46 replies to this topic

[Oberost]

Duke Nedo, on 17 March 2016 - 12:11 AM, said:

To be fair, Russ did state for the Warhammer wasn't it, that the new unseens are carefully play-tested to make sure that the hitboxes and quirks perform as needed, something like that. I think most people agree that the Archer quirks are not inline with existing mechs, not even the late releases.

We did however get plenty of time between the inject and the announcement of the quirks to refund and buy something else.

Yes, but there was some statements (by Paul) regarding that the quirks were released prematurely, and that they were still looking at. And then, the day before the patch (or maybe patch day, timezones drive me crazy) Russ said that quirks were fine, and that they will look at it later, when they can gather more data from real play.

Do you really need more data to know that these quirks are completely inappropiate (not just from gameplay, also from lore point)? I mean, laser quirks in the 5S, a mech with 5M and 4E?

Come on...

[Thunderbird Anthares]

you dont even need playtesting to see that the hitboxes and quirks dont perform as needed, intended, or desired...

all you would need to see is the hitbox editor open to determine that there are... issues...

quirks can be a matter of opinion, but anyone can see that they are not LRM mech quirks, and cant even light a candle to the few current LRM mechs

Archer is a "minimum viable product"
i seriously doubt it was playtested beyond making it operational

honestly at this point i would man up and step forward to say its either going to be delayed, or were gonna get a incomplete mech - pick one

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 17 March 2016 - 12:48 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Oberost, on 17 March 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

Yes, but there was some statements (by Paul) regarding that the quirks were released prematurely, and that they were still looking at. And then, the day before the patch (or maybe patch day, timezones drive me crazy) Russ said that quirks were fine, and that they will look at it later, when they can gather more data from real play.

Do you really need more data to know that these quirks are completely inappropiate (not just from gameplay, also from lore point)? I mean, laser quirks in the 5S, a mech with 5M and 4E?

Come on...

Aye, that was a bit confusing. Personally I didn't think that talk about revising the quirks was enough so I made the call to refund/transfer the purchase to the corresponding Kodiak instead. PGI solved that for me in 2 hours time, I feel so happy about that call right now.

But yeah, I feel the pain of everyone who believed the quirks would be boosted before injection. Though one can't demand quirkening, one unavoidably has expectations.

[El Bandito]

Rhent, on 16 March 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

I expected a Mech that would have adequate LRM quirks to put it into a leader slot for LRM's if not the top 3. What I got was a mech that has deliberate hard point issues. When you have a mech with launch bays and energy slots in low lying arms, you expect SOMETHING to be given to the mech to compensate. At the very least, I would have expected the non-hero mechs to have 4 Missile Mounts in the side torsos a piece so that you could chain LRM 5 / LRM 10s and still do adequate damage with energy back ups as a LRM boat. With the horrible grouping for LRM 20's, they gave us a mech with 2 side torsos for LRM 20's and they have 1 other base on the side. Not sure what the 3rd torso missile mount has for tubes, but I believes its being used for Narc so watch it be a 1 tube slot. I'd know for sure, but the Archer is so horrible, I'm leaving them in the bay and I asked for a refund, I'm not using these mechs. PGI has got to put in some form of refund policy to handle it when they release content that is horrible. Or else people will quit pre-ordering. I'm more than happy to issue a charge back and leave this game after how bad they did the Archer.

From this post, I can see that your expectations were simply too high. All the non-hero mechs with 4 missile launchers per ST? Wow. The hardpoints were shown to you even before quirks. The third ST launcher size is 20 and CT launcher size for the Tempest is 10. Launcher size-wise they are completely fine.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2016 - 03:09 AM.

[Jenovah]

Rhent, on 16 March 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

I'm glad I didn't buy the Phoenix Hawk, that was going to be another purchase because its a classic, but after the Archer, NOPE. Can't trust PGI...

This.

I wanted the Archer because I recently started reading the books. The first book I picked up had the Archer as one of the main characters mech (Jaime Wolf). I wanted to pick up the PH since it was mentioned in some of the books I read.

I wont refund my Kodiak package, however, I won't be buying any more packages from PGI until they do something different, or at least address the issues with the Archer. The fact that I can out LRM the Archer5W with (insert mech of your choice with missile hardpoints in the 70 ton range) is disgusting and sad.

I'd like to know when the catapult A1 was produced and when the Archer 5W was made... I mean, the 5W doesn't even have the LRM quirks that the catapult does- and neither mechs have anything other than missile points!

I don't even want to start in on the other variants... At least I can run other weapons on them but damn those hitboxes seem strange to me..

[Rhent]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

From this post, I can see that your expectations were simply too high. All the non-hero mechs with 4 missile launchers per ST? Wow. The hardpoints were shown to you even before quirks. The third ST launcher size is 20 and CT launcher size for the Tempest is 10. Launcher size-wise they are completely fine.

Oh you mean I was wrong to expect the Archer to be competitive with a Catapult for LRM tubes and quirks, because GEE both mech are the personification of the LRM mech.

[QuantumButler]

It's too bad PGI had a position change regarding their position change on the Archer's quirks.

[El Bandito]

Rhent, on 17 March 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Oh you mean I was wrong to expect the Archer to be competitive with a Catapult for LRM tubes and quirks, because GEE both mech are the personification of the LRM mech.

You were wrong to say Archer missile tubes were not as good as that of Catapult's. If you go to Smurfy and compare the tube counts and tube numbers across all missile variants, the Archer is clearly superior than that of the Catapult. And as Russ said many days ago, Archer quirks are not final. Which is why people should wait instead of throwing tantrum like babies, and refunding like it is the Great Depression.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[QuantumButler]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

No, you were wrong to say Archer missile tubes were not as good as that of Catapult's. If you go to Smurfy and compare the tube counts and tube numbers across all missile variants, the Archer is clearly superior than that of the Catapult. And as Russ said many days ago, the Archer quirks are not final. Which is why people should wait instead of throwing tantrum like babies, and refunding like it is the Great Depression.

Why should people wait 60-90 days for the quirks to maybe become good if the robot is currently trash?

[Johny Rocket]

Rhent, on 16 March 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

A 45T IS Medium without ECM is going to be hard to make it OP short of massive quirks like they did for the BJ.

I've already contacted billing@mwomercs.com to get a refund. If they don't enable that, I'm more than willing to walk away and do a charge back on principle. What they advertised and what they delivered are two different things.

questioning whether you even bought this mech.
If you had you would know its a 70t heavy not a 45t medium, please do walk your troll *** away and stay where ever you go.

[QuantumButler]

Tractor Joe, on 17 March 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

questioning whether you even bought this mech.
If you had you would know its a 70t heavy not a 45t medium, please do walk your troll *** away and stay where ever you go.

He's talking about the Pleb Hawk

[Johny Rocket]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

You were wrong to say Archer missile tubes were not as good as that of Catapult's. If you go to Smurfy and compare the tube counts and tube numbers across all missile variants, the Archer is clearly superior than that of the Catapult. And as Russ said many days ago, the Archer quirks are not final. Which is why people should wait instead of throwing tantrum like babies, and refunding like it is the Great Depression.

Thank you, perfectly said.

[Johny Rocket]

QuantumButler, on 17 March 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Why should people wait 60-90 days for the quirks to maybe become good if the robot is currently trash?

So even worse he is talking about a mech that is not even released yet in a thread about an entirely different mech. Yeah troll.

As for you, starting to think you are up to the same nonsense as you have posted in every thread about this mech with glib little its trash comments..

Since RII dropped all new mechs have had underwhelming quirks to start with. Need I remind everyone of the Black Knight release? Pronounced DOA before release and is now a staple of IS drop decks everywhere.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 17 March 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[Kdogg788]

OP, you have 1800+ posts up here and have been active since late 2012. You should know based on a mech's tonnage, preliminary geometry, and the full spec set provided what you would be getting. From what I've seen they aren't horribad but not incredible either. A mech's quirks should not define it for you.

-k

[El Bandito]

QuantumButler, on 17 March 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Why should people wait 60-90 days for the quirks to maybe become good if the robot is currently trash?

Black Knight upon release was considered trash. PGI fixed its hitboxes in only 14 days. I foresee Archer quirk and possibly ST hitbox adjustments in the next monthly patch. Far sooner than the 60-90 days you magically predicted.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[Johny Rocket]

Kdogg788, on 17 March 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

OP, you have 1800+ posts up here and have been active since late 2012. You should know based on a mech's tonnage, preliminary geometry, and the full spec set provided what you would be getting. From what I've seen they aren't horribad but not incredible either. A mech's quirks should not define it for you.

-k

Good points.
I mean I should just shut up about it and let them give it quirks, Im doing quite well in it and would only see my averages go up from all the QQ that PGI will eventually give into and then Im going to really make people cry about have to face this thing.

across the board averaging 450-550 dmg with matches into the 1000 dmg range not even basiced.

Think the problem is the majority of players have no idea how to actually build the thing because their idea of a missile boat is a Stalker or Catapult which is not what you have here at all.

[QuantumButler]

Tractor Joe, on 17 March 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

So even worse he is talking about a mech that is not even released yet in a thread about an entirely different mech. Yeah troll.

As for you, starting to think you are up to the same nonsense as you have posted in every thread about this mech with glib little its trash comments..

Since RII dropped all new mechs have had underwhelming quirks to start with. Need I remind everyone of the Black Knight release? Pronounced DOA before release and is now a staple of IS drop decks everywhere.

And it was actually DOA for months until they adjusted it, so that's not really helping your case here.

[Johny Rocket]

QuantumButler, on 17 March 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

And it was actually DOA for months until they adjusted it, so that's not really helping your case here.

Sorry bud it was not months it was in the next patch. I had no problem with the BK on its release, go back to those threads and you will find me saying the exact same thing then.

They have been under quirking all new mechs or have you forgotten the whole thing with them wanting to move away from quirks as a balancing system?

As far as the Archer well I'll keep playing them while you cry because I loved it from the 1st run. Great mech in my opinion and all the crying is only going to make it better.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 17 March 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Tractor Joe, on 17 March 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Sorry bud it was not months it was in the next patch. I had no problem with the BK on its release, go back to those threads and you will find me saying the exact same thing then.

They have been under quirking all new mechs or have you forgotten the whole thing with them wanting to move away from quirks as a balancing system?

As far as the Archer well I'll keep playing them while you cry because I loved it from the 1st run. Great mech in my opinion and all the crying is only going to make it better.

No crying, just calling trash what it is.

[meteorol]

I won't even get it for Cbills. Barring massiv quirks (which it did not get), it was bound to be a **** mech.