114 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

From Russ Twitter:
Cent just 1.7 oversized
Shadow hawk just 1.4% oversized

A sign that volume not necessarily is allways a measurement that leads to the right conclusion (bcs Volume is a not function that is independant from the Shape of a Mech and thus a Mech can very easy be way to big on 2 of the 3 Axes while having a pretty low Volume when its Body is shaped/build that way)

Both Shadow Hawk and Centurion are to tall/big imo compared to the almost perfect Haunchback Medium Mech as they match the size of way bigger Mechs.
Then Centurion needs to be more slim at least and the Shadow Hawk is a Medium in the Body of a Heavy.

They will even be worth less after rescaling when other Mechs become considerably smaller.


PS: What is the Volume of a Barndoor?

Edited by Thorqemada, 02 March 2016 - 10:12 PM.

[FupDup]

Meanwhile, he thinks that the Daishi is too big.

Lel.

[El Bandito]

I actually have less issue with Shadow Hawk's size and more issue with its piss-poor quirks/missile slots. Even pre-Clans, it was known to be an XL friendly Medium, something Griffins and Wolverines couldn't emulate.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 March 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Meanwhile, he thinks that the Daishi is too big.

Lel.

Look at it from the front, and then its side profile.

http://i.imgur.com/EjyzUXd.jpg



From a volumetric standpoint, being shaped almost like a cube, it is actually very large.

Edited by Ultimax, 02 March 2016 - 09:43 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

I guess the Centurion, Kintaro and Treb will still be easy kills in the foreseeable future then.

[FupDup]

Ultimax, on 02 March 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Look at it from the front, and then its side profile.

http://i.imgur.com/EjyzUXd.jpg

From a volumetric standpoint, being shaped almost like a cube, it is actually very large.

What's even larger than its size is its firepower.

Even after all of the cascading Clan nerfs have added up, there are plenty of assaults in worse condition than the Whale.

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

What's even larger than its size is its firepower.

Even after all of the cascading Clan nerfs have added up, there are plenty of assaults in worse condition than the Whale.

If the Daishi gets a rescale, they better rescale the Masakari at the same time, or else we're going to have a problem.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

What's even larger than its size is its firepower.

Even after all of the cascading Clan nerfs have added up, there are plenty of assaults in worse condition than the Whale.

But for all its firepower, the Whale is still a rather niche 'Mech due to its speed. You are better served filling your Assault slots with Executioners, Battlemasters, Maulers, and Banshees. Maybe Warhawks.

[zagibu]

I told you this would happen if they do strict volume based rescales. Volume has no ingame relevance.

But hey, whatever, they can later still slap quirks to the mechs with unfortunate shapes, right?

[Wintersdark]

El Bandito, on 02 March 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

I actually have less issue with Shadow Hawk's size and more issue with its piss-poor quirks/missile slots. Even pre-Clans, it was known to be an XL friendly Medium, something Griffins and Wolverines couldn't emulate.

Height isn't necessarily a negative; it's more a mixed bag. Particularly for the SHD and it's high torso mounts.

Just changes what you can use as cover, and what you can fire over (often including friendly mechs).

Height doesn't make you easier to hit: People pretty much never fire *over* mechs other than maybe a locust. If anything, more height just means less width/depth - and width/depth is what gets you.

And yes, a barn door is really bad face on (low volume, high width, low depth) but conversely when twisted it's EXTREMELY hard to hit.

But regardless, the SHD is hardly a barn door, and whatever you may say about the CN9, it's definitely tanky. It looks big, but it's thin and there's lots of air space. It's definitely not a barn door either.


With that said, keep in mind, they ARE remodelling a couple mechs (see: Awesome). I dunno if they'll actually fix anything, but at least they're doing that.

RestosIII, on 02 March 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

If the Daishi gets a rescale, they better rescale the Masakari at the same time, or else we're going to have a problem.

They are rescaling everything. Everything.

The Warhawk is 8% too large, IIRC - russ specifically mentioned it on Twitter - which makes it pretty high ranking in the "too big" department.

[Seal Farmer]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Meanwhile, he thinks that the Daishi is too big.

Lel.

i know right. wow

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Russ said the Grasshopper might need to get fatter.

Jesus christ, I will scream.

[Thorqemada]

If you face a Centurion leg it and then let it suffer - legging a Centurion is rather easy - disarming also if it has the Mainweapon in the Arm.

[Wintersdark]

Alistair Winter, on 02 March 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

I guess the Centurion, Kintaro and Treb will still be easy kills in the foreseeable future then.

Seriously, guys.

This method - volumetric scaling based on tonnage - is probably the BEST option we can have.

You know what the alternative is? Have you thought this through?

The realistic alternative is this:

PGI just starts rescaling mechs by hand to where they "feel" the mech should be.

Now stop and think about this for a minute.

Which do you think is going to get the most reliable, consistent results? Scaling the mechs by volume, or PGI hand-tuning each one?

Also keep in mind, which is most likely to be done? Automated rescaling, or hand-tuning? If PGI hand tunes, I absolutely garauntee this project will never, ever be finished.

At least this system, while imperfect in many ways, will create a logical end result, and I'd bet real money that it'll end up way, way better than any "How Big Paul Thinks The Mechs Should Be" scaling.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[RestosIII]

Wintersdark, on 02 March 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

Seriously, guys.

This method - volumetric scaling based on tonnage - is probably the BEST option we can have.

You know what the alternative is? Have you thought this through?

The realistic alternative is this:

PGI just starts rescaling mechs by hand to where they "feel" the mech should be.

Now stop and think about this for a minute.

Which do you think is going to get the most reliable, consistent results? Scaling the mechs by volume, or PGI hand-tuning each one?

Also keep in mind, which is most likely to be done? Automated rescaling, or hand-tuning? If PGI hand tunes, I absolutely garauntee this project will never, ever be finished.

At least this system, while imperfect in many ways, will create a logical end result, and I'd bet real money that it'll end up way, way better than any "How Big Paul Thinks The Mechs Should Be" scaling.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Quit telling horror stories. I need to be able to sleep tonight without having nightmares of Masakaris larger than Daishis, or Thors the size of an Atlas.

Edited by RestosIII, 02 March 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[Wintersdark]

RestosIII, on 02 March 2016 - 11:22 PM, said:

Quit telling horror stories. I need to be able to sleep tonight without having nightmares of Masakaris larger than Daishis, or Third the size of an Atlas.

This is what I think of whenever people complain about this. After all, this is procedural, it's ensuring things fit in terms of tonnage:volume. Is it perfect? No. But it is predictable and logical. Both being things PGI is not good at. I'll take what I can get in this instance, thanks.

[Sjorpha]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

What's even larger than its size is its firepower.

Even after all of the cascading Clan nerfs have added up, there are plenty of assaults in worse condition than the Whale.

As I understand it they are rescaling for the purpose of getting correct volumetric relations between all the models, not for balnace reasons.

I think they are right in this, scale should simply be correct volume for the tonnage, not a way to buff or nerf mechs.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 02 March 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

What's even larger than its size is its firepower.

Even after all of the cascading Clan nerfs have added up, there are plenty of assaults in worse condition than the Whale.

The Whale is broken because IS/Clan balance is broken, because quirks are no substitute for balance.

[TheCharlatan]

I think the Shadowhawk is fine. It's tall and slim, and tall is not a bad thing IMO (you can shoot at more stuff, and stuff can shoot more at you. Seems like a fair trade).
The Cent could use some slimming, but it's more an estetic thing that a gameplay one: it would look way better, but it already handles very well.

[jss78]

Volume vs. height. I'm not surprised the Shadow Hawk and Grasshopper aren't too far off in terms of volume. They're just tall and lanky and stand upright. By comparison the Crab isn't near as undersized as some people think, it's just essentially crouched into a ball.

Now the crouched (Crab) posture might be beneficial in an FPS environment vs. an upright posture (Shadow Hawk), are you present a much smaller target, but that's a whole another conversation and not a reason to rescale.