32 replies to this topic

[Sazabi Steppenwulfe]

..isn't smart money PGI. at least keep it going until the mech's ship date. can'tr wait to hear the logic behind this

[eminus]

Steppenwulf, on 08 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

..isn't smart money PGI. at least keep it going until the mech's ship date. can'tr wait to hear the logic behind this

Please don't make them become like Star Citizen because they are almost becoming like it

[GreyNovember]

Steppenwulf, on 08 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

..isn't smart money PGI. at least keep it going until the mech's ship date. can'tr wait to hear the logic behind this

Isn't it?

People still buy them. They are therefore effective in getting income within the given period. Create artificial scarcity. ( Call something "Premium". Make "Only" 75 Golden TBRs.) Demand increases as a result.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Steppenwulf, on 08 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

..isn't smart money PGI. at least keep it going until the mech's ship date. can'tr wait to hear the logic behind this

GreyNovember, on 08 March 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Isn't it?

People still buy them. They are therefore effective in getting income within the given period. Create artificial scarcity. ( Call something "Premium". Make "Only" 75 Golden TBRs.) Demand increases as a result.

Nope, it is a bad decision. The removal of early adoptor rewards takes about 20-25 million C-Bills worth of value from the packages, rendering them a "poor buy" based on this game's high prices.

I was going to buy the Archer pack in January, but they had already pulled the rewards from the pack by then, so I did not buy them. Goi g to skip those Mechs because PGI punished me for not buying g it in December. I spent $80 on stuff in December and couldn't throw another batch of cash at the game then, come January they devalued the package.

It's not Artificial Scarcity. It's a threat to buy it now, or get ripped off buying it later.

It's the same exact technique used by the Penguin insulated winow salesmen that came to my house when I wanted a bid quote on new vinyl windows. They said "you can buy it right now, this instant, at this price, or if you wait until tomorrow them we'll have to charge this [much higher] price.".

When I had them verify that he wasn't joking, I told him to get out of my house immediately.

[Lostdragon]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Nope, it is a bad decision. The removal of early adoptor rewards takes about 20-25 million C-Bills worth of value from the packages, rendering them a "poor buy" based on this game's high prices.

I was going to buy the Archer pack in January, but they had already pulled the rewards from the pack by then, so I did not buy them. Goi g to skip those Mechs because PGI punished me for not buying g it in December. I spent $80 on stuff in December and couldn't throw another batch of cash at the game then, come January they devalued the package.

It's not Artificial Scarcity. It's a threat to buy it now, or get ripped off buying it later.

It's the same exact technique used by the Penguin insulated winow salesmen that came to my house when I wanted a bid quote on new vinyl windows. They said "you can buy it right now, this instant, at this price, or if you wait until tomorrow them we'll have to charge this [much higher] price.".

When I had them verify that he wasn't joking, I told him to get out of my house immediately.

I didn't buy a IIC pack because the early adopter rewards expired and the early adopter mechs were some of the main ones I wanted.

[Repasy Cooper]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Nope, it is a bad decision. The removal of early adoptor rewards takes about 20-25 million C-Bills worth of value from the packages, rendering them a "poor buy" based on this game's high prices.

I was going to buy the Archer pack in January, but they had already pulled the rewards from the pack by then, so I did not buy them. Goi g to skip those Mechs because PGI punished me for not buying g it in December. I spent $80 on stuff in December and couldn't throw another batch of cash at the game then, come January they devalued the package.

It's not Artificial Scarcity. It's a threat to buy it now, or get ripped off buying it later.

It's the same exact technique used by the Penguin insulated winow salesmen that came to my house when I wanted a bid quote on new vinyl windows. They said "you can buy it right now, this instant, at this price, or if you wait until tomorrow them we'll have to charge this [much higher] price.".

When I had them verify that he wasn't joking, I told him to get out of my house immediately.

You were never going to buy the Archer pack. They give people a whole month of time to decide whether they want the early adopter bonus for their purchase. If you didn't buy it then, you have already subconciously decided not to purchase it at all.

And as for people who perhaps only found out about a new mech purchase after the adopter bonus has expired, now they have learned that it pays off to pay more attention to the game, more frequently. They are not only increasing demand through artificial scarcity, they are also giving players a reason to keep themselves up to date with the game. That's how you build an interested & dedicated player base. Keeping early adopter bonuses available for longer increases player complacency in this regard, and that contributes to a less interested & dedicated player base, which has driven games into the ground pretty quickly.

[Durant Carlyle]

You're just bringing this up now?

There have been Early Adopter Rewards with expiration before package release for a year now, and before that there were monthly rewards that also expired before package release.

They don't have to explain or justify anything. It's working. That's explanation/justification enough.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 08 March 2016 - 01:06 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

You were never going to buy the Archer pack. They give people a whole month of time to decide whether they want the early adopter bonus for their purchase. If you didn't buy it then, you have already subconciously decided not to purchase it at all.

And as for people who perhaps only found out about a new mech purchase after the adopter bonus has expired, now they have learned that it pays off to pay more attention to the game, more frequently. They are not only increasing demand through artificial scarcity, they are also giving players a reason to keep themselves up to date with the game. That's how you build an interested & dedicated player base. Keeping early adopter bonuses available for longer increases player complacency in this regard, and that contributes to a less interested & dedicated player base, which has driven games into the ground pretty quickly.

Liar.

I was going to buy it. I just spent $80 in December on a year's premium time and extra MC and didn't want to throw more money at it until January. Come January, the pack was devalued by 20 million C-Bills. That is why I did not buy in January.

You have lost Credibility by lying about me.

Durant Carlyle, on 08 March 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

You're just bringing this up now?

There have been Early Adopter Rewards with expiration before package release for a year now, and before that there were monthly rewards that also expired before package release.

They don't have to explain or justify anything. It's working. That's explanation/justification enough.

You know why it's being brought up now? PGI doesn't post when they removed the Early Adoptor Rewards after they were removed. It leaves people wondering when they were removed.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 March 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Zerberus]

Steppenwulf, on 08 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

..isn't smart money PGI. at least keep it going until the mech's ship date. can'tr wait to hear the logic behind this

The logic is simple, and is used in every industry today. It´s the most basic presale-marketing principle you will ever learn in school.

Preorder = Preorder.

Early preorder = bonuses, one for the added trust an early preorder implies, and 2 to get pmore eople to buy early so you have an idea of how much cashflow the entire sale will generate. This helps you to make semi-accurate projections about your revenue.

Do you call the Waltion family and complain every time you miss a sale on tampons?

Why this is even a topic among grown adults is entirely beyond me. You missed the early adopter reward, deal with it. I didn´t have the cash for Founder´s at the time, but have I EVER in the history of the forum bitched and moaned about it? NO, becasue I have a properly functioning pair and fully understand the phrase "Suck it up and get on with your life".

This is nothing more than childish entitlement running wild. Nothing to see here, folks.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 March 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

You know why it's being brought up now? PGI doesn't post when they removed the Early Adoptor Rewards after they were removed. It leaves people wondering when they were removed.

You mean you think they don't post the expiration dates for the Early Adopter Rewards?

Look at the FAQs. Each package has one. They have all kinds of useful information, including when Early Adopter Rewards end. You can still look that info up today for past packages.

[Repasy Cooper]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Liar.

I was going to buy it. I just spent $80 in December on a year's premium time and extra MC and didn't want to throw more money at it until January. Come January, the pack was devalued by 20 million C-Bills. That is why I did not buy in January.

You have lost Credibility by lying about me.

I guess I was wrong then. You consciously made a decision not to purchase the pack. Now you are whining because the early adopter bonus can't be extended for you. It's not PGI's fault. They have not lied about anything, they are perfectly clear as to what the early adopter bonuses are and how long they are eligible. You knew that come January the pack would be devalued and you still did not purchase early. How is that anyone's fault but your own?

FYI the Penguin glass salesman was not doing anything wrong either. Have you ever seen flash sales on Steam? It's the exact same thing! A lot of people are more likely to purchase something sooner if they are given something in return, such as a reduced fee or bonuses, etc. This is marketing 101 cupcake. You may see it as a threat, but most people see it as an opportunity.

[LordNothing]

there does kind of need to be a second tier rewards tier for preorders, even if its just 3 mill cbills.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Zerberus, on 08 March 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

The logic is simple, and is used in every industry today. It´s the most basic presale-marketing principle you will ever learn in school.

Preorder = Preorder.

Early preorder = bonuses, one for the added trust an early preorder implies, and 2 to get pmore eople to buy early so you have an idea of how much cashflow the entire sale will generate. This helps you to make semi-accurate projections about your revenue.

Do you call the Waltion family and complain every time you miss a sale on tampons?

Why this is even a topic among grown adults is entirely beyond me. You missed the early adopter reward, deal with it. I didn´t have the cash for Founder´s at the time, but have I EVER in the history of the forum bitched and moaned about it? NO, becasue I have a properly functioning pair.,

This is nothing more than childish entitlement running wild. Nothing to see here, folks.

There is a difference bwletween "entitlement" and "complaining that the prices are too high after removing the special rewards." THAT is really what this boils down to. Removing 20+ Million CBills' value from the package makes the residual pack a POOR VALUE.

They are charging the cost of a whole darn videogame for a MechPack; even with the early adoptor rewards that is pretty steep. And they, PGI Marketing, are thinking it is still a good deal after removing A FULL THIRD of the package value.

No, this is not my complaint about entitlement. This is my complaint about PGI trying to rip-me-off with overprced content. The Early Adoptor Rewards make the packs eek-in at what I call an acceptable price.

Removal of the rewards makes the packs a rip-off (I.e. over-priced, not worth the money, gouged, etc.).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 March 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[Zerberus]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

there does kind of need to be a second tier rewards tier for preorders, even if its just 3 mill cbills.

^^ They used to have staggered preorder rewards, dependent on when exactly you preorderd you would get more items tahn someone who preorderd later.

Looking at this thread, I can only assume they learned their lesson and stopped that, most likely due to the headaches from constant QQ about being 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-.... days late.

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

There is a difference bwletween "entitlement" and "complaining that the prices are too high after removing the special rewards." THAT is really what this boils down to. Removing 20+ Million CBills' value from the package makes the residual pack a POOR VALUE.

They are charging the cost of a whole darn videogame for a MechPack; even with the early adoptor rewards that is pretty steep. And they, PGI Marketing, are thinking it is still a good deal after removing A FULL THIRD of the package value.

No, this is not my complaint about entitlement. This is my complaint about PGI trying to rip-me-off with overprced content. The Early Adoptor Rewards make the packs eek-in at what I call an acceptable price.

Removal of the rewards makes the packs a rip-off (I.e. over-priced, not worth the money, gouged, etc.).

Just for the record PP, the statement about entitlement was directed at the quoted post, not you, but I assume you already knew that *raises beer stein*

BUT; still: Why didn´t you (by which I mean all people that have a gripe about early adopter being over, no you in specific) buy it while you still could? You were all informed of the early adopter rewards just like everyone else, and actively decided against the purchase, for reasons that neither I nor any company in the world will ever care about.

I couldn´t afford a Kodiak pack while EA was open, am I complaining about it? No. Will I still buy one, primarily becasue I want the mechs and don´t want to wait til 2017 to get them? **** yeah.

You had your chance, the same chance as everyone else, and you blew it. "Deal with it" is the only advice I can give without jumping through mental hoops that will give my therapist 6 months of work.

I´ve heard of Buyers Remorse and Seller´s remorrse, but I think we´ve discovered a new version: "Non-Customer´s Remorse"... Don´t interpret that wrong, it´s blatantly obvious that you have and will likely continue to spend money in some way.... But at this time, with regards to this pack, you are de facto not a paying customer, for whatever reasons. And that is entirely within your rights, just as it is to think that non-preorder-bonus purchases are overpriced.

But it doesn´t change the fact that the flight didn´t depart early, you just didn´t get to the airport on time becasue you felt something else was more important. What that was is irrelevant, becasue he plane is still gone and no amount of arguing will change that.

BTW, I don´t know (or care) where you live, but her ein W. Europe I can not get a new videogame of any respectable quality for less than 40$US, 60-70$US is standard if we are assuming AAA retail version and not a beta.

The mech packs on the other hand start at 20 bucks. That is a THIRD of that, half at best.

Extreme exaggeration never helped anyone´s argument, but it does a lot to undermine one

Edited by Zerberus, 08 March 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[LordNothing]

the way it is now if you miss the pre order period, at that point you might as well wait and see if the new pack is doa before dropping any money. there simply is no reason to preorder if you miss early adopters deadline, and that is a missed opportunity to sell. later on when the mech comes out and doa threads pop up like daisies, and people with a was of cash say, nah i think i will buy beer instead. missed opportunity.

you dont have to do full adopters rewards for late comers but at least give them a reason to pony up now instead of after they know what they are getting.

[WarHippy]

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

You were never going to buy the Archer pack. They give people a whole month of time to decide whether they want the early adopter bonus for their purchase. If you didn't buy it then, you have already subconciously decided not to purchase it at all.

I'm sorry, but that is a lot of absurd nonsense. I'm mean come on you honestly believe that he didn't want the pack because he didn't buy it in December? A month that he had already spent money on the game, and a time of year when cash for a lot of people is often spread thin due to the holidays. In addition they don't always give us an entire month to decide. They give you until the end of the month it is announced, and during some of the earlier early adopter packs they ended up extending the window because they only gave us roughly a week.

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

And as for people who perhaps only found out about a new mech purchase after the adopter bonus has expired, now they have learned that it pays off to pay more attention to the game, more frequently. They are not only increasing demand through artificial scarcity, they are also giving players a reason to keep themselves up to date with the game. That's how you build an interested & dedicated player base. Keeping early adopter bonuses available for longer increases player complacency in this regard, and that contributes to a less interested & dedicated player base, which has driven games into the ground pretty quickly.

I don't agree with pretty much any of this. If you buy something before it is released then you are an early adopter period. I can go on Steam and buy a game 1 minute before midnight for a game that becomes available at midnight and still get pre-order/early adopter bonuses. That is something I have done on several occasions. The incentive to buy things early on are those extra perks, and as soon as they are gone there is no hurry to buy it right away or heck you could just wait for a sale. There is no valid reason to remove early adopter rewards before the mech is released.

Edited by WarHippy, 08 March 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

WarHippy, on 08 March 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but that is a lot of absurd nonsense. I'm mean come on you honestly believe that he didn't want the pack because he didn't buy it in December? A month that he had already spent money on the game, and a time of year when cash for a lot of people is often spread thin due to the holidays. In addition they don't always give us an entire month to decide. They give you until the end of the month it is announced, and during some of the earlier early adopter packs they ended up extending the window because they only have us roughly a week.

Yea, so that's basically whining to PGI because he doesn't have enough money. Again, not PGI's problem, just bs entitlement. Boo hoo, so he can't have the extra vanity, boo hoo, so he has to grind some more C-bills for the modules. Whatever.

WarHippy, on 08 March 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

I don't agree with pretty much any of this. If you buy something before it is released then you are an early adopter period. I can go on Steam and buy a game 1 minute before midnight for a game that becomes available at midnight and still get pre-order/early adopter bonuses. That is something I have done on several occasions. The incentive to buy things early on are those extra perks, and as soon as they are gone there is no hurry to buy it right away or heck you could just wait for a sale. There is no valid reason to remove early adopter rewards before the mech is released.

You forget about the OTHER early adopter bonus that never expires: early access to the mech in gameplay. You get to play the mech months before anyone else can even purchase one with MC. Is that not a nice bonus?

You are not penalizing someone for removing limited-time bonuses. That's not how reality works.

Edited by Repasy, 08 March 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[TamCoan]

I got the archer package in December because of the early adopter awards. I thought about waiting for c-bills but it looked good and I couldn't pass up the bonus stuff. I knew that I had to get it before the end of December so I chose to do so.

I did not get the rifleman package regardless of bonus stuff. I knew that if I still want those mechs than I can either wait for c-bills or purchase them and miss out on the bonus stuff.

Both were my choices, I don't blame anyone or feel that I should get a bonus later because I passed on it earlier in the year. Demanding free stuff when it was clearly outlined just sounds like entitlement. That's my opinion, I know others do not feel that way.

[WarHippy]

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yea, so that's basically whining to PGI because he doesn't have enough money. Again, not PGI's problem, just bs entitlement. Boo hoo, so he can't have the extra vanity, boo hoo, so he has to grind some more C-bills for the modules. Whatever.

Call it whatever you want, but if you buy something before it is available you are an early adopter be it this game or anywhere/anything else. Those extra items give additional value to an unknown quality of purchase. As someone a few posts back stated without those extras there is no reason to buy the pack at all until it as been released to the early adopters so you can see the real value of the pack.
As an additional note the Archer pack went on sale December 16th and the early adopter ended on the 31st. Two weeks does not equal a month to think about it in particular give the time of year this occurred.

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

You forget about the OTHER early adopter bonus that never expires: early access to the mech in gameplay. You get to play the mech months before anyone else can even purchase one with MC. Is that not a nice bonus?

Is it a nice bonus? Sure, but it isn't the only reason someone might purchase one of these packs. Heck, there are a surprising number of people that do buy these packs and then don't touch them for weeks after they are released until the numbers of that particular mech playing in every match are diminished. For some people early access to the mech is all that matters, but that is certainly not the case for everyone, and for those that don't care about that the other extras carry a great deal more value.

*edit* Another thought on the early access to the mechs. I can still buy those packs now that they are released for the early adopters and still get them before they are available for c-bills/MC while having the benefit of seeing the quirks and how the mechs perform. Depending on how you look at things having early access to the mechs really doesn't hold a lot of value when compared to being able to make a fully informed choice to buy the pack or not.

Repasy, on 08 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

You are not penalizing someone for removing limited-time bonuses. That's not how reality works.

I never said it was penalizing someone only that there is no valid reason to remove early adopter rewards before packs are released. It isn't in PGI's best interest to limit potential purchases to a 2-3 week window and then wait for the rest of purchases if they occur at all further down the line.

Edited by WarHippy, 08 March 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Zerberus, on 08 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

BTW, I don´t know (or care) where you live, but her ein W. Europe I can not get a new videogame of any respectable quality for less than 40$US, 60-70$US is standard if we are assuming AAA retail version and not a beta.

The mech packs on the other hand start at 20 bucks. That is a THIRD of that, half at best.

Extreme exaggeration never helped anyone´s argument, but it does a lot to undermine one

I agree with the above person, and you still get schwag with the pack. The deal is to give you an incentive to buy now. It is not the default value of the pack.

If the preorder modules stayed until the time of MC release how many new players would have access those goods very quickly. PGI has specifically tried to separate modules from P2W. So if you want to get them as schwag expect a painful long wait.

Does loudly complaining about prices really work for anybody?