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Proposed Changes To Lrm


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Poll: Proposed Changes To Lrm (12 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you support implementing these or similar changes to how LRM functions?

  1. Yes, it would improve being on both sides of a LRM attack (7 votes [58.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.33%

  2. No, LRM should not change, it works like it should (4 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  3. No, It would make LRM too powerful (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. No, it would make LRM too weak (1 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

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#1 2fast2stompy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:58 AM

Here are some changes that I believe would, used together, make LRM not only respectable weapons, but also lessen the rage they induce in some people due to LRM45 Atlases standing two squares behind the front lines and similar occurrences.
These were probably all brought up before, because we already have a similar system in Streak SRM.

Please read the entire post to get the complete picture of the proposed changes, as taken out of context, these can make LRM appear either severely OP or literally useless.


1. Separate direct and indirect fire mechanics


Indirect fire (No line of sight, lock held by a teammate)
The weapon functions as it does now, spraying ineffectually over a mech's position, not really taking the 'mech itself into account.


Direct fire (Line of sight to the target, you hold your own lock, or through NARC/UAV)
Without changing the flight mechanic, individual missiles in a cluster/stream actually lock on to different components. Provided that the lock isn't lost (radar dep, ECM, etc), the targeted 'mech doesn't find cover and is not protected by AMS, all missiles hit, though still spreading the damage over the entire 'mech, similarly to Streak SRM.

So, if an Atlas is standing in the open, with no AMS, ECM, or possible cover, and is hit with a single direct fire LRM20, X of those 20 missiles will hit the left arm, Y the right arm, etc.


2. Change the way the LRM-related systems work


NARC and UAV would make LRM function as if the attacker had LoS. NARC might need a duration reduction. (Tag laser doesn't provide the perk, and serves to counter ECM.)


AMS should be significantly more effective at shooting down missiles. I'm not sure about the math, but I think a single AMS should at least be able to nullify a single LRM5.

For example, if you are shot by a LRM20, a single AMS would shoot down 5 of the 20 missiles.
If you are shot by chainfired 3xLRM5, it should shoot down 7-8.

C-LRM would be more susceptible to AMS because it travels in streams instead of clusters. I think 7-8 missiles shot down from a LRM20, or somewhere around that number.

Thus, a 'mech with 3 AMS would be a significant detriment to LRM, and a team of 12 AMS would completely nullify a single LRM boat.



Expected results


Implemented together, I think these changes would affect the game in several ways:

- It would encourage people to actually lock on their targets themselves, lessening the number of people standing behind in 100 ton 'mechs, shooting at targets 900m away.

- It would encourage people to use LRM in a more stock/lore fashion, taking 1-2 LRM as support for their standard, direct fire weapons. This would give more variety to builds, and make builds more versatile.

-It would make ECM more tactically important, especially on bigger 'mechs, like the Atlas or Hellbringer

-It would massively improve NARC

-It would make AMS and LRM20 something worth using

In my mind, this would make LRM more suitable to being carried as support weapons, to suppress enemies engaging your team while you close the distance, and to add damage while actually firing at them with lasers and stuff, especially if PGI comes through and steers the game away from alpha peeking with the new heat system.

You could still sit at spawn in your Stalker and chuck missiles at enemies you can't see, but for a team with a couple of AMS, you may as well not exist.


Please give your opinions on the matter, and suggest better solutions if you have them.
I am aware the weapons themselves might need to be adjusted for tonnage/heat/slots/ammo to balance them, but let's focus on the gameplay/mechanics part and assume those are a given.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 03 March 2016 - 02:14 AM.


#2 VinJade

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

you do know in lore they have actual missile support units yes?
Archers, Stalkers, ect.

and any mech can be configured to be a missile support unit like the Atlas.
It is the clans that hate missile support as they find it dishonorable(Which is why they rarely use Arty mechs) and why their missiles are always so under stocked in terms of ammunition(iirc as being why).

Also from the old lvl 1 days LRMs could lock on targets behind walls and hills, their to hit numbers went sky high though, however as it stands this game has nothing to do with lore so I think the way it is in terms of lock on is fine, they just need to make the war heads a tad more powerful seeing as the play has so many ways of avoiding LRM damage.

#3 2fast2stompy

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 11:39 AM

View PostVinJade, on 04 March 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

you do know in lore they have actual missile support units yes?
Archers, Stalkers, ect.

And? Did you miss the part where you can still use indirect fire the same as now?
No one is proposing stopping you from using LRM for "missile support". It's right there, the first sentence of the first point. LRM functions exactly as it does now, when fired without LoS or UAV/NARC lock. The point is to actually broaden the viability of LRM, not stop you from shooting over hills.

Also, "in the lore", AMS/LAMS is actually a working, functional countermeasure to LRM.

View PostVinJade, on 04 March 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

It is the clans that hate missile support as they find it dishonorable(Which is why they rarely use Arty mechs) and why their missiles are always so under stocked in terms of ammunition(iirc as being why).

Do me a favor and open TRO3050, and see how often LRM is found on Clan 'mechs. And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

View PostVinJade, on 04 March 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

and any mech can be configured to be a missile support unit like the Atlas.

You can configure an Atlas as an ECM NARC+Tag scout, too. Please stick to discussing the mechanics outlined in the OP and/or their alternatives.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 04 March 2016 - 11:40 AM.


#4 VinJade

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 11:54 AM

I guess I am just jaded when it comes to LRMs and sometimes tunnel vision is involved, which I do apologize.

as to my earlier statement about clans and missile systems, I never said they didn't use them, seeing as they have the Mad Dog & Timber Wolf for example with twin LRMs(terribly low ammo bays however). the point to this is that I couldn't help but feel that you was looking at this from an actual anti-LRM side or clans and their views of what is dishonor.

Again that's what I took from it because of my tunnel Vision(many get this when it comes to topics such this and makes it hard to read past that) and I did reread it, I just don't think any good would come of this because some might see it over powered and those that do will whine and cry and b**** even more than they do and what will happen is that LRMs might be raked over the coals and ruined.

though one more thing that is off topic, when Lyrans are concerned I can see them using an Atlas as a scout mech, lol(old BT joke).

Edited by VinJade, 04 March 2016 - 11:55 AM.


#5 2fast2stompy

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 12:22 PM

Ironically, your first statement applies to me as well, and I am sorry if I came off as aggressive.

I do like LRM (not the way they are in MWO, admittedly), and I really would like them to be usable on builds more in line with the lore itself.

We currently have a situation where AMS is completely ignored by most players at tier 3 and above (because it does nothing), LRM are scoffed at, and even when people use them, they never use LRM20 because it does absolutely nothing that LRM5 through LRM15 don't do better.
IMO, increasing the damage per missile or making the clusters tighter is not a good approach, because it encourages borderline non-participation by boats, and would be instant doom to the likes of King Crabs and Direwolves, which are already vulnerable to LRM. Spreading the damage (in direct fire) like stated in the OP would, I believe, better the weapon system without falling into the same trap. It would also actually improve boats, so long as they cooperate with scouts, while providing some means of defense from LRM.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 04 March 2016 - 12:34 PM.


#6 VinJade

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 12:32 PM

I do agree though that something needs to be done to improve them but I fear that the only thing that would result of them tinkering with the missiles is that they will just screw them up and some how weaken them even more.

#7 EurakaLi

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 07:15 PM

View Post2fast2stompy, on 03 March 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Here are some changes that I believe would, used together, make LRM not only respectable weapons, but also lessen the rage they induce in some people due to LRM45 Atlases standing two squares behind the front lines and similar occurrences.
These were probably all brought up before, because we already have a similar system in Streak SRM.

Please read the entire post to get the complete picture of the proposed changes, as taken out of context, these can make LRM appear either severely OP or literally useless.


1. Separate direct and indirect fire mechanics


Indirect fire (No line of sight, lock held by a teammate)
The weapon functions as it does now, spraying ineffectually over a mech's position, not really taking the 'mech itself into account.


Direct fire (Line of sight to the target, you hold your own lock, or through NARC/UAV)
Without changing the flight mechanic, individual missiles in a cluster/stream actually lock on to different components. Provided that the lock isn't lost (radar dep, ECM, etc), the targeted 'mech doesn't find cover and is not protected by AMS, all missiles hit, though still spreading the damage over the entire 'mech, similarly to Streak SRM.



there are some problem on the direct -indirect fire,I currently running tempest and doing the rabbit dance(I so call myself)
basically just move between cover and lock enemy in the open gap (since i got ecm i can run a bit slower sometime ) ,I generally finish my lock in between cover and shoot my LRM inside cover ,or turn my mech looking up sky for better angle,I mixing tag and uav support on the way...
also sometime just face tank in open area to take the lock and torso twisting and firing lrm (I will not have the LOS of enemy but I was still having the lock on him as lock as I return the lock on him very fast those lrm will hit
on the other hand I will torso twisting due to someone hitting me and I was locking/locked and shooting someone else who I might/might not have LOS but I want to kill it first.
and a lot of map you can have LOS /part of LOS of enemy mech but direct firing will hit stuff

support buffing the lrm a bit ,especially the speed and spread....

#8 VinJade

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:06 PM

I agree EL.
they need to buff the speed & spread but mainly for clanners as you guys got screwed a bit compared to IS counter parts.





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