66 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

+1 for knockdowns

now that TTK is 1/10th of what it was, there is no excuse for letting someone get that close

[TexAce]

I declared knockdowns dead a long time ago. I really dont think they will ever re-introduce it.

It shares a grave with Convergence, Atlas' glowing eyes, predator heat vision and the Flea.

Edited by TexAce, 05 March 2016 - 06:04 PM.

[Konrad]

Needs to be added back in. Needs to be added properly.

[eminus]

one thing I don't like about the implementation of collision now is that you get teleported and it disorients you

[cazidin]

Konrad, on 10 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Needs to be added back in. Needs to be added properly.

And will be exploited.

[Konrad]

cazidin, on 10 March 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

And will be exploited.

Please re-read the thread in it's entirety.


Small things travelling fast crashing into large things needs recourse, period. This is silly as hell.

[Damia Savon]

Eidelon, on 05 March 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

When are Knockdowns/Collisions going to be added back into the game?
It used to be and has been with previous games that if you ran into something bigger than you, you fell down. Why has this not been put back in? Years ago when we were testing this you guys said you were only removing it for a temporary fix, and here we are several years later with light pilots running into the legs of assault mechs and suffering nothing for it. Can we please get this back into the game?

Knockdowns are not coming back into the game until PGI moves to a new engine, if ever. Paul was asked about it during one of the Dev drop streams and said "Nope". Knockdowns caused far too many issues to make it worth the hassle to PGI. If a new engine can handle knockdowns so people don't teleport, fall through the world and all the other stuff and, I'll assume, be fairly easy to code then perhaps but for the foreseeable future it is not going to happen.

[Lugh]

Damia Savon, on 15 March 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Knockdowns are not coming back into the game until PGI moves to a new engine, if ever. Paul was asked about it during one of the Dev drop streams and said "Nope". Knockdowns caused far too many issues to make it worth the hassle to PGI. If a new engine can handle knockdowns so people don't teleport, fall through the world and all the other stuff and, I'll assume, be fairly easy to code then perhaps but for the foreseeable future it is not going to happen.

It's got nothing to do with the hassle of programing the engine. They can stand trees back up after they've fallen down again, they can stand up mechs.

Paul is still amazingly EMO hurt of the treatment he got by Kong and others knocking him down for 10 minutes straight. He then decided it wasn't fun. His inside the box brain couldn't fathom how to handle it in the game engine he has, and it really does come down to doing a little bit of animation work, so that the mech doesn't fall on it's side in a manner that 'confuses' the movement physics when it's standing back up.

Knockdown would need to be tracked frame by frame as the mech curls its legs and arms in to a protection stance, from which it would then stand up straight without issue. Each mech safe inside its own little 'movement' box that would become sacrosanct until such time as it fully regained it's feet. They are ALREADY doing what they need to do with knockdowns with the server side HSR mechanics to track mech movements for ballistics, lasers, missiles.

Edited by Lugh, 15 March 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Anakha]

Would love to see Knockdowns back! There was nothing better than ramming a light and knocking it down and your team destroying it. Also it would make light pilots be more careful and thoughtful. Right now they can run in and ram whatever they want without a care in the world. Having a light run into you at 130+ and watching it fall over would be epic!

[McBrahman]

Konrad, on 15 March 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Small things travelling fast crashing into large things needs recourse, period. This is silly as hell.

http://www.walter-fe...ollision_en.htm
inelastic (mostly)
jenner: 35000kg, min. 27m/s
atlas: 100000kg, 0 m/s

Small things travelling fast crashing into large things will smash large things down, period.

And as far as i know light pilots they dont like to ran into something, because that makes them slow. they hate it.

To prevent other Mechs from entering your comfort zone they could ad a big screen shake (2sec.) at contacts to the mech with the higher speed in its forward direction.

[Konrad]

If a bus hits a smart car guess what happens? The smart car gets wrecked.

Anakha, on 15 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Would love to see Knockdowns back! There was nothing better than ramming a light and knocking it down and your team destroying it. Also it would make light pilots be more careful and thoughtful. Right now they can run in and ram whatever they want without a care in the world. Having a light run into you at 130+ and watching it fall over would be epic!

Finally someone that gets it. Reading some of the responses here makes me sad to also be of the same species.

[McBrahman]

Konrad, on 16 March 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

If a bus hits a smart car guess what happens? The smart car gets wrecked. Finally someone that gets it. Reading some of the responses here makes me sad to also be of the same species.

Konrad, this is about physiks and not about magic by will.

What i posted is a simplifikation to give you a non hollywood idea of live. Its without center of mass, momentum or friktion etc.

If 2 things hit echother its primaly a question of impulse if or what will be 'knockt back'.
And its Impulse [I] = mass [m] * speed [v], to let it bee simple.

You in a brawl with a heavy (70 to, 40kmh), me in a light (35to, 120kmh), then my I is bigger than your I.

If you will (ever) bee finished with getting the solution of this formula, you should start thinking of center of mass positions.
My center of mass is were the grass grows. Yours is where the birds rest in the trees.
The question to you is, how much friktion do your feeds need from the gravel they stand on, to prevent you from getting a very bad momentum and avoid a bride smile of mine.

To help you a bit with a non math example:
What if: You (100kg) havent seen your girlfriend(50kg) for a looong time and you meet again - exitet.
She running full speed(20kmh) and you walking (laysie 5kmh) - and no one is breaking bevor hit.

Will she be knocked back?
If not, who is on top afterwards?
Was it a nice evening?
And how tall should girlfriends be in generall to avoid a bad momentum?????
Or is it possible to have a smaler girlfriend when your shoos have size 45 and above?!!!


man, man, man,....this is getting far to serious

[Clownwarlord]

Well here is the reason. It apparently would take them (PGI) a long time to work out how collision should work out. Once they figure that out, then you will have knockdown and some other features added ... like melee. But because it will take really long PGI hasn't touched it with a ten foot pole.

[Konrad]

Oh course there is impact on both sides. No one said there isn't. Slamming into 100 tons at 80kph in 30tons is going to move the 100tons. But the 30 tons is gonna get messed up way worse. Again. Bus vs Smartcar.

I am aware of how physics works. Please re-read the whole thread.

clownwarlord, on 17 March 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Well here is the reason. It apparently would take them (PGI) a long time to work out how collision should work out. Once they figure that out, then you will have knockdown and some other features added ... like melee. But because it will take really long PGI hasn't touched it with a ten foot pole.

You should install the sandbox and play with the soft body models. It's not that difficult to do. The attributes already are present.

[MechB Kotare]

I'd love to see a knockdown upon leg crit/destruction ala MW3 style.

[Bilbo]

MechB Kotare, on 18 March 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'd love to see a knockdown upon leg crit/destruction ala MW3 style.

I would too, and the forum QQ would be glorious. They already had to remove the slowdown from taking more damage to a "destroyed" leg. Think of the rage that would be induced by making a mech a stationary target for any period of time.

[Damia Savon]

Lugh, on 15 March 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

It's got nothing to do with the hassle of programing the engine. They can stand trees back up after they've fallen down again, they can stand up mechs.

Paul is still amazingly EMO hurt of the treatment he got by Kong and others knocking him down for 10 minutes straight. He then decided it wasn't fun. His inside the box brain couldn't fathom how to handle it in the game engine he has, and it really does come down to doing a little bit of animation work, so that the mech doesn't fall on it's side in a manner that 'confuses' the movement physics when it's standing back up.

Knockdown would need to be tracked frame by frame as the mech curls its legs and arms in to a protection stance, from which it would then stand up straight without issue. Each mech safe inside its own little 'movement' box that would become sacrosanct until such time as it fully regained it's feet. They are ALREADY doing what they need to do with knockdowns with the server side HSR mechanics to track mech movements for ballistics, lasers, missiles.

Nice to know you are a mind reader. Also great to know that you understand cry engines net code so well to know how easy it is. Since that is the case, just write up the necessary code and send it off. PGI will thank you I'm sure.

Of course Paul also mentioned the had already decided to remove knockdowns before that hilarious video was made.

[Adamski]

McBrahman, on 17 March 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

Konrad, this is about physiks and not about magic by will.

What i posted is a simplifikation to give you a non hollywood idea of live. Its without center of mass, momentum or friktion etc.

If 2 things hit echother its primaly a question of impulse if or what will be 'knockt back'.
And its Impulse [I] = mass [m] * speed [v], to let it bee simple.

You in a brawl with a heavy (70 to, 40kmh), me in a light (35to, 120kmh), then my I is bigger than your I.

If you will (ever) bee finished with getting the solution of this formula, you should start thinking of center of mass positions.
My center of mass is were the grass grows. Yours is where the birds rest in the trees.
The question to you is, how much friktion do your feeds need from the gravel they stand on, to prevent you from getting a very bad momentum and avoid a bride smile of mine.

The easy solution is to ignore the mass in the knockdown equation, and simply look at it from a momentum / lost momentum issue.

If you exceed your deceleration rate, then your mech loses its balance, and falls over.

To avoid getting knocked over, just walk slower, so that when a collision brings you to a stop, you don't exceed your deceleration rate.

[Konrad]

Yup, that sounds about right. Similar to MW3.

[cazidin]

Konrad, on 15 March 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Please re-read the thread in it's entirety.


Small things travelling fast crashing into large things needs recourse, period. This is silly as hell.

Since you asked nicely, sure thing! Would you kindly re-read my posts though? I think that you might've missed them. Basically, I suggested that if PGI re-implements knockdowns that it can be easily exploited again as they were before. Russ removed them because he didn't have a good old time with Dragon Bowling.

If knockdowns are ever re-implemented then perhaps a grace period of X seconds to prevent you from being knocked back down and a heavy C-Bill AND queue time penalty for knocking down allied mechs?