68 replies to this topic

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Since I posted that I have elited all of my MXLs (look at the date, 15th March).

I still think that the arm hitboxes are far too big for the mech since that is where it mounts it's weapons. If you think shield arms on a Mist Lynx are good I wonder what you pack in the torso that needs protecting. I use my JJ for kicking off the JJ animation (to avoid fire) and for mobility, I do not need the amount of JJ the MXL packs. Every time I have seen a red MXL hold down that spacebar too long I have shot them down like a fat UAV.

The BAP can be mildly useful, but not as useful as the free pod space it would provide.

[Deathlike]

I did a little bit of thinking about the Mist Lynx in regards to the rescaling. I mean, we're just lucky this isn't going to get worse... for now.

The bigger problem with the Mist Lynx is obviously the arms, but it has a lot to do with how the weapons are attached.

Currently, using lasers increases the side profile of the arms immensely, and this rather problematic.

I'm not sure if there was some intentional implementation involved there, as while it doesn't increase the frontal profile (technically a good thing), you're actually reducing the point of attempting to torso twist on the mech... and for a humanoid-ish type of mech, this is actually bad.

This compounded with the fact that all the weapons are on its arms makes it worse.


It would make a lot more sense of the lasers were actually on the sides of the arms, instead of above+below them.

Yes, it would make the frontal profile for the arms worse, but here's the key thing... this isn't as bad.


When a mech is totally reliant on its arms, arm articulation is a godsend. This means less torso exposure to your enemy (aka, better TTK). The thing is that when your arm profile is larger FROM THE SIDE, a mech that is perpendicular to the Mist Lynx has a very easy shot on the arms.. literally the most critical component of the mech.

Ironically, the side with the ECM tends to has a better side profile than the one with weapons. The irony is that the side with the weapons is significantly easier to destroy (and this is besides/before the obvious quirks).


There's no meaningful point into adjusting the Mist Lynx's dakka arm (MGs are lol, and you have no tonnage for much else with ammo) and the missile arm is like something is being metastasized (very much like the Commando's missile arms), fixing the energy aspect of the arms arguably holds the best returns.

IIRC, most missile builds on Mist Lynx are just ammo dumps (SRMs or Streaks), so the size of the arm is somewhat irrelevant in that instance.

Anyways... just sharing the insights and ironies of one of the still-Worst Lights (at least as far as Clan Lights are concerned) in the game.

[Baba Yogi]

All those guys who are complaining about the arms, you realize arm is actually shielding the side torso? It makes it much easier to spread damage with proper twisting, mechs with small arms ie hunchback cannot soak damage in arms. All that mech needs is -laser duration so it'Ll have less facetime. There are few builds that are deadly in lynx as well. Short range but powerful

Edited by Lordhammer, 20 June 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[Navid A1]

This is usually what happens when we have 60+ mechs each with 10+ quirks.... bad quirk decisions remain bad and are buried under a million other issues.


If you want to help the mist lynx, here are the steps:
- Find Russ. Tell him that -15% heat loss rate is not the equivalent of -15% energy heat gen. PGI wanted compensate for its poor dubs and suddenly decided that its gonna make the MLX OP.
- decrease its laser box size.
- give durability quirks to arms
- give it 5-8% speed boost (for the same reason summoner has 5% speed boost)
- turn speed buff
- unlock CAP.
- Duration quirk for lasers
- MASSIVE rof quirks for MGs (with the new PHX, we know they can give as high as 50%)
- massive srm spread reduction quirks.


yet... the PGI is like... no no, MLX clam, clam op.. nerf clam... nerf MLX.

Edited by Navid A1, 20 June 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lordhammer, on 20 June 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

All those guys who are complaining about the arms, you realize arm is actually shielding the side torso? It makes it much easier to spread damage with proper twisting, mechs with small arms ie hunchback cannot soak damage in arms. All that mech needs is -laser duration so it'Ll have less facetime. There are few builds that are deadly in lynx as well. Short range but powerful

ALL of the weapons are in the arms.

If you lose the side torso, you lose the arm.

It's a double whammy in the case of the Myst Lynx.

When you lose both arms, you are "useless" for the most part.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 June 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[Navid A1]

Lordhammer, on 20 June 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

All those guys who are complaining about the arms, you realize arm is actually shielding the side torso? It makes it much easier to spread damage with proper twisting, mechs with small arms ie hunchback cannot soak damage in arms. All that mech needs is -laser duration so it'Ll have less facetime. There are few builds that are deadly in lynx as well. Short range but powerful

lolwut?

do you realize that shielding with arms is only viable when you have your main weapons in the torso, and you are using your empty arms as shields.

with the mist lynx shielding with arms is like:
Hey, enemies... I have half of my puny weapons in this box... why don't you shoot it?... its not like i need it or something!!!

[Baba Yogi]

Deathlike, on 20 June 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

ALL of the weapons are in the arms.

If you lose the side torso, you lose the arm.

It's a double whammy in the case of the Myst Lynx.

When you lose both arms, you are "useless" for the most part.

better arm than side torso, you lose alot more like that. And you will lose st instead because when you hit most lights from side they take damage to ST. much easier to core that way. Frontal arm profile isnt that big.

Edited by Lordhammer, 20 June 2016 - 01:18 PM.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I've seen people shield with the arms in a MLX...

Edited by Aetes Nakatomi, 20 June 2016 - 01:50 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lordhammer, on 20 June 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

better arm than side torso, you lose alot more like that. And you will lose st instead because when you hit most lights from side they take damage to ST. much easier to core that way. Frontal arm profile isnt that big.

You're really missing the point.

The Arctic Cheetah has side torso weapons. Despite having the majority of the weapons in its arms... you can actually justify using a shield arm (or two) because you actually have torso weapons to support you.

When you lose both arms in a Mist Lynx, you might as well be considered dead. It's akin to an Atlas-D-DC or Stalker (the variants w/o CT weapons) where losing both side torsos means you might as well have been dead anyways.

While not being dead is usually considered "good", being limited to "tank" or "capping mech" are extraordinarily limiting options. In the case of the Mist Lynx, losing both arms doesn't help... and it's too easy to rid of them. Thus, torso twisting is not even an ideal thing on this mech.

When you're not torso twisting, you're that much easier to core in the CT.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 June 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Baba Yogi]

if you lose both st you WILL be dead. Quite alot of times i was of use to the team by baiting enemy to fire at me, while at the same time spotting for team. A dead mech cannot do any of those things so i disagree.

Also i've played lynx for a long time, its not that easy to lose arms if you know how to pilot that thing. I do lose arms yes, but not before im red armor/crit elsewhere. It twists a bit differently than other mechs, where u face tank and twist towards where u have the most armor left. You have little armor so you HAVE to use all of your armor before start losing limbs. Shield arms are very handy to do that so u can use their armor as well. And a mech with lynx's agility can do just that. And if you are letting people to focus you down or your parts u dont know how to play a 25 tonner.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I play my Commandos all the time, I love my 25 tonners. I can gank a MLX in my CMD easily. I have more speed and more guns, having all the JJ and a CAP doesn't seem to help them. The only thing they can do is try to jump up a hill I cannot climb to escape.

[Brizna]

Lordhammer, most people only play MLX for about 50 matches to master it and forget about it after having played them as an slow ACH and being utterly disappointed with it. Then they will complain about a mech that plays in a very special but decent way they don't understand in the slightest. That wouldn't bother me, they may think whatever they want for all I care. What I fear is one day Russ will listen to their uninformed demands and utterly crush MLX viability and special flavor.

You either MASTER the MLX or you suck in it, and I am not talking about about the MASTER MODULE SLOT, I am talking about the pilot and its knowledge of the mech it's piloting. The MLX is a different ride and a mech class on its own. I am not saying it's meta or even objectively good but once you know how it plays it is definitely VIABLE. Most of the suggestions to improve this mech in this thread would take away from it everything that is special about it and turn it, this time for real, into just an slow and under armed ACH, way to improve a mech....

TLDR: The MLX must remain faithful to its current style because it's that queerness what makes it different and worth PLAYING. Don't make it into a BAD Arctic Cheetah, please.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I just wrote a huge post about the badness of the Lynx, then remembered I was enjoying the freaky little beast when I got the 3rd variant to Elite. Also most of the other lights just grew, pah... I will take the Lynx to master tomorrow.

Besides, the ugly little gorilla armed monstrosity can do one thing better than any other Mech. Red, white and blue with crusader is the best Union Flag in the game!

[Y E O N N E]

I honestly don't want the arms to shrink at all, their bigness is one of the defining characteristics of the 'Mech. I'd much rather they just throw on some bonus armor to compensate.

I mean, jeebus, the Nova still gets bonus armor even after tomorrow.

[Brizna]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I honestly don't want the arms to shrink at all, their bigness is one of the defining characteristics of the 'Mech. I'd much rather they just throw on some bonus armor to compensate.

I mean, jeebus, the Nova still gets bonus armor even after tomorrow.

Arms Structure: +12
Legs Structure: +12
Side Torsos: +10

As a fan MLX I am not opposed to MOAR QUIRKS, but considering it is a 25 toner that level of quirks DOUBLES the structure of the mech. If any quirks are to be increased it would be better to increase offensive quirks, in particular the nerf to clan energy weapons damage decay over optimal range hit MLX pretty badly, some extra range for SPLs would be very much appreciated to take damage figures back where they used to be, some cooldown would help, but the mech's heat management would suffer, while duration is always great.

[Y E O N N E]

Brizna, on 20 June 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Arms Structure: +12
Legs Structure: +12
Side Torsos: +10

As a fan MLX I am not opposed to MOAR QUIRKS, but considering it is a 25 toner that level of quirks DOUBLES the structure of the mech. If any quirks are to be increased it would be better to increase offensive quirks, in particular the nerf to clan energy weapons damage decay over optimal range hit MLX pretty badly, some extra range for SPLs would be very much appreciated to take damage figures back where they used to be, some cooldown would help, but the mech's heat management would suffer, while duration is always great.

No, not structure, ARMOR. Structure doesn't solve the problem of the weapons being easily removed since it can be crit.

It needs more armor on the arms and it needs a 20% ER laser duration quirk.

[Navid A1]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 June 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

No, not structure, ARMOR. Structure doesn't solve the problem of the weapons being easily removed since it can be crit.

It needs more armor on the arms and it needs a 20% ER laser duration quirk.

ER laser duration is gonna make it hotter than it already is.

-20% energy heat gen quirk is the way to go (on top of duration quirk)
Also 7% more speed.

And some additional arm ARMOR.

That is my recipe!

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I honestly don't want the arms to shrink at all, their bigness is one of the defining characteristics of the 'Mech. I'd much rather they just throw on some bonus armor to compensate.

I mean, jeebus, the Nova still gets bonus armor even after tomorrow.

Mist Lynxes are like Awesomes - you forget they exist, and once they do actually show up, they are usually gutted easily.

There's like not one redeeming quality of the Mist Lynx.. primarily because the Cheetah does literally everything what the Mist Lynx does better.

Too many people try to find value in it, but like all obviously bad mechs (like the Vindicator), the flaws tend to outweigh basic usability.

[Brizna]

Deathlike, on 20 June 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

There's like not one redeeming quality of the Mist Lynx.. primarily because the Cheetah does literally everything what the Mist Lynx does better.

I've heard that line before, hell I've even said it myself (back when Arctic Cheetah was the Arctic Cheater) but it is simply false that ACH does everything better than MLX.

• Maximum Speed: We have clear winner here, ACH's 139 m/s Vs MLX's 121 m/s, meaningful difference but not breathtaking.
  
• Acceleration: We have a clear winner here, and nope it's NOT the ACH, MLX has 140m/s2 while ACH has to do with about 110m/s2. QUIRKS!!
  
• Turning Speed: Again, MLX is a CLEAR winner with about 140º/s, 20º/s more than ACH, QUIRKS!
  
• Deceleration: The same story. QUIRKS!
  
• Firepower: Hands down ACH, more hard points and 8.5 tons for pod space, 2 more than MLX (1 if you count the cAP as "FREE" tonnage).
  
• JUMP: Clear winner MLX, it jumps 62.4 m with better impulse and general maneuverability in the air than ACH who has to do with 55 m jump and slower and more predictable jump.
  
• MAX DPS: Obviously ACH, 6 weapons provide 50% extra alpha striking.
  
• SUSTAINED DPS: ACH but only by a hair's width, if you compare the usual cSPL boating build for each variant ACH 4,8 dps Vs MLX's sustained 4,56 dps. Not much of an advantage, is it?
  
• Hit boxes: This is harder to asses, neither of the mech has notoriously bad hit boxes except for MLX's arms, but those are heavily reinforced with massive quirks (for a 25 toner) which make them fabulous SHIELD ARMS, of course the weapons are there and that's a pity, still losing an arm is always preferable (no exception) to losing the side torso AND the arm.
  
• Damage Soaking: It might be a surprise but ACH has 288 hit point (structure + armor) while MLX has 308 thanks to the extra 68 points of structure, so by a hair's width MLX is the sturdier mech, (heads not accounted for)

All in all, the ACH has speed and firepower while MLX has maneuverability and durability on his side.

And this proves that the commonly known fact "ACH is better to MLX in every possible way" is FALSE, not only that but also that MLX has some very meaningful advantages over ACH in the battlefield for those who know how to use them.

EDITED TO ADD FORMATTING TO THE LIST.

Edited by Brizna, 21 June 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[Deathlike]

Brizna, on 21 June 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

I've heard that line before, hell I've even said it myself (back when Arctic Cheetah was the Arctic Cheater) but it is simply false that ACH does everything better than MLX.

• Maximum Speed: We have clear winner here, ACH's 139 m/s Vs MLX's 121 m/s, meaningful difference but not breathtaking.
  
• Acceleration: We have a clear winner here, and nope it's NOT the ACH, MLX has 140m/s2 while ACH has to do with about 110m/s2. QUIRKS!!
  
• Turning Speed: Again, MLX is a CLEAR winner with about 140º/s, 20º/s more than ACH, QUIRKS!
  
• Deceleration: The same story. QUIRKS!
  
• Firepower: Hands down ACH, more hard points and 8.5 tons for pod space, 2 more than MLX (1 if you count the cAP as "FREE" tonnage).
  
• JUMP: Clear winner MLX, it jumps 62.4 m with better impulse and general maneuverability in the air than ACH who has to do with 55 m jump and slower and more predictable jump.
  
• MAX DPS: Obviously ACH, 6 weapons provide 50% extra alpha striking.
  
• SUSTAINED DPS: ACH but only by a hair's width, if you compare the usual cSPL boating build for each variant ACH 4,8 dps Vs MLX's sustained 4,56 dps. Not much of an advantage, is it?
  
• Hit boxes: This is harder to asses, neither of the mech has notoriously bad hit boxes except for MLX's arms, but those are heavily reinforced with massive quirks (for a 25 toner) which make them fabulous SHIELD ARMS, of course the weapons are there and that's a pity, still losing an arm is always preferable (no exception) to losing the side torso AND the arm.
  
• Damage Soaking: It might be a surprise but ACH has 288 hit point (structure + armor) while MLX has 308 thanks to the extra 68 points of structure, so by a hair's width MLX is the sturdier mech, (heads not accounted for)

All in all, the ACH has speed and firepower while MLX has maneuverability and durability on his side.

And this proves that the commonly known fact "ACH is better to MLX in every possible way" is FALSE, not only that but also that MLX has some very meaningful advantages over ACH in the battlefield for those who know how to use them.

EDITED TO ADD FORMATTING TO THE LIST.

I probably should've added the word "relevant".

ACH is better than the MLX in every relevant possible way.

In every iteration of the MLX (all of them quirks), the Arctic Cheetah has been better than the Mist Lynx as a whole.

There were screams and cries about the ACH when it came out... partly due to quirks, and partly because they forgot what Lights felt like since the Firestarter.

Noone ever talks about Mist Lynx rushes in FW... because they don't exist (or they were terrible failures). The closest Clans ever had a "Light rush" prior to the ACH is the damned Ice Ferret - a far more serviceable "fat Light" than a Mist Lynx, and even today, the Ice Ferret serves a purpose (though, not really for any significant Light-related purpose).


The Mist Lynx has been irrelevant, despite quirks, like the Vindicator and many other bad mechs.

While numbers and quirks suggest otherwise, the Mist Lynx serves no real role in the game other than trolling both teams - yours and your opponents.