365 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Queek Head Taker, on 26 May 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

This thread is why pgi doesn't read the forums cause you all yell lrm 5 are broken when all you need is one Ams.... And it's not like Ams is heavy speech and op your little damage chart for damage to mech for each missles size.... Give that mech one Ams and you will see hardly any damage to the mech from lrm5 but you will from the rest

Heya Queek? You know how you defeat AMS with LRM5s? Have all 5-9 on a separate "alpha" fire channel.

And even then, they are still more effective than LRM20s, 15s and 10s. Because the AMS addresses the total number of missiles inbound, but each individual LRM5 in that cluster of 25'45 missiles hits with the base LRM5 spread. Oh and recycles at base LRM5 cooldown. While handily defeating AMS.... for less tonnage and higher DPS.

This is maybe why I don't take your replies that seriously. Poorly thought out, and missing in context and understanding of the actual issue at hand.

GGClose.

[Queek Head Taker]

Just an idea... Since my summoner is running dual Ams and I help my teammates avoid been destroyed by missles why shouldn't I get points c bills or exp for helping them.... I would consider that more important then the current lrm system been revamped, cause there isn't much wrong with it


OK shoot your 5-9 lrm launchers and you will over heat like a {Dezgra}! You do lrm5 chained to avoid heat ya ******

Sorry for weird post using phone arg! Your a newb!

[cazidin]

Has anyone gotten an answer from Russ on the current state of LRMs and if PGI has any plans to buff them? Maybe we should ask at the next Town Hall?

[Bishop Steiner]

Queek Head Taker, on 26 May 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

OK shoot your 5-9 lrm launchers and you will over heat like a {Dezgra}! You do lrm5 chained to avoid heat ya ******

Sorry for weird post using phone arg! Your a newb!

OK...I liek this just for the Deadpool-esque feel, lol.

cazidin, on 26 May 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Has anyone gotten an answer from Russ on the current state of LRMs and if PGI has any plans to buff them? Maybe we should ask at the next Town Hall?

not to the best of my knowledge.

[Karl Streiger]

Queek Head Taker, on 26 May 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

Just an idea... Since my summoner is running dual Ams and I help my teammates avoid been destroyed by missles why shouldn't I get points c bills or exp for helping them.... I would consider that more important then the current lrm system been revamped, cause there isn't much wrong with it


OK shoot your 5-9 lrm launchers and you will over heat like a {Dezgra}! You do lrm5 chained to avoid heat ya ******

Sorry for weird post using phone arg! Your a newb!

You can fire 3 LRM 5 that work as improved LRM 15 and another 3 and another or 4 on 4 still better than the LRM 20.
And with better cycling time

Of course in chain Clan lrm 5 can be defeated by tripple AMS for a while but finally they will let on or two missiles slip thought.
But what if you have just two Mechs with LRM 5s

[Apnu]

17 pages of discussing LRMs. Have we heard from PGI about what they plan to do, if at all, about them?

[Apnu]

Karl Streiger, on 26 May 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

You can fire 3 LRM 5 that work as improved LRM 15 and another 3 and another or 4 on 4 still better than the LRM 20.
And with better cycling time

Of course in chain Clan lrm 5 can be defeated by tripple AMS for a while but finally they will let on or two missiles slip thought.
But what if you have just two Mechs with LRM 5s

Doesn't AMS eat up LRM5s pretty easily? AMS fires and kills a certain number of each LRM launched, not a certain percentage. So the odds of reducing damage on 3xLRM5 vs 3xLRM15 is higher. An LRM5 might have 2-3 missiles per salvo shot down, were as a LRM15 will have 2-3 missiles shot down and still deliver a good amount of spread damage.

I like LRM15s on mechs with good cooldown quirks for that reason. The 15 has a good mix of weight-to-cooldown-to-damage ratio. BUt is is not a min/max'er's choice.

[Wintersdark]

Queek Head Taker, on 26 May 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

Just an idea... Since my summoner is running dual Ams and I help my teammates avoid been destroyed by missles why shouldn't I get points c bills or exp for helping them.... I would consider that more important then the current lrm system been revamped, cause there isn't much wrong with it


OK shoot your 5-9 lrm launchers and you will over heat like a {Dezgra}! You do lrm5 chained to avoid heat ya ******

Sorry for weird post using phone arg! Your a newb!

6 LRM5's ghost heat is minimal.

My lurmdog has no issues with AMS beyond what anyone else has. It's heat neutral chain firing, and group firing all 5x5 and 1x10 (which uses the heat modifier for LRM10's, as the highest is used) it's still cool as a cucumber.

If there's 1-2 AMS, I group fire. If there's 3+AMS, I only fire around 200m where my lasers are firing too (at that point, your AMS is accomplishing practically nothing anyways).

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Doesn't AMS eat up LRM5s pretty easily? AMS fires and kills a certain number of each LRM launched, not a certain percentage. So the odds of reducing damage on 3xLRM5 vs 3xLRM15 is higher. An LRM5 might have 2-3 missiles per salvo shot down, were as a LRM15 will have 2-3 missiles shot down and still deliver a good amount of spread damage.

I like LRM15s on mechs with good cooldown quirks for that reason. The 15 has a good mix of weight-to-cooldown-to-damage ratio. BUt is is not a min/max'er's choice.

If you group fire 3x LRM5, just as many will hit as if you use 1x LRM15. And they will cluster tighter, and cycle faster.

AMS doesn't know how many launchers are being used, or size, to the best of my knowledge. Actual use certainly shows they don't.

[Wintersdark]

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Doesn't AMS eat up LRM5s pretty easily? AMS fires and kills a certain number of each LRM launched, not a certain percentage. So the odds of reducing damage on 3xLRM5 vs 3xLRM15 is higher. An LRM5 might have 2-3 missiles per salvo shot down, were as a LRM15 will have 2-3 missiles shot down and still deliver a good amount of spread damage.

I like LRM15s on mechs with good cooldown quirks for that reason. The 15 has a good mix of weight-to-cooldown-to-damage ratio. BUt is is not a min/max'er's choice.

You'll reduce a flat amount of damage. 3xLRM5 vs 3xLRM15, group fired, yeah you'll get more missiles through with the 3xLRM15. You were getting more missiles through with 3xLRM15 without AMS as well.

But they're spreading more, generating more heat, cycling slower.

But this is the important part:

3xLRM5 group fired vs. 1xLRM15, going through AMS you have the same number of missile impacts either way (AMS destroys the same number of missiles regardless, as it's simply doing DPS vs. missile health) but the 3xLRM5 is hitting in a very small spread while the LRM15's are hitting on a huge spread. And those 3xLRM5's weigh less and fire faster.

Clan side: 4.29 dps from the 3xLRM5's (3 tons, 3 slots), focused way tighter, vs. 2.73 dps from the 1xLRM15 (3.5t 2s). That is a tremendous damage output difference, and the higher damage output is focused tighter as well.

[Apnu]

Wintersdark, on 26 May 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

You'll reduce a flat amount of damage. 3xLRM5 vs 3xLRM15, group fired, yeah you'll get more missiles through with the 3xLRM15. You were getting more missiles through with 3xLRM15 without AMS as well.

But they're spreading more, generating more heat, cycling slower.

But this is the important part:

3xLRM5 group fired vs. 1xLRM15, going through AMS you have the same number of missile impacts either way (AMS destroys the same number of missiles regardless, as it's simply doing DPS vs. missile health) but the 3xLRM5 is hitting in a very small spread while the LRM15's are hitting on a huge spread. And those 3xLRM5's weigh less and fire faster.

Clan side: 4.29 dps from the 3xLRM5's (3 tons, 3 slots), focused way tighter, vs. 2.73 dps from the 1xLRM15 (3.5t 2s). That is a tremendous damage output difference, and the higher damage output is focused tighter as well.

I get the arguments about LRM5 cooldown and heat and spread vs LRM15. I thought AMS was more efficient killer of LRM5 vs LRM15. I'll have to test that out and see. I tend not to chain fire LRMs, I've watched AMS eat up streams of LRMs so I prefer to spat them to get through it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

I get the arguments about LRM5 cooldown and heat and spread vs LRM15. I thought AMS was more efficient killer of LRM5 vs LRM15. I'll have to test that out and see. I tend not to chain fire LRMs, I've watched AMS eat up streams of LRMs so I prefer to spat them to get through it.

yup, it's one trade off in favor of IS LRMs.... they are more effective at defeating AMS.

But when an MDD can slap on 6 tons of LRM5s (aka 6 launchers) and choose between no heat/screen shaking CT coring chainfire, or AMS defeating group fire at a whim, it basically means the only reason to ever consider larger launchers is limited hardpoints... and then they still aren't a good choice.

[Wintersdark]

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

I get the arguments about LRM5 cooldown and heat and spread vs LRM15. I thought AMS was more efficient killer of LRM5 vs LRM15. I'll have to test that out and see. I tend not to chain fire LRMs, I've watched AMS eat up streams of LRMs so I prefer to spat them to get through it.

Yeah, the "LRM 5s get eaten by AMS" line is referring to chainfire LRM5's. If there's AMS, you don't chainfire.

Really, just think about HOW AMS works. It's not magic, it just applies a fixed amount of DPS to one missile at a time. if 5 are coming at you, or 500 in a single volley, it makes no difference.

[DONTOR]

Damn the hit patterns lrm5 vs 20 is crazy BS, I don't use LRMs and I think that's insane.

[Bishop Steiner]

DONTOR, on 26 May 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Damn the hit patterns lrm5 vs 20 is crazy BS, I don't use LRMs and I think that's insane.

OMG DON...U TIER 2 BRO WHAT HAPPENED???

Sorry, always feel like capslocking when I see your name, lol

[davoodoo]

Just match spread on all lrms to that of lrm5 and add feature where all missiles will hit tagged location with 0 spread.

Edited by davoodoo, 26 May 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

davoodoo, on 26 May 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Just match spread on all lrms to that of lrm5 and add feature where all missiles will hit tagged location with 0 spread.

LRM5s would still have the DPS battle won though. The cooldown difference is huge, and really the only upside to larger launchers is hardpoints. Should be able to balance out their heat/recycle times, too.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 May 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

not to the best of my knowledge.

Maybe it's time a certain influential Steiner sent him a friendly reminder? Maybe one with a fondness for Urbanmechs? Maybe one who apparently draws amazing artwork in his spare time? A shame we don't know anyone like that.

[davoodoo]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

LRM5s would still have the DPS battle won though. The cooldown difference is huge, and really the only upside to larger launchers is hardpoints. Should be able to balance out their heat/recycle times, too.

Yes im aware, but then there must be some incentive to use anything lesser than your available tubes.

[IQcreditscore]

LRM 5's are hands down better in every way. Masses of them are just silly if you catch someone in the open. It happens. Unless it's a quad uac mech or something with that amount of super constant fire nothing matches missile fire chained when caught in the open.

Maybe a velocity difference between the 4 sizes would help. Buffing the 20 while nerfing the 5. The science behind it doesnt matter. It would balance them to a degree.