak?
Archer?
Marauder?
Rifleman?
Warhammer?

All of them

3 Battlemechs for $20

The real problem is the add-ons

I got 6 mechs for an additional 20 bucks with the Phoenix pack reinforcement, but I am only getting 2 phoenix hawk mechs with the phoenix hawk reinforcements.

So, lets get this straight.

$20 is 3 battlemechs.. always has been.

$30 is 3 onmimechs....

Simple

[Sandpit]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 03 March 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Who is our community manager and what do they do?

The fact that you don't know speaks volumes to what I've been saying. When was the last time anyone saw the community manager actually participate in the community here...?

[Realizer]

Kyynele, on 03 March 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

MWO is a niche game, because it's a pretty hardcore robot fighting simulator. It's never going to be a game for the masses. Niche games have to be monetized differently than mass market games in order to be profitable. All your examples are mass products, and they truly make their profits through sheer volume.

MWO exists because there are enough people in a small segment willing to pay rather large sums of monies to keep playing the game. Selling lots of stuff cheaper would make less money, because the game appeals only to limited audiences, no matter how good or cheap it is.

I used to sell my soul to a F2P games company, and had to sit through several boring studies about how different genres and different degrees of casual/core should be viably monetized. PGI may have it's problems, but their monetization is done pretty much by the book.

And that doesn't mean I'm happy with the prices, as a customer.

The amount of steam players who installed in Dec. proves that it is an interesting and appealing title, but you need to have a payment model that does not drive away people with small monthly gaming budgets. It may never be the size of CS:GO, I'm not saying it will be, but the current model is far from being monetarily optimized. They are bleeding potential customers due to price instead of game function. Don't let price be the reason people don't stay, is all I'm saying. If they try the game and don't like it based on gameplay, okay that's valid, but when people who would otherwise enjoy the game, quit due to price you have a problem.

[Sandpit]

Realizer, on 03 March 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

The amount of steam players who installed in Dec. proves that it is an interesting and appealing title, but you need to have a payment model that does not drive away people with small monthly gaming budgets. It may never be the size of CS:GO, I'm not saying it will be, but the current model is far from being monetarily optimized. They are bleeding potential customers due to price instead of game function. Don't let price be the reason people don't stay, is all I'm saying. If they try the game and don't like it based on gameplay, okay that's valid, but when people who would otherwise enjoy the game, quit due to price you have a problem.

I fail to see how $20 for 3 mechs and all the other goodies isn't a decent pricing model?

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

I fail to see how $20 for 3 mechs and all the other goodies isn't a decent pricing model?

I dont think the problem is the $20 for 3 mechs. I think the problem people have is the ultimate package being the same as buying everything piecemail.

I personally am definatelly buying the collectors basic package plus the reinforcements. And I would buy the ultimate package if it gave more then buying everything piecemail. Heck anything as an add bonus or being cheaper. (Like an extra warhorn, or a an extra paint color... Something extra...)

[Realizer]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

I fail to see how $20 for 3 mechs and all the other goodies isn't a decent pricing model?

Because the sales model makes zero sense. Most of the $20 packs are for light mechs, unless you're an IS player and want the classic packs. The only portion that does make sense, is currently mastery packs. It's obvious there is no true method to pricing the other packs, they just price things at whatever they feel like at any given moment. The options for the $20 packs are limited to play style. Why on earth would an assault player want to be forced to buy light mechs for some packs and not others. Why is ala carte even an option without price scaling? It's pretty obvious to me, they announced high prices initially and a certain amount of people bought in, and they figured wow, guess we can charge them whatever the hell we want. The current system makes sense for a beta platform, but as a released product it just feels under-developed.

If they had any sense of truly growing a business, they would adjust their sales model to incorporate a broader appeal, after having the base funds needed to get the game launched. I'd be willing to bet, that if during the steam launch they had a solid price tier system that actually made sense; while having synergy with weight scales just like Cbills, they would have kept many more players. You only get one chance to make a good impression.

Edit: For another example, with the kodiak pack for $50 you can get 600 tons worth of mech goodness without buying the $40 pack for the "special variant". With the Phoenix Hawk pack for $65 you get only 315 tons worth of mech without buying the $40 dollar "special variant" also. This makes zero sense. For the Resistance 2 pack only $60 gets you 480 tons of mechs and much more freedom of playstyle. Same with the Origins IIC, the value is slowly creeping in the wrong direction on the single mech packs; with the Kodiak as the only possible exception.

Edited by Realizer, 03 March 2016 - 07:58 PM.

[Ano]

Appogee, on 03 March 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Such an extravagant cash grab - $85 for 8 versions of a single Mech - is so patently greedy that it actually put me off even buying the cheapest $20 package.

I don't begrudge PGI making money. I have supported MWO to the tune of more than $1K to date. I'd be happy to keep supporting them.

I nearly wrote this the other day about the Kodiak pack, but I'm really struggling with the pricing for the Kodiak and especially the PH. And let's not forget, it's not 8 versions of a mech -- it's 7 versions of a mech, with an extra copy of one. If that variant ends up being useful for you, something you'd want 2 of for a dropdeck or somesuch, then great. If not, it's not much help.

As a comparison, the last two multi-mech packs I bought cost $80 each, which included 16 mechs (4 variants per weight class), plus the usual bundle of premium time, cockpit items, colours, camos etc. 4 of those mechs had the 30% bonus Cbills attribute. $70 for 6+1 variants of the same mech (kodiak) or $85 for 7+1 variants of the same mech (phoenix hawk) seems a little out of proportion.

If I'd only wanted the lights and mediums from the multi-mech packs, I could have paid $40 for 8 mechs, which would have included two cbill-enhancing variants. By comparison, for all of the single mech releases, $40 gets you 3+1 variants.

I'm with Appogee on the 'PGI should make money' front, and I've probably spent $750+ myself, so it's not like I'm particularly parsimonious. This, however, feels incredibly exploitative of those players who have a real fondness for the older mechs.

[Ano]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

I fail to see how $20 for 3 mechs and all the other goodies isn't a decent pricing model?

It's not bad, compared to the first tier of any of the $20/tier multimech packs like Resistance or Origins. The first tier of resistance, for example, didn't give any premium time, but you did get a +Cbills mech and a "faction pack" which included camo and colours.

After that, its gets a bit wobbly though. The $40 pack adds a copy of ONE of the first 3 mechs with +Cbills, and more warhorns/premium time. Another $15 gets you two more variants; Another $15 gets you another +Cbills mech, with a custom camo. That's a progressively worse deal in my opinion.

Ozealot, on 03 March 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

To the matter of the new package price I'd like to throw in that I actually think it's fair being in line with the established price model because it's an unseen/reseen Mech with everybody knowing they had probably additional costs at getting a deal/agreement with Harmony Gold and not passing these down? Well that's but an assumption, isn't it.

I'm not sure that's the case, though -- didn't Russ say that they had taken some advice and that they thought their redesigns would put them free and clear of HG, and they'd be prepared to fight HG if necessary? If I'm remembering correctly, I can't see how any of the cost could be attributed to deals with HG.

Realizer, on 03 March 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

Edit: For another example, with the kodiak pack for $50 you can get 600 tons worth of mech goodness without buying the $40 pack for the "special variant". With the Phoenix Hawk pack for $65 you get only 315 tons worth of mech without buying the $40 dollar "special variant" also. This makes zero sense. For the Resistance 2 pack only $60 gets you 480 tons of mechs and much more freedom of playstyle. Same with the Origins IIC, the value is slowly creeping in the wrong direction on the single mech packs; with the Kodiak as the only possible exception.

While I agree that the value of the single mech packs is definitely on the wrong track, I don't think tonnes/$ is a useful metric at all. That's a little like assessing the value of a movie based solely on how long it is (rather than how *good* it is, our how much you like it).

[Realizer]

Ano, on 03 March 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

It's not bad, compared to the first tier of any of the $20/tier multimech packs like Resistance or Origins. The first tier of resistance, for example, didn't give any premium time, but you did get a +Cbills mech and a "faction pack" which included camo and colours.

After that, its gets a bit wobbly though. The $40 pack adds a copy of ONE of the first 3 mechs with +Cbills, and more warhorns/premium time. Another $15 gets you two more variants; Another $15 gets you another +Cbills mech, with a custom camo. That's a progressively worse deal in my opinion.



I'm not sure that's the case, though -- didn't Russ say that they had taken some advice and that they thought their redesigns would put them free and clear of HG, and they'd be prepared to fight HG if necessary? If I'm remembering correctly, I can't see how any of the cost could be attributed to deals with HG.



While I agree that the value of the single mech packs is definitely on the wrong track, I don't think tonnes/$ is a useful metric at all. That's a little like assessing the value of a movie based solely on how long it is (rather than how *good* it is, our how much you like it).

Yes, but movie prices are basically uniform with an exception for multimedia packs that contain directors edits ect. The two don't equate, with mechs we are dealing with more variables. We also have a price system (Cbills) that is varying upon weight class.

Why shouldn't cash be the same way, and why shouldn't the system build more implied value. Such as 10$ base packs for lights $15 for medium $20 for heavies and $25 for assaults. With full packs costing around $60 for 4 classes of mechs and their respective variants.

At those prices I'm fairly certain it would be more appealing to new comers, and retain spenders at a better rate as well. Ultimately giving them and steady income that has a chance to grow it's base, not eventually stagnating due to people being fed up with paying almost $100 maybe more per month for the latest goodies.

[RAM]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

There's absolutely no point in calling it an "ultimate" anything, it's the exact same thing as buying them all individually lol

RAM good to see you around again!

Well I do lurk regularly although I only login these days in order to make purchases However, I guess I am taking point on the Phoenix Hawk ‘Special’ being the Special Phoenix Hawk, so I will be around for a while yet!

Hopefully we can get Bishop to re-tweet:
https://twitter.com/...386186160758784

That said, notwithstanding my PXH campaign, the Ultimate Pack should definitely have been cheaper and/or included ‘something’. The various faction camos would have been an awesome and much appreciated addition!

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

As far as marketing goes, let me (maybe if they'll bother reading for once) show PGI what a real marketing manager would do.

Tshirts: Hello PGI, you keep claiming you don't have the rights to market mechs and stuff like that, but last time I checked you own a brand and logo outside of mechs. It's called your company. You have a logo right?

Coffee cups: see above

Dog Tags: Player's name, rank, and favorite mech type and unit or faction affiliation

Cockpit item replicas: Hello, keychains, hanging items for xmas trees and rear view mirrors

Artbooks: You don't own the rights to market mechs but you own the artwork, put together a book of Alex's art, it would get gobbled up

The kicker is that they already have many of these things:

I have plenty of PGI/MWO clothing from the various launch events: shirts, scarves and a very Canadian toque!

They had mugs at their office and, while not a book per se, all the various MWO art hang on the walls

Hell even Harebrained Schemes is doing dog tags!


RAM
ELH

[CtrlAltWheee]

I prefer this way of mech pricing over the old way.

The 4 mech packs were good except if you didn't want one or two or three mechs before the assault.

This way I pay for exactly what I want. In this case, I spend $20 and get the c-bills and other goodies.

[ColdPsyker1]

Ozealot, on 03 March 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

I think she was grouped up with devs and community members doing drops while streaming them on twitch in the very moment you posted that insightful attempt at incitement. But you weren't interested in that bit of info I guess? Were you?

To those of us who don't have a Twitter account, that doesn't really matter-we get left out in the rain.

[Sandpit]

Ozealot, on 03 March 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

I think she was grouped up with devs and community members doing drops while streaming them on twitch in the very moment you posted that insightful attempt at incitement. But you weren't interested in that bit of info I guess? Were you?

which has to do what with here?
I'm sorry, I must have missed her announcement on here that they were streaming.
oh wait, no I didn't because it didn't happen.

I must have missed the newsletter...
oh wait...

I must have missed the community posts on the forums...
oh wait...

I must have missed...
oh wait...

I also fail to see how anything you quoted in that post of mine would imply I wasn't interested in it. If you'd bother to read, instead of assuming you're going to discover some hidden motivation, you might realize that a player on the forums mind you had no idea who the CM is.

Oh, and those streams?
They're private matches with other devs, not public matches.

I'm pointing out that PGI needs to get off its butt in the community managing and building areas and have, oh I don't know, maybe the person paid to manage the community communicate within the community?

Help those of us trying to help organize the community?
Help promote the websites and TS servers available to free to players? (Promoting doesn't involve a 4 year old sticky thread)
The players run more giveaway promotions than PGI does, what does that say?

Those player run giveaways? Not once have I EVER seen ANYone from PGI promote those on their feeds or in game or on the forums or within the community. Ever. Period (Well unless your name is NGNG)

But you keep thinking I'm being "mean". It's not "mean", it's the truth, it's feedback to PGI letting them know that they have customers out here who feel like PGI could care less about their community.

Russ went into a lot of information regarding info on one of the mode modifications coming up. It was great info. I asked him if he was going to post it on the forums. I got a one word reply. "no"

If you and those like you would quit trying to make things like what I said into something they're not, you might actually understand that every single thing I've suggested would do nothing BUT help PGI improve their marketing, advertising, popularity, build a stronger community of more loyal customers, and improve MWO overall.

Instead, you try to get snarky and act like I'm trying to paint an inaccurate image of how PGI treats the community here.

[Sandpit]

RAM, on 03 March 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

The kicker is that they already have many of these things:

I have plenty of PGI/MWO clothing from the various launch events: shirts, scarves and a very Canadian toque!

They had mugs at their office and, while not a book per se, all the various MWO art hang on the walls

Hell even Harebrained Schemes is doing dog tags!


RAM
ELH

I know

That's what I just don't get. It's also why anyone who's ever been in marketing, advertising, owned their own business, etc. can take one look at their marketing strategies and understand they aren't marketing people. They're game devs. They would REALLY do well to hire someone who knows how to do that. They're very limited in their thinking when it comes to merchandising. They could plaster their MWO logos on any and everything they want and sell it.

They could sell all kinds of items that would do nothing but increase revenue streams. When you say something like that though, they get offended and indignant like you just insulted them personally instead of taking it as constructive criticism. Then you get some of the "gems" here on the forums that do the same thing in "defense" of PGI.

I just don't get it.

[stuh42l]

I really want the phoenix hawk.

However, My Resistance 2 Package,for 80$, came with:


20 Mechs (4 of which are "hero")
20 Mech Bays
2 Months Premium
15ish colors
15is Cockpit items
Unique and "stuck" camo patterns.

Bunch of other little stuff.

Compared to this bundle, its not even a comparison.

[rook]

For some reason, I think there was some advertisement specifically targeted at me with the hanging cockpit times...

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I'd do it if it made all the Hawks give me the cbill boost and unlocked the collectors skin for all of them.

As is, I'm getting the $20 pack, the reinforcements, and I might consider getting the Hero with missiles since it actually adds something different unlike the other one.

[Metus regem]

As I know I stated before, not sure if it was in here or not, but if you are out side of the US, the Ultimate pack actually makes a little bit of sense, as you only get hit once for the conversion premium charged by Xsolla, rather than 4 times if you get everything...