164 replies to this topic

[Kieva]

Recently, I have been observing more and more units resorting to camping in their drop zone if they're defending a counterattack and acquire kill lead after an offensive rush.

My interpretation of the Code of Conduct is that this is a violation of it's rules aforementioned. The players are taking advantage of a game mechanic to protect fresh spawns (and honestly, something that would realistically happen in BT lore) to get that extra 12 LL or however many the dropship has, and on maps such as Hellebore Springs, it's an extremely cheap alternative to actually playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

In my opinion something really... REALLY needs to be done to eliminate this tactic.

Ideas worth submitting are that dropships will fire on all mechs, not just hostile, though I would prefer just turning off their lasers all together. I've yet to be in a CW game where my team actively spawn camped, so all those dropships do is create situations like this.

Of course, these are just thoughts. Share yours.

[Armando]

Kieva, on 13 March 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Recently, I have been observing more and more units resorting to camping in their drop zone if they're defending a counterattack and acquire kill lead after an offensive rush.

My interpretation of the Code of Conduct is that this is a violation of it's rules aforementioned. The players are taking advantage of a game mechanic to protect fresh spawns (and honestly, something that would realistically happen in BT lore) to get that extra 12 LL or however many the dropship has, and on maps such as Hellebore Springs, it's an extremely cheap alternative to actually playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

In my opinion something really... REALLY needs to be done to eliminate this tactic.

Ideas worth submitting are that dropships will fire on all mechs, not just hostile, though I would prefer just turning off their lasers all together. I've yet to be in a CW game where my team actively spawn camped, so all those dropships do is create situations like this.

Of course, these are just thoughts. Share yours.

It is not a strategy that I have ever used, and TBH while I have had enemy teams use this strategy against my teams, they have never done so successfully (always ends with them getting wiped).

They can use the drop ships all they want....isn't going to stop what is going to happen from happening. (They are going to be destroyed either way).

Edited by Armando, 13 March 2016 - 08:49 AM.

[Kieva]

We had a whole team do it, and it was an organized FRR group, it made the match much much closer than it should have been.

[pbiggz]

If you're getting camped at your spawn frequently it means something is wrong with your game, because its very easy to NOT be spawn camped.

In fact, you pretty much have to do everything wrong to get camped, and even then, those dropships aimbot people's weakest components.

If you are camping IN your drop zone its also not a violation of the code of conduct, but it got alot easier after PGI made drop zones harder for people to get into after constant whining about being spawn camped. Those teams lose either way, so if they want to lame out their matches and make MWO a miserable experience for themselves (and still lose in the end) they're more than welcome to hide in their DZ like the little ******* they are.




Edited: misread OP

Edited by pbiggz, 13 March 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

here is the thing... these guys only wanted to fight from their spawnpoint... so we had to fight both them and their dropships...

[Kieva]

pbiggz, on 13 March 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

If you're getting camped at your spawn frequently it means something is wrong with your game, because its very easy to NOT be spawn camped.

In fact, you pretty much have to do everything wrong to get camped, and even then, those dropships aimbot people's weakest components.

If you are camping IN your drop zone its also not a violation of the code of conduct, but it got alot easier after PGI made drop zones harder for people to get into after constant whining about being spawn camped. Those teams lose either way, so if they want to lame out their matches and make MWO a miserable experience for themselves (and still lose in the end) they're more than welcome to hide in their DZ like the little ******* they are.




Edited: misread OP

You do realize I refer to camping in your OWN drop zone... Right? You either didn't read the whole post, or need to up your comprehension skills. The scenario was: Counterattack on Hellebore Springs. The team defending Omega got kill lead after the first wave, of 11-9, so they all withdrew to their dropzone and stayed there to let the Dropships do all the work for them.

What it boils down to, is this: Is that the way PGI meant for people to play the game? Probably not. If not, does that make it a CoC violation? Yes.

Edited by Kieva, 13 March 2016 - 09:22 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

We got the drop zones we have now because bads complained about being spawn camped. Those of us who understand how CW functions knew immediately that these zones would be abused in the exact way OP is describing, But PGI, in it's infinite wisdom ignored our critique and went ahead with it's bone-headed designs as they usually do. Don't blame teams, blame PGI for not understanding it's own game. Oh, and hiding in the drop zone on Counter Attack is pretty much rampant among the crap tier FRR units. The best thing to do is organize your group to push in on them all at once and let the pain train do it's work.

[Davegt27]

I hate nerfing of tactics

The way the game works now once you’re down 10 Mechs the game should just end

That might not be exact but pretty close

Because of all the nerfing of tactics since CW started its just rush at each other and try to out alpha the other guy
Adding game economy, jump ships, 4V4, is really pointless

[lbxpryde]

this is the natural,logical reaction to the clans having both a damage per weapon and range advantage.getting a kill advantage and then defending high ground and forcing the clan to fight at close range is smart not a violation of anything.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is people using their dropships as fire support. I get the desire to make spawncamping less effective (you used to be able to roll <10 to 48 against bad teams. Once you got to the dropzone it was pretty much over as you could kill the enemy before they were all the way on the ground.

However camping your own dropzone is pretty feeble.

[B0oN]

Easy fix
No more guns on dropships .
Campship, err dropzone camping done.

[Kieva]

lbxpryde, on 13 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

this is the natural,logical reaction to the clans having both a damage per weapon and range advantage.getting a kill advantage and then defending high ground and forcing the clan to fight at close range is smart not a violation of anything.

Clan mechs run hotter. Or are supposed to. Heat management is life. Nuff said.

[Cy Mitchell]

Seems like once you have a lead going "turtle" is a reasonable and intelligent strategy. You may not like it but it becomes your job to overcome that strategy. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bring some of those "useless" LRM boats along and pound them into submission from range. If it is OK for an attacking team to spawn camp their way to victory then I see no reason why a defending team should not be able to spawn camp their way to a win too.

[Jenovah]

Kieva, on 13 March 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

Is that the way PGI meant for people to play the game? Probably not. If not, does that make it a CoC violation? Yes.

Actually, no, it doesn't. There are many things PGI has intended/not intended that have happened- that alone does not make it a CoC violation. The CoC is not an enabling document- it doesn't tell you what you can do, it is a limiting document- it tells you what you cannot do. So, unless it specifically states that you cannot obtain a lead and then hide on the map/dropzone wherever to attempt to achieve victory, you can.

As a matter of point, it has been reinforced that in game modes that require a kill lead/cap lead (for quick play) it is considered to be "attempting to meet win conditions" and therefore you are "actively participating and contributing" in a match if you are saving your mech from death in order to secure said win.

[Kieva]

Rampage, on 13 March 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Seems like once you have a lead going "turtle" is a reasonable and intelligent strategy. You may not like it but it becomes your job to overcome that strategy. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bring some of those "useless" LRM boats along and pound them into submission from range. If it is OK for an attacking team to spawn camp their way to victory then I see no reason why a defending team should not be able to spawn camp their way to a win too.

Withdrawing to a defensible location is one thing. Withdrawing in to the Dropships auto-CT hitting LL roulette is not a good example of a defensible location. That seems entirely manipulative of a game mechanic meant to prevent lone mechs spawning from getting camped and killed.

When my team regained the lead in this match, we did not withdraw to our dropship. We used one of the gates as a choke point.

Also, the violation of the CoC that my group claimed, was exploitation.

[Monkey Lover]

Ya it sucks but this is what PGI made for us. They had the option to let us select drop zone locations to limit camping but they went with the easier way. Funny part was no Real teams had a issue with drop zone camping because they would switch the players around during the drops it was only the pugs.


Keep camping in your drop zone and send Russ a tweet every time it happens until they fix it.

[Armando]

Kieva, on 13 March 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

We had a whole team do it, and it was an organized FRR group, it made the match much much closer than it should have been.

CW Tip / Under appreciated fact:

Outside of an organized and effect full 12-man, the most dangerous things in CW are turrets and drop ships. They will eat up / tear through / spit out both the best and worst pilots in the game alike.

The best counters to each are...

...Turrets: Priority Target #1 in all drops. If you see a turret and a mech...shoot the turret first.
...Drop Ships: Take ranged weapons, farm from outside drop ship range*.

* - some maps you can't farm @ range...instead use terrain / cover to hide in between drop ships. It can be a tough dance (giving each other room to get in / out quickly without stepping all over each other's junk) to pull off even for organized units, but it CAN be done.

Edited by Armando, 13 March 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Jman5]

It's not a violation, but it is something PGI needs to address. I say kick people out of their spawnzone if they are there for more than two minutes.

Not only would this prevent people from cheesing their way to a victory, but it would speed up matches that are all but decided. A lot of games are dragged on to a crazy degree by disconnects and others just sitting in their dropzone. Vitric even has inaccessible dropzones without jumpjets.

PGI's design to make spawn points deadly to enemies was good. Now they just need to take the next step preventing people from using it as a permanent shelter.

[Helsbane]

Withdrawing to a superior defensive location that has the availability of air support and rapid reinforcement isn't cheating. It's simply using the available elements to your advantage while denying the enemy the benefit of same. It's a tactic, not a cheat, and not an exploit. It's simple good defensive judgement. This location > pretty much every other location, at least in certain situations.

[Jman5]

Helsbane, on 13 March 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

Withdrawing to a superior defensive location that has the availability of air support and rapid reinforcement isn't cheating. It's simply using the available elements to your advantage while denying the enemy the benefit of same. It's a tactic, not a cheat, and not an exploit. It's simple good defensive judgement. This location > pretty much every other location, at least in certain situations.

It's definitely an exploit. Certainly not bannable, but you're creating an unfair advantage by using a mechanic that was intended to do something else. Spawn zones were given highly protected terrain and overpowered dropship support in order to prevent players from being insta-gibbed as soon as they land. Using it as permanent cover to win a match is highly exploitative.

What's more it's not fun for either party. The side that's inside gets bored just sitting there waiting for the clock to tick down. The side on the outside gets frustrated because they can't fight without pushing through narrow openings getting slaughtered by dropships and firing lines.

It's no less of an exploit than shooting Generator 2 on Emerald Taiga from outside the base.