27 replies to this topic

[Spider00x]

I know the subject of mech balancing is always a hot button issue, and I rarely like to chime in on this but after the release of the Jenner-IIC I think again this is starting to get a little out of hand. And Ill try to explain below without pissing off too many clan pilots. Again I, myself as a dedicated IS player am bias and I am fully aware that you should take what Im about to say with a grain of salt so here goes...

I just dont think IS right now can stand up to the clan in the light mech department. Obviously as any IS player know the Cheeta is and will always be the unstoppable OP light mech that just is a force onto itself. It has been nerf'd in the past I dont think it will be nerfed again which is a a grim reality I think well all have to live with. It really is a super mech much in the same vein as the Timber Wolf; jump jets, ECM, high top speed, high mounted hardpoints via omipod and armed with clan small pulse does wrecks you. It takes a lot to bring down a skilled cheeta pilot and as any IS aligned pilot knows if your caught out somewhere with a cheeta your pretty much screwed which is why in competitive play fielding assault mechs has become a huge liability. ALL THAT being said and possibly argued over till the end of time, I present to you a knew mech made available for C-Bills; the Jenner-IIC

So not in addition to the super cheeta we have to contend with a light mech that has a 72 point alpha when loaded to the brim with SRMs. With speeds so high and hit boxes so crazy it can single highhandedly turn the tide of battle. Before everyone looses their damn minds on this forum, who has not played against them in CW it is a nightmare, ridiculous nightmare how fast it can get behind you and alpha your rear CT. Then has the speed to run off and cool down and do it again. Im not sure how this made it past any sort of QA testing for balance but come on guys how are you going to Nerf the Black Jack for structure quirks but leave a 35 ton mech in the game that has a 72pt alpha.

You know its fine dudes, don't change a thing with those two mechs (cheeta & Jenner-IIC) all I want is an IS mech that can compete with those mechs or a buff. And please dont tell me wolfhounds or Firestarters are even in the same league. Now a days you see 4 heavies, or a mix of heavies and meds just to avoid having to roll the dice on a crappy IS light mech that barely scratches 300dmg in an organized match.

I truly think there needs to be some balancing here, if not then well thats fine too I just want clan pilots to know how utterly infuriating fighting waves of those mechs can be, and what a tonnage to damage trade they have vs IS mech drop decks.

Im curious to see how everyone feels on both sides of the isle so feel free to comment your honest opinions.

[sycocys]

You ever thought about shooting either of them in the legs? What 24 armor on them maybe? Very few mechs out there that can't one shot leg a light mech - even other lights.

Both of them are really not that bad to take down if you actually take advantage of their huge weakness.

[Zibmo]

sycocys, on 15 March 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

You ever thought about shooting either of them in the legs? What 24 armor on them maybe? Very few mechs out there that can't one shot leg a light mech - even other lights.

Both of them are really not that bad to take down if you actually take advantage of their huge weakness.

I do believe he said, "don't change a thing with those two mechs (cheeta & Jenner-IIC) all I want is an IS mech that can compete with those mechs or a buff."

[sycocys]

Firestarter, Commando (most of them actually can), Wolfhound, Jenner-F, Raven (especially 3L with MPL/ML and srms).

Just the ones of the top of my head, people just don't ever practice in IS lights outside of trying to be sniper-dummies so they have no clue how well they work. If you can shoot accurately while moving full tilt IS lights tend to outclass all of the clan ones by a good margin.

So no, the clan ones don't need debuffed, and the IS ones don't need to be buffed - players just need to learn how to actually shoot moving targets (preferably while moving themselves).

Edited by sycocys, 15 March 2016 - 02:16 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Oxide eats Cheetahs and IIC Jenners for breakfast...

[Spider00x]

sycocys, on 15 March 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Firestarter, Commando (most of them actually can), Wolfhound, Jenner-F, Raven (especially 3L with MPL/ML and srms).

Just the ones of the top of my head, people just don't ever practice in IS lights outside of trying to be sniper-dummies so they have no clue how well they work. If you can shoot accurately while moving full tilt IS lights tend to outclass all of the clan ones by a good margin.

So no, the clan ones don't need debuffed, and the IS ones don't need to be buffed - players just need to learn how to actually shoot moving targets (preferably while moving themselves).

You lost me at commando...

[Gangnail]

sycocys, on 15 March 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

You ever thought about shooting either of them in the legs? What 24 armor on them maybe? Very few mechs out there that can't one shot leg a light mech - even other lights.

Both of them are really not that bad to take down if you actually take advantage of their huge weakness.

VERY VERY rarely am I ever legged by a one shot usually its a huge alpha that was headed for the CT that missed. If you are good enough to hit me in a leg at +125kph consistently then surely you are a master.
That being said I rarely get one shotted in an IS light as well.

As for the OP The standard Clan Jenner Meta right now is a 40 point alpha strike with srms. 4 srm 4's and 2 srm 2's. A pretty big shot but again it's srms not a 30 point alpha from a Jenner F that is easier to pinpoint

Edited by Gangnail, 15 March 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

This thread has so much fail, I don't even know where to start. So I won't.

[Tarl Cabot]

The fail is that IS lights have to use is-XL engine. So.. shoot two legs, try to hit only the CT or concentrate on one side torso? Side torso for $500 Alex...

[Zoid]

This is actually well-balanced by IS pulse laser duration. When you can deliver 50 damage to one spot in 0.6 seconds, it's pretty easy to deal with brawling lights.

[sycocys]

Spider00x, on 15 March 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

You lost me at commando...

Then you need to learn how to play IS lights. End of story.

[Spider00x]

sycocys, on 15 March 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Then you need to learn how to play IS lights. End of story.

the issue isnt piloting IS mechs, the issue is balance, a good pilot can take hold of any mech and make it his own. My argument is the raw stock light mechs of IS are lacking in comparison to clan. IS light vs Clan light isnt even the issue, its how well clan lights can take on much bigger weight classes. thats all bro...

Edited by Spider00x, 15 March 2016 - 11:47 PM.

[Ismael]

Spider00x, on 15 March 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

the issue isnt piloting IS mechs, the issue is balance, a good pilot can take hold of any mech and make it his own. My argument is the raw stock light mechs of IS are lacking in comparison to clan. IS light vs Clan light isnt even the issue, its how well clan lights can take on much bigger weight classes. thats all bro...

I have both, nearly all IS lights and nearly all clan lights. They have both advantages. The Jenner is a glasscannon and the SRM version is the best. Cheetah is the best with small pulse lasers. BUT: Don't underestimate the IS lights. Commando 3A has -30% on missile cooldown. You can solo kill assaults with it. True it has no high alpha, but you dont need it. You can shoot the SRMs in a very small cooldown, plus Commando has structure quirks.

Both sides have advantages and disadvantages and I like them like they are. You should play the mechs yourself before you judge and cry for balance.

[Ace Selin]

Ismael, on 16 March 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

I have both, nearly all IS lights and nearly all clan lights. They have both advantages. The Jenner is a glasscannon and the SRM version is the best. Cheetah is the best with small pulse lasers. BUT: Don't underestimate the IS lights. Commando 3A has -30% on missile cooldown. You can solo kill assaults with it. True it has no high alpha, but you dont need it. You can shoot the SRMs in a very small cooldown, plus Commando has structure quirks.

Both sides have advantages and disadvantages and I like them like they are. You should play the mechs yourself before you judge and cry for balance.

This. In close the 8sml pulse Firestarter can easily take on the Cheetah, the Jenner IIC is a glass cannon that is nicely countered by the Oxide.

As someone who plays them all i like how they are different but relatively balanced.

[sycocys]

Stock IS anything isn't going to stand up well against rigged out Clan mechs. Stock IS mechs won't stand up against rigged IS mechs.

Why would you even compare stock vs rigged up?

Edited by sycocys, 16 March 2016 - 02:30 AM.

[Deathlike]

Learn to use a Firestarter.

There are other options (like an Oxide, though any nerf will change opinions), but you'd actually have to have a modicum of skill to make them work better than the alternatives.

Jenner IIC isn't really a competitor in the same way (it's different) as the Arctic Cheetah is what you're going to primarily compete against.

Learning to leg (like actually working on that religiously vs all Lights instead of complaining about it) is a critical skill and if you're that scared against working vs the ACH, then you're not going to actually compete.

The Jenner IIC's problem is mostly that it is a bit fragile (easy to remove legs, and side torsos - assuming you can aim) but the playload can be great (a glass cannon to a degree). Of course, if you are good at being less visible.. it cannot be ignored.


In any case.. if you spent more time worrying about the fundamentals (like legging) and not so much about the mechs, then it's less of a problem. I'm not saying there aren't imbalances (and there should be more options, but those require you being good) but you can't just ignore the things you need to work on.

[Kmieciu]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

if you spent more time worrying about the fundamentals (like legging) and not so much about the mechs, then it's less of a problem.

Legging is not always the best option. Against a Locust or a Jenner, just aim for the CT. If a Raven is torso twisting, blow his ST.
Kitfox and Adder are so slow and huge you can hit any hitbox you want - might as well go for STs to farm damage.

Spider on the other hand, has oversized leg hitboxes that are easier to hit than the CT.

[sycocys]

You always leg lights. Dividing your damage across 2 horizontal parts is always preferable to dividing it across 5. And legs don't twist to spread damage, so you greatly increase your ability to put your entire amount of fire into 1 location.

Shoot high and don't instagib? You just cost someone on your team 20-40 armor at the minimum, probably more. Leg a light and you landed a kill shot + saved your teammates armor.

[dervishx5]

MY DELICIOUS JENNER IIC IS STRONG

BUT IT IS ALSO WEAK

GLASS CANNONS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. SHOOT THEM BEFORE THEY SHOOT YOU.

[Celtic Warrior IS]

IS and clan lights are very even don't understand why this thread exists other then whining.