88 replies to this topic

[Kh0rn]

TheTipOfTheSpear, on 07 March 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well, I generally don't like a mech that's a generalist. Especially a atlas. Brawling is a atlas's forte and it's bread and butter. If you stop every now and then to pull off a few snipes with your lasers and shoot off a few lrms in a max 60kph mech, how long would it take to actually reach real combat? And with your slots taken up by lrms and lasers your trades are not nearly as heat efficient or as strong they can be. Again just my opinion, but I feel a atlas that's not brawling is a wasted atlas.

Most mechs in BT were generalists. Its how you expect most fighting machines to be. Even at 60 the Atlas is still to slow to move on most maps with out some kind of weapon to put enemies heads down to allow it to close into range. Yes a Atlas is a up close fighter but making it purely built for it with no way possible to fire at enemies at a long range while on the move is a dangerous thing to do. For your long range weapons you fire on the move you use them to soften up and keep enemy forces pinned so the return fire on you is less. but those builds Iv out gunned pure brawling Atlases by simple stripping off the torsos before they could get with in firing range. Then with no energy in the CT or arms I simply leave them. It has happen to me as well I had both torsos gone and the enemy left me cause they thought I was disarmed I shot him in the back an that was the final blow. For lighter faster mechs you can get away with not having ranged weapons cause you are fast enough to do it. Larger mechs such as the Direwolf , Atlas and Crab should focus around there main fighting zones but should carry a weapon incase being caught in the open. I will always max out the weapons on any mech bringing as much firepower to bear. Personally for me fitting a 350 engine is a waste for the damage potential of a Atlas. Rather focus on firepower and armor.

[TheTipOfTheSpear]

RangerGee412, on 07 March 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

I enjoy being in the front to lead the charge in both the Atlas and stalker. I don't play to survive, I plan on going in and soaking up and putting out as much damage as I possibly can.

Yeah, but the adrenaline shot from doing that 10 games in a row gets old. Trust me, I will still be the first one over the top for the Terra therma gates and the saddle top pushes. But not when everyone has a bead on your head as the first one over, it's means no damage and either a dead mech or badly injured one.

[Otto Cannon]

The people demanding that you die so that they can get some free shots in before hiding again wouldn't do the same for you, so don't be guilt tripped into early pointless suicide. You certainly should be a spearhead that the enemy find hard to kill quickly- but at the critical turning point in the match rather than too early when you'll be focused to death in seconds and completely waste your armour advantage.

Judge the moment for yourself as the experienced Atlas pilot, and make the most of your tonnage for you and your team. If the heavy pilots want to decide when the Atlas charges in, they should bring one themselves.

[TheTipOfTheSpear]

Kh0rn, on 07 March 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Most mechs in BT were generalists. Its how you expect most fighting machines to be. Even at 60 the Atlas is still to slow to move on most maps with out some kind of weapon to put enemies heads down to allow it to close into range. Yes a Atlas is a up close fighter but making it purely built for it with no way possible to fire at enemies at a long range while on the move is a dangerous thing to do. For your long range weapons you fire on the move you use them to soften up and keep enemy forces pinned so the return fire on you is less. but those builds Iv out gunned pure brawling Atlases by simple stripping off the torsos before they could get with in firing range. Then with no energy in the CT or arms I simply leave them. It has happen to me as well I had both torsos gone and the enemy left me cause they thought I was disarmed I shot him in the back an that was the final blow. For lighter faster mechs you can get away with not having ranged weapons cause you are fast enough to do it. Larger mechs such as the Direwolf , Atlas and Crab should focus around there main fighting zones but should carry a weapon incase being caught in the open. I will always max out the weapons on any mech bringing as much firepower to bear. Personally for me fitting a 350 engine is a waste for the damage potential of a Atlas. Rather focus on firepower and armor.

Well, for me, utilizing cover and torso twisting is how I get into cover and into brawling range. My side torsos on my atlas usually stay on with good shielding with those amazing arms protecting them until I get into range. I generally don't have a problem for closing unless I'm on polar scrublands or alpines. It may be just how you play your atlas, but I haven't had any problems closing or losing the side torsos to incoming fire. Which is one of the points why I wouldnt advocate taking lrms or large lasers on a atlas. Once again, just my own respectable opinion and j can see where your coming from.

Otto Cannon, on 07 March 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

The people demanding that you die so that they can get some free shots in before hiding again wouldn't do the same for you, so don't be guilt tripped into early pointless suicide. You certainly should be a spearhead that the enemy find hard to kill quickly- but at the critical turning point in the match rather than too early when you'll be focused to death in seconds and completely waste your armour advantage.

Judge the moment for yourself as the experienced Atlas pilot, and make the most of your tonnage for you and your team. If the heavy pilots want to decide when the Atlas charges in, they should bring one themselves.

Wow. Summed up my feelings exactly. Thank you mate!

[Kh0rn]

TheTipOfTheSpear, on 07 March 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

Well, for me, utilizing cover and torso twisting is how I get into cover and into brawling range. My side torsos on my atlas usually stay on with good shielding with those amazing arms protecting them until I get into range. I generally don't have a problem for closing unless I'm on polar scrublands or alpines. It may be just how you play your atlas, but I haven't had any problems closing or losing the side torsos to incoming fire. Which is one of the points why I wouldnt advocate taking lrms or large lasers on a atlas. Once again, just my own respectable opinion and j can see where your coming from.


Wow. Summed up my feelings exactly. Thank you mate!

I generally run the Atlas that way cause I play mechs on how they operate in cannon. Kinda something this game has moved away from. The Atlas load outs as you can see are generally build for brawling with the SRM's and AC but it has 1 or 2 multi range weapons so in case something does go wrong I am not a sitting duck. I guess you can see the play style is... Safe then sorry. But after looking at the cannon design it seems like MWO's model seems to switch things around in the cannon version it had larger arms and slimmer torsos but in the MWO its the other way around. Maybe making it have larger arms and slimming down its side torso's could potentially make it harder to kill.

[Metus regem]

SmoothCriminal, on 07 March 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

pretty sure "T" is all party chat...

That's the idea, let the red team shift to counter, leaving them open to a flanking....

[Sagamore]

Edit: Regular Atlas here.

Leading a charge with PUGs is likely the cause of your inconsistent results. I've led too many charges where only 2 teammates follow-up and we get slaughtered. On the flip side, the times that I've dropped with a group the Atlas train brings the pain.

In PUG land even if my team does win, its not fun to die early with 200-300 damage and a kill if I'm lucky. PUG players are largely playing for themselves. I would much rather let someone else lead the charge and end up with 3-4 kills and 800 damage. Being on top of the scoreboard is more rewarding.

So I suppose what we really need is a reward system that recognizes "tanking damage" or something along those lines.

Edited by Sagamore, 07 March 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[Malachy Karrde]

TheTipOfTheSpear, on 07 March 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well, I generally don't like a mech that's a generalist. Especially a atlas. Brawling is a atlas's forte and it's bread and butter. If you stop every now and then to pull off a few snipes with your lasers and shoot off a few lrms in a max 60kph mech, how long would it take to actually reach real combat? And with your slots taken up by lrms and lasers your trades are not nearly as heat efficient or as strong they can be. Again just my opinion, but I feel a atlas that's not brawling is a wasted atlas.

to brawl effectively, all your weapons don't need to be range neutered. And on many of the new maps or redone maps it can take forever and a day to make it to the battle. 270 meters is way too short for the new maps. If you can't reach out to 600, your going to be spending a lot of time not shooting. It's why I prefer the whale to the atlas...it's slightly slower (53 kph) but my uac 5s reach out to 600 meters, my lrms can reach out to 700 or so accurately if I'm careful, and my 6 er small lasers are devastating at close ranges... I 1 hit light mech with 1 burst from the uac paired by 1 burst from the lasers. Note that in my sweet spot at 200 meters my alpha is 70 points and uses about 25 percent of my heat. After that I stagger fire my weapon groups for the second or two it takes to put down anything. I don't torso twist because the dire isn't made to do that and frankly, I don't need to because nothing can get off more than a Shot or two. When I engage an enemy assault I'm pouring fire into them the whole way from 750 yards out until they get in range. An atlas with 270 meter range isn't going to be alive by the time he is in range of his ac20. I try to never engage them at point blank range...probably why I'm successful in the dire.

[TheTipOfTheSpear]

Sagamore, on 07 March 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Edit: Regular Atlas here.

Leading a charge with PUGs is likely the cause of your inconsistent results. I've led too many charges where only 2 teammates follow-up and we get slaughtered. On the flip side, the times that I've dropped with a group the Atlas train brings the pain.

In PUG land even if my team does win, its not fun to die early with 200-300 damage and a kill if I'm lucky. PUG players are largely playing for themselves. I would much rather let someone else lead the charge and end up with 3-4 kills and 800 damage. Being on top of the scoreboard is more rewarding.

So I suppose what we really need is a reward system that recognizes "tanking damage" or something along those lines.

If such a system was to be inplemented, I will gladly volunteer as tribute to lead such a charge. Yeah, leading a charge with pugs at your back isn't the most reassuring thing. Thus this post.

[Sagamore]

Malachy Karrde, on 07 March 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

to brawl effectively, all your weapons don't need to be range neutered. And on many of the new maps or redone maps it can take forever and a day to make it to the battle. 270 meters is way too short for the new maps. If you can't reach out to 600, your going to be spending a lot of time not shooting. It's why I prefer the whale to the atlas...it's slightly slower (53 kph) but my uac 5s reach out to 600 meters, my lrms can reach out to 700 or so accurately if I'm careful, and my 6 er small lasers are devastating at close ranges... I 1 hit light mech with 1 burst from the uac paired by 1 burst from the lasers. Note that in my sweet spot at 200 meters my alpha is 70 points and uses about 25 percent of my heat. After that I stagger fire my weapon groups for the second or two it takes to put down anything. I don't torso twist because the dire isn't made to do that and frankly, I don't need to because nothing can get off more than a Shot or two. When I engage an enemy assault I'm pouring fire into them the whole way from 750 yards out until they get in range. An atlas with 270 meter range isn't going to be alive by the time he is in range of his ac20. I try to never engage them at point blank range...probably why I'm successful in the dire.

This is apples and oranges though. No one expects a DWF to lead a charge. The playstyles of DWF and AS7 are quite different.

[TheTipOfTheSpear]

Malachy Karrde, on 07 March 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

to brawl effectively, all your weapons don't need to be range neutered. And on many of the new maps or redone maps it can take forever and a day to make it to the battle. 270 meters is way too short for the new maps. If you can't reach out to 600, your going to be spending a lot of time not shooting. It's why I prefer the whale to the atlas...it's slightly slower (53 kph) but my uac 5s reach out to 600 meters, my lrms can reach out to 700 or so accurately if I'm careful, and my 6 er small lasers are devastating at close ranges... I 1 hit light mech with 1 burst from the uac paired by 1 burst from the lasers. Note that in my sweet spot at 200 meters my alpha is 70 points and uses about 25 percent of my heat. After that I stagger fire my weapon groups for the second or two it takes to put down anything. I don't torso twist because the dire isn't made to do that and frankly, I don't need to because nothing can get off more than a Shot or two. When I engage an enemy assault I'm pouring fire into them the whole way from 750 yards out until they get in range. An atlas with 270 meter range isn't going to be alive by the time he is in range of his ac20. I try to never engage them at point blank range...probably why I'm successful in the dire.

Dakka wolf's are the only thing that I dare not to take on head on. No mech ingame can. Im thinkING about trying the direwolf, but I still don't feel as if it can tank as much as a atlas. As for the lrms, that is negated usually by good cover and ecm. I don't find lrms a problem personally in a atlas. If you ever see my play, you will see that I hug the terrain as hard as I can. That's lessons learned from playing World of Tanks. I mean yall think lrms are bad. Try having 90 percent of your health blasted away from halfway across the damn map in a SINGLE SHOT from World of tanks artillery.

[RangerGee412]

You cant tank very well in a direwolf, too easy to hit the CT or ST, you just out damage everything you face.
Atlas is more finesse vs just brute strength in a dire.

Edited by RangerGee412, 07 March 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Tap Dance

[Aetes Nakatomi]

The best games in my Atlas have always been the ones where the team seems to Nascar but they actually just engage and wait for the Assaults. That way when I get there I have a good idea of what to expect and where they are. I then deploy my brawl UAV as I push to the front. You can almost see the terror on the enemies faces, one moment they are trading shots with a HBK-4P the next my Fatlas is there smashing them with ACs and SRMs and it's CT just soaking their damage like they are shooting me with water pistols. Certainly my favourite Assault since the last balance pass.

[Thunder Child]

I expect mine to explode violently after I accidentally draw the attention of the entire enemy team due to being an Atlas.
That said, with the Structure Buffs and Crit Reduction that it received, I find they go toe to toe with most enemy Assaults and will come out on top.
The issue is you need to be vewy vewy sneeky, until you engage. Nothing worse than finally getting into the thick of it, with only a pair of CT medium lasers to your name.

[Namwons]

Never lead a spear charge against the enemy center, especially across open terrain early ingame. Better to try an keep moving around to enemy flanks before trying to charge them. Never try to be the first to expsose yourself in a push. Have the lights or striker mediums to draw first volley, then push. Your too slow and will get alpha'd by their whole team. If you have no choice but to charge the enemy center, ask your lights n strikers to pincer their flanks to distract and spit their firepower.

Dont listen to pugs who have never played slow assaults that just want to use you as their meat shield.

Always have backup in a push. Try to push the flanks before pushing the center. Try to coordinate a flanking distraction before you push. Being so slow, better to be second around the corner than the first.

[Brimbooze]

I just picked up the mastery pack and only got them all through the basic skill tier. What I found to be most effective with them was as a flanking attack. I try and branch off with a couple others (since someone usually follows the atlas) to come around the side while their focus is drawn by the main group. If an atlas and another assault and heavy/medium come around the side to flank that's usually enough to break their firing line. They're then left with the choice of being hammered from the side while they focus on the main group, or turn to focus down an atlas while the main group picks them apart.

This doesn't always work. Sometime I'm spotted before I can get into a good position and get ambushed/picked off, sometimes I turn the corner to early and get annihilated by their whole team, sometimes no one else breaks off with me even if I say my plan in chat. I've found that when you're patient and your team doesn't make bad decisions you'll go off and have a monster game. But if you get impatient and don't get into a good position, or your team abandons you/just kamikazes in, or you try and lead a charge into the main enemy firing line, you'll go out with only a few hundred damage.

[Pierce Rossignol]

Otto Cannon, on 07 March 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

The people demanding that you die so that they can get some free shots in before hiding again wouldn't do the same for you, so don't be guilt tripped into early pointless suicide. You certainly should be a spearhead that the enemy find hard to kill quickly- but at the critical turning point in the match rather than too early when you'll be focused to death in seconds and completely waste your armour advantage.

Judge the moment for yourself as the experienced Atlas pilot, and make the most of your tonnage for you and your team. If the heavy pilots want to decide when the Atlas charges in, they should bring one themselves.

This, right here.

I'm primarily an Atlas pilot, and have been for going-on 4 years. I still run my Founder's Atlas as my primary mech.

As Otto said above, the Atlas's function is to turn the tide of the fight. That doesn't always mean four-digit damage; it can be done in a number of ways.

The key to being a good Atlas pilot is patience. You need to pick your battles, you need to watch the whole fight unfold (I sometimes spend as much time watching my map as I do shooting), and you need to WAIT until you have the right opportunity to do the most good. This means not caving in to the other pilots who want to Leeeeroy Jenkins and are adamant that you come with them, or, as Otto said above, not getting guilt tripped into a pointless death.

You can be the tip of the spear. Sure. But if your lancemates depend on you to be a damage sponge, or don't flank you, or lose their nerve and wimp out, you're dead. Very quickly.

Avoid open terrain. Just avoid it. This is that patience thing, again. Hug walls, stay in valleys and behind rocks. Take the long way around and use cover, because you are a primary target the minute you pop up on someone's HUD. (Pro tip: You actually can hide an Atlas, and it's easier than you think.) Learn to read a map so that you can plot your routes to avoid fields of fire. The maps in MWO are excellent. Using terrain takes time, and patience. Being a good Atlas pilot takes maturity, finesse, relentless focus, the ability to think several moves ahead, and patience. Did I mention patience?

Given proper cover and defillade, you can flank an enemy group, drawing their fire (EVERYBODY shoots at a solo Atlas!) and letting your teammates rush their backs in a coordinated charge; this will get you killed with a lousy match score but it may win the match. This is part of being an Atlas pilot. Some games you're the bat, some games you're the ball.

You can move as the center of gravity for a lance of Assaults and Heavies. This is primarily how I play. The trick is convincing the others to slow down and move AROUND you; not behind you, not way out in front of you expecting supporting fire from 400 meters back. If they work with your limitations, you can lend them your strengths, and that's where the Atlas does best. I'm in an org for vets and current military, so we all understand this concept innately.

The Atlas D-DC is a hunter-killer without parallel. (Hellbringer pilots will argue this point, but compared to a fully-uparmored Atlas the Hellbringer, with its 320 points of armor, might as well be made of spun glass.) With a D-DC you can sneak up on the enemy in an urban environment and unload a 75-80 point alpha strike into his back; or better yet, use the ECM and terrain to move a 400-ton Assault lance into nut-kicking range without the badguys even noticing. The D-DC is the only Atlas that can operate solo and survive. I often run my D-DC with the Jaws theme playing in the background.

Lastly, the Atlas is most effective in a brawl, and excels at damaging other mechs even if it doesn't destroy them. In the middle of a furball, you should be shifting fire and pivoting and backpedaling (and hitting that Cool Shot button!), stripping components and armor from every enemy in sight, just moving from one to another. BLAM -- shift fire -- BLAM -- shift fire -- BLAM.... If you concentrate on one enemy in a fight for too long -- and it's easy to do when you're beating the bejeezus out of him -- the others will gang up on you. Like I said, everybody shoots at an Atlas. You may not get many (or sometimes any!) kills doing this, but you'll get a ton of assists, and by the time you go down in a smoking heap the little guys on your team should be able to coordinate fire on the most damaged enemy mechs and mop them up in order. The trick here is getting the team to communicate, triage, and focus fire. Again, in my unit this isn't a problem. In a PUG match, well, good luck.

Have fun. Welcome to the big leagues.

Edited by Pierce Rossignol, 07 March 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[JediPanther]

In slolo I let team mates always go first. You think being a founder I'd be an expert in the atlas but I find it to be one of my middle ground mechs. I do pretty good one match with 4 kills and 600 or so damage then end up being first one dead 100 dmg the next match.

The atlas doesn't have speed or range to keep up with the faster mechs so let them find the enemy and engage. Take up beside them and go for the enemy they are going for. Try and find the other "slow' assults or heavies and stay near them to focus fire and spread damage. Try avoiding 'trades" with eniemes. To be stealthy in an atlas requires the enemy to have their attention on another mech allowing you to get into the best possible position for maximum damage out put with the littlest amount of return fire.

I find a mix build works best. The one I use one the D is two er large lasers for when you need the extreme range, two srm 6 paied with two med lasers for close range, and two uac 5's on chain fire. The chain uacs will let you have dps dealing damage while the enemy focuses your bal torso which most will generaly fire at first. Use the ers and 20 for general moving and attacking. Let loose the 6s and med lasers for close range and as for armor punching.

If you got the cbills adding the 360 tracking module will let you track lights that try the circle of death. Er and ac 20 off their legs to disable them or force them to disengage. Any smart light pilot will always disengane when he knows it's only the legs that are being hit on. As a light pilot i always watch for the ones who aim for my legs and disengage asap. The increced gyro mod will reduce screen shake from the daka whales. They hope the constant fire and screen shake makes it harder for you to shoot back; this mod makes so you can.

[TheTipOfTheSpear]

Pierce Rossignol, on 07 March 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

This, right here.

I'm primarily an Atlas pilot, and have been for going-on 4 years. I still run my Founder's Atlas as my primary mech.

As Otto said above, the Atlas's function is to turn the tide of the fight. That doesn't always mean four-digit damage; it can be done in a number of ways.

The key to being a good Atlas pilot is patience. You need to pick your battles, you need to watch the whole fight unfold (I sometimes spend as much time watching my map as I do shooting), and you need to WAIT until you have the right opportunity to do the most good. This means not caving in to the other pilots who want to Leeeeroy Jenkins and are adamant that you come with them, or, as Otto said above, not getting guilt tripped into a pointless death.

You can be the tip of the spear. Sure. But if your lancemates depend on you to be a damage sponge, or don't flank you, or lose their nerve and wimp out, you're dead. Very quickly.

Avoid open terrain. Just avoid it. This is that patience thing, again. Hug walls, stay in valleys and behind rocks. Take the long way around and use cover, because you are a primary target the minute you pop up on someone's HUD. (Pro tip: You actually can hide an Atlas, and it's easier than you think.) Learn to read a map so that you can plot your routes to avoid fields of fire. The maps in MWO are excellent. Using terrain takes time, and patience. Being a good Atlas pilot takes maturity, finesse, relentless focus, the ability to think several moves ahead, and patience. Did I mention patience?

Given proper cover and defillade, you can flank an enemy group, drawing their fire (EVERYBODY shoots at a solo Atlas!) and letting your teammates rush their backs in a coordinated charge; this will get you killed with a lousy match score but it may win the match. This is part of being an Atlas pilot. Some games you're the bat, some games you're the ball.

You can move as the center of gravity for a lance of Assaults and Heavies. This is primarily how I play. The trick is convincing the others to slow down and move AROUND you; not behind you, not way out in front of you expecting supporting fire from 400 meters back. If they work with your limitations, you can lend them your strengths, and that's where the Atlas does best. I'm in an org for vets and current military, so we all understand this concept innately.

The Atlas D-DC is a hunter-killer without parallel. (Hellbringer pilots will argue this point, but compared to a fully-uparmored Atlas the Hellbringer, with its 320 points of armor, might as well be made of spun glass.) With a D-DC you can sneak up on the enemy in an urban environment and unload a 75-80 point alpha strike into his back; or better yet, use the ECM and terrain to move a 400-ton Assault lance into nut-kicking range without the badguys even noticing. The D-DC is the only Atlas that can operate solo and survive. I often run my D-DC with the Jaws theme playing in the background.

Lastly, the Atlas is most effective in a brawl, and excels at damaging other mechs even if it doesn't destroy them. In the middle of a furball, you should be shifting fire and pivoting and backpedaling (and hitting that Cool Shot button!), stripping components and armor from every enemy in sight, just moving from one to another. BLAM -- shift fire -- BLAM -- shift fire -- BLAM.... If you concentrate on one enemy in a fight for too long -- and it's easy to do when you're beating the bejeezus out of him -- the others will gang up on you. Like I said, everybody shoots at an Atlas. You may not get many (or sometimes any!) kills doing this, but you'll get a ton of assists, and by the time you go down in a smoking heap the little guys on your team should be able to coordinate fire on the most damaged enemy mechs and mop them up in order. The trick here is getting the team to communicate, triage, and focus fire. Again, in my unit this isn't a problem. In a PUG match, well, good luck.

Have fun. Welcome to the big leagues.

Holy cow. Much love for this extensive guide you wrote. Yeah patience defiently is key. A atlas in the early where everyone is bunched up is a dead atlas the moment it chargaes. Preserve hp and hunt. It's mighty fun.