7 replies to this topic

[God Particle]

Sorry in advance for this sure to be unpopular suggestion, but it strikes me after several years of playing this game that part of the issue with adapting it from tabletop is the extreme accuracy afforded by it, way more than any other shooter out there.

If you think about it, there is no recoil, no cone of fire, no windage effects or variability in bullet drop. These are probably the main reason we struggle with time-to-kill issues (as I have heard Russ Bullock has issues with). Also, this extreme and unrealistic accuracy is one of the reason the annoying "torso twist" skill has been a necessity. I don't know about everybody else, but I find it annoying (and nausea-inducing) to have to look all around to spread my damage out and last in a fight at all.

By contrast tabletop mostly spreads damage out by randomizing the hit locations (with some bias for CT and some exceptions like targeting computers).

My suggestion is to introduce some "cone of fire", recoil and for energy weapons "deflection in atmosphere" to make it more challenging to pick the exact piece of the mech you are trying to hit. I'm not talking about Battlefield 2-style cone of fire where you might miss entirely. The cone of fire would always hit *some part* of the mech if the original "perfect accuracy" shot would have hit the mech. The cone of fire would only randomize (with similar affinity for the part being aimed at as in tabletop has for CT front-on) the *piece* of the mech being aimed at. The usual tabletop mods to this would apply where targeting computers would increase the chance of the shot hitting the aimed-at piece of the mech, etc.

With a cone of fire like this everyone is a perfect torso-twister, torso-twisting has a much less pronounced effect, point weapons and huge point-alphas are less effective at TTK, but still chew up mechs. Those guys that can look around crazily to spread out damage probably don't *like* to do it anyway. The main thing is I don't have to look all around crazily to stay alive in a fight and I can focus on gunnery, movement and and strategy and keep my dinner down! ;-)

However, I'm sure those that have put up with the "look all over the place" damage spreading practice will argue against this since they think it gives them the advantage over those that don't understand that advantage, but I'm a tier 2 player, I do know how to torso twist very much and how it keeps you alive over twice as long, it's just that I hate doing it because it's annoying. It also reduces the accessibility of the game to new players because it is not obvious and annoying, they don't do it and get wrecked instantly.

Edited by God Particle, 13 March 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[patoman]

Hate to thrown in a world of tanks reference but they do it.

And it is actualy based off just about any kind of movement, say if you move turret, makes it go so wide, and drive the whole tank even wider. That could be good to implement.

So far the main thing preventing perfect accuracy is that running and gunning is harder than standing still, and if you move, your cross hairs go up and down.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

i think the game needs to be more accurate, (bullet velocity needs to go up... projectiles move so slow) ! I want to be able to torso twist more, seriously, when a light pack gets on me, I need more twist range!

[God Particle]

Aleksandr,

Sorry, you might have miss-interpreted that question. I too like to torso twist a lot to stay on my targets. My question was more focused on whether you like to torso-twist JUST to avoid damage and look everywhere to spread damage out (not at your enemy or target). Does that make sense? I edited the question to clarify it.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

God Particle, on 13 March 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

Aleksandr,

Sorry, you might have miss-interpreted that question. I too like to torso twist a lot to stay on my targets. My question was more focused on whether you like to torso-twist JUST to avoid damage and look everywhere to spread damage out (not at your enemy or target). Does that make sense? I edited the question to clarify it.

(This is my own personal opinion. Others opinions may differ, and everyone should be entitled to their own opinion.)

Well yes, I like torso twisting to spread damage also. I feel its more realistic-ish. You know, like shakey camera movies like Jason Borne, or military movies. Its like my mech is really moving, and swinging its arms and stuff. Its more dynamic. Its like my mech is trying to block bullets with his arms. Granted when I play, I like to envision a more cinematic look, but shielding is something i am glad is in the game.

I also like how precise our weapons are (well actually, I wish it was more precise). This is the future of moble combat. Our current present time weaponry is pretty dead on. Our guidence systems in vehicle combat is already beyond what we experience in mwo. I am sure the future would have technology at least similar. Anyway, so yah, I dont want cone of fire.

Heck, I would imagine, the reason TT has random hit locations, is probably because they expect the enemy to be twisting and shielding and what not. Movement of both mechs, heck even gunnery rating of the pilot. I honestly have seen Players, who cant hold a laser on a shutdown mech for its full duration; players who frantically move their max sensitivity mouse all over and beyond enemy mechs as if trying to death blossum the whole enemy team to death with each alpha. Ive also seen players torso twist like a boss, spreading incoming damage all over. i think the TT simulates this very well, and in MWO, the players get a more active roll in their fate!

If there was a mechanic I would change about mwo, its Jump Jets. Right now, I dont feel Jump Jets are simulated correctly in mwo. But I guess thats a topic for another day.

[NoiseCrypt]

I would the laser to get more and more diffused over distance, following a cone pattern.
At close range a Large Laser would do full and pinpoint damage
At long range the "total" damage would be reduced (as it is now), and that damage would be spread out over a larger circle/area. Most damage at the center, least damage on the edges.

Don't know if those calculations would kill the server though...

[God Particle]

Aleksandr,

However, to use your example, TT only simulates thinks like gunnery skill, movement, jumping etc. on whether you hit the mech or not. Gunnery skill does not come into play when choosing a hit location, even with a pro gunnery skill pilot on a stationary mech, you are still stuck with the same hit location table as everybody else once you achieve your "hit". This is the rub I think, location-based damage in Battletech was meant to assign consequences, not reduce time to kill.

Thanks for the response!

[General Solo]

Did MW1/2/3/4,MLL have Cone of Fire?
I don't think so.

Cone of Fire RND is for games with out an aiming mechanic
Like Mech Commander1/2, Tabletop, Tatics
I want to aim and hit that at which I aim.

Edit: LRM's have Cone of Fire , so maaybe every thing will be like LRM's without the lock

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 14 March 2016 - 11:37 AM.