24 replies to this topic

[MarsThunder]

Thank you for Archer, PGI!
Nice mech. Though I don't understand quirks on ARC-5S. It is a good base for lrm boat, replace laser quirk with lrm one, pls

Edited by MarsThunder, 16 March 2016 - 02:19 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Absolute:
Archer has bugged out hitboxes, and is not XL friendly at all due to side torsos extending all the way to the "nose", seems tighter on internal space.

Archer quirks also make it one of the weakest LRM mechs out there. It also lacks the slots to build effective LRM builds on all except 2 versions due to LRM 5/10 needing more launchers, as opposed to the extremely unfocused "splatter" of the LRM 15/20, and their extreme weight and heavy ammo dependencies.

Subjective:
Besides the looks (it looks great, no doubt there), there is no reason to run the Archer - its a bad LRM mech and is incapable of performing its "long range brawler" role with any kind of satisfaction, it feels more sluggish than my Stalker 5M missile boat and performs a lot worse. Just about the only positive i can think of is the top mounted TAG slot.

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 16 March 2016 - 04:05 AM.

[Rhalgaln]

This Mech is a really bad joke.
I do not laugh for that much money.

It looks like I have to review my strategy to preorder mechs.

[MarsThunder]

Guys, imho you exaggerate a little
I do quite good with different configs and I really like the mech.

Though I agree with @Thunderbird that Archer should be one of the best lrm mech.

Edited by MarsThunder, 16 March 2016 - 06:58 AM.

[Koniving]

My experiences with it so far have been akin to this. It's hitboxes are akin to a Clan mech (specifically mad dog) and work well provided humanoid twisting to distribute damage is abandoned for Chicken-walker-esque 20 degree twists. This is great and very important for this mech's success as an lrm mech unless more extreme arm range is given or removal of "hold lock" trait for lrms is done.

The Archer stands to frontal abuse quite well as well as some flanking abuse. Rear hitboxes are small which helps with high frontal armor allotments to enjoy the storm crow, Timberwolves, stalker, Raven, Jenner, firestarter advantage of all but 2 armor on front making it an incredibly tanky beast. I'd run this as is over a cataphract with 300% structure buffs any day of the week.

This mech brings up convergence issues however. Top mounted weapons with a low cockpit remove some potential of peeking shots. In old delayed convergence establishing a lock then firing would allow to hit in spite of hill protecting body. See video.

Now this is impossible.

The only other thing worth mentioning is I thought the CT had a door at first impression when seeing CT missile points. Sadly this wasn't the case.

This was my first experience. I enjoyed it and sequential uses.

Koniving, on 15 March 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

First match with an Archer.

Scores overall.

Loadout (this was just something random for cosmetic reasons.)

The look achieved.

Note: LRM larger than 10 will go on lower arm, LRM of 10 will go on higher arm... when both LRM and SRM exist on arm.

I've made two kills with the SRMs against enemy lights who came up to harass me.

Youtube video recorded of this match. Expect it up sometime tomorrow.

Edited by Koniving, 17 March 2016 - 04:48 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

I would like to agree with you... but I cant

The mech is a mess, and so are LRMs beyond 5/10 size, which just makes it that little bit worse.

[oO Biohazzard Oo]

I hate to disagree with my esteemed colleague Thunderbird, however I do. I've run the T,R and W variants and find the T and R to be excellent LRM boats. I use them as "fast" attack boats using Tag and hit and run tactics. The W I have kitted out as a brawler and have no problem fighting lights and pounding the crap out of anything that moves.

I did expect something more for LRM quirks as the Archer IS supposed to be a walking artillery piece. I would expect/like range quirks to be added.

[Kusunoki Masashige]

Archer = poop
Poor to useless quirks
Mech is very squishy = poopy hit boxes
Feel like i wasted my money all the other unseen mechs were tons better.
PGI really are you just trying to sell us subpar junk?
Really ghost heat now on 4 or more SRM LRMS lame....

I will also have to really be careful preordering mechs......

Edited by Kusunoki Masashige, 16 March 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[CmdrA]

I do have to agree something is wrong with the hitboxes. I've never lost my CT armor as of yet and have basically instantly lost my side torso armor regardless of putting 8 in the back and the rest up front to make sure I have plenty of side armor incase. And still, basically getting one shot. Mech is very XL Unfriendly and the quirks still ingame have been unfortunately underwhelming.

The mechs should at least get a general missile quirk so you can choose to use SRMs and make them more effective than losing out. The 5W and 5S at least should have heat efficiency quirks for missiles considering one has 5 missile hps and the other one is outfitted with nothing but missile hps.

The 2R probably could bump up the energy heat efficiency just 5 more percent, considering it has more energy hardpoints than the other 2, ((didn't buy the tempest, I don't buy heros at all)) and energy can run hot especially if you go on using missiles as well.

[tokumboh]

I didn't buy this mech because I thought that it would be an LRM boat and it seems it is. There is nothing wrong with it but it is just not my thing. I think the MAD and WHM were better in they were always going to be brawly type mechs which more sits my style. TBF PGI makes money selling mechs and premium time and allowing conversions of XP to GXP. I have already bought the Phoenix Hawk Pack (yes that is a gamble, I just never got the hang of mediums) and the Kodiak and I feel the extras you get are worth it. If people expected an uber mech I am surprised. That said if they improve the LRM range quirks, that wouldn't be seen as unfair.

[Sevronis]

So reserved my opinion on the quirks until I played my Archers, and I can agree they do feel a bit weak, but not too weak. When it comes to missiles there is a bit of a fine line between good missile quirks and it becoming annoyingly OP (not for the user I'm sure, but to those getting hit from it, leading to complaints to nerf it). Also the Archer-T needs some kind of missile quirk(s). a mech like the Archer doesn't really fit the laserboat role as well as another mech that is built for it, like the Grasshopper, or Cataphract, both fellow 70 tonners, which I would rather take for laserboating over the Archer for a 70 slot. And if you don't take missiles on the Archer, then it's limiting its potential, especially if making loadouts based on quirks.

Also, like with most new mech releases, the hitboxes seem a bit borked on the sides. That CT nose need to be all CT, even the sides of it as the missle pod areas are the real STs, and would make it more XL friendly (which frankly I feel are more useful for more effective builds on it unless I take a smaller engine than the 280 STD).

Edited by Sevronis, 16 March 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[Mourning Light]

The main problem I have with the Archer is the missile bay doors. Pop those suckers open and look, your mech is now taller than an Atlas and your hit box has just extended up over that ridge you're using as cover.

[Black Ivan]

My Feedback to the Archer:

Open bay doors make the Mech a death trap, loosing sie torso is very eas, whoever had this bad idea.

Quierks are very poo and not tought over.

Overall a poor Mech.

[Koniving]

Don't leave side doors open? I let the doors open on their own mostly. Or when farther away, I open them on my own.

Mourning Light, on 16 March 2016 - 09:06 PM, said:

The main problem I have with the Archer is the missile bay doors. Pop those suckers open and look, your mech is now taller than an Atlas and your hit box has just extended up over that ridge you're using as cover.

I do agree, they open a bit high, maybe subtract 15 or 20 degrees?

What genuinely irks me about the doors is they fly open almost instantly. Neat, but excessive.

Another idea is I noticed the doors split. What if the split was half-way up the middle of the top section? Then the upper door would be much smaller and the lower door, yes it's big but if you're behind a ridge it won't matter... and the doors opening so quickly would actually be realistic as 'gravity' helps the much larger bottom doors.

[Koniving]

Vid's up.

[Koniving]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 16 March 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

I would like to agree with you... but I cant

The mech is a mess, and so are LRMs beyond 5/10 size, which just makes it that little bit worse.

You just want to boat big missiles. Though I agree the Archer should have something about tightening the spread of large missile salvos. Clans are blessed with streaming missiles which makes their spread pretty irrelevant. IS? Just this big glob. I miss classic LRMs.
Artemis:

Standard:


We need those back. This new LRM style of "bleh" is ****!

---

That said, have you...

CmdrA, on 16 March 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

I do have to agree something is wrong with the hitboxes. I've never lost my CT armor as of yet and have basically instantly lost my side torso armor regardless of putting 8 in the back and the rest up front to make sure I have plenty of side armor incase. And still, basically getting one shot. Mech is very XL Unfriendly and the quirks still ingame have been unfortunately underwhelming.

and you...
and the others...

Have you ever used a Clan mech before?
This is the problem with most of the Clan mechs. But they're "overpowered." "Must be nerfed." "Impossible to kill." Etc., etc., etc.

Check out the torso of the Mad Dog.

That's what you're looking at, EXCEPT the 'head' is on the nose itself. Your head cockpit is on the nose but otherwise it's identical to this here. Notice how the side torsos spread out?

Twist 20 degrees to spread damage, NOT 90 degrees. You'll live a crapload longer. Welcome to life in a Clan mech, on the IS. Enjoy LONG face times, have the armor at no more than 12 rear, and enjoy this tanky beast that I've used exclusively with XL engines.

If you're afraid of the torsos getting hit, have you ever tried using your arms to block shots? Hit left CTRL, mouse up and in the angle opposite of the attack (if coming at your left, mouse up and right; BAM it hit your arm! ZOMG! Blocking bullets!? Who could've thought of that!?)

Pfft.

In all seriousness though, welcome to life as a Clan mech, on the IS side.




Though I must say, if you can manage an Archer with a standard engine -- imagine how much that thing could tank, it's like a Stalker!


Don't tell me you guys want it to have the hitbox of an Awesome?


Don't see complaints about Catapult XL engines? IT's the same way as the Archer.

However, it used to be the way you guys are WANTING the Archer to be:


<.< Just food for thought.

[CmdrA]

Koniving, on 17 March 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

tl;dr

Doesn't matter still, get my sides blown off pretty much instantly regardless. 94% overall health and side torso lost already? Yes its happened. So toss off. The side torsos are bad as they are currently and need fixing. There is no reason you should be able to lose a side torso instantly like that. :|

Edited by CmdrA, 17 March 2016 - 07:04 AM.

[Koniving]

CmdrA, on 17 March 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

Doesn't matter still, get my sides blown off pretty much instantly regardless. 94% overall health and side torso lost already? Yes its happened. So toss off. The side torsos are bad as they are currently and need fixing. There is no reason you should be able to lose a side torso instantly like that. :|

How little armor do you have for it to still be 94% health?
That isn't even possible. Straight up removing the side torso without quirks brings it down to 86% health.
And the reason the center torso isn't taking much is has +11 structure on top of already having more basic armor and structure than the side torso. Keep in mind that unquirked side torsos have the same health as a leg and a leg is easy to take off. Have you spent too much time playing overquirked mechs like the old Blackjacks?

With the highest quirks I can see on an Archer for health, it's still 86%, but 86.86 rather than 86.36.

It's 70 tons. That's barely above a Catapult. And Cataphracts sometimes feel like they die too quick these days from the high alpha bull-***** we have these days. Additional power creep, however, is not the answer to it.

For you to lose your side torso with you being brought down to only 94% would require you would have to strip MORE than 48 armor off of the mech BEFORE LAUNCHING INTO A MISSION! O_O! HOLY ****! That's like the entire stock front armor. Somehow it's not surprising if you lost it instantly...

(And I'll be honest, removing 100% of the stock front armor off of one side torso, brings me down to 93% health when my side torso is destroyed; and stripping ALL armor off of one side torso brought me to .....93(.9etc)%.

What is your build? Lets investigate why you're losing it so impossibly quick.

[CmdrA]

Koniving, on 17 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

What is your build? Lets investigate why you're losing it so impossibly quick.

Lern2read, my first post you quoted already answered your own question for you there.

[IronEricP]

Ya know, I have a weird theory about the side torso insta-death thing.

I will preface:

I have bought the Archers, including the Tempest.
I have used the 2R and Tempest so far.
I have had matches where the side torsos absorb damage as normal.
I have had matches where the entire side torso seems to be blown off on the FIRST hit; though granted the WAS a large volume of fire incoming the display went from perfect to gone with no in-between.

Here is my (wonky) theory:

We heard about a mechanic 'possibly' getting introduced where the Archer's doors were NOT going to be part of the hit-box when opened, but could be blown off independently. What if they tested that, but the coding from that test made it into the build, but it IS part of the hit box. And therefore, blows off the whole fr***in' torso.

Now, while I think it is UNLIKELY that this is the case, the fact that several people have noted a similar issue does make me wonder just a bit.

If anyone has some free time and a couple friends, some private match testing would make it pretty easy to look into this. I'll try and do the same if I can later tonight.

Edited by Eric Portenelli, 19 March 2016 - 02:02 PM.