16 replies to this topic

[Sylvian Le Fabre]

Hey,


Short Question:

We have 3 Numbers of critical chance.
How it is works actually with Lasors, Ballistic and other things?

[DjPush]

Each weapon has a value attached to it. The possibility of the shot you take being the one that destroys a component on an enemy mech. It can be anything. A heatsink, a ton of ammo, a weapon, or even the whole section of mech. Generally, this only comes into play when a componant is exposed (i.e. the armor has been melted away). However, PPC's and Gauss are notorious for critting componants with the armor still in tact. It's rare but I've seen it happen.

Now this crit chance has three possible outcomes. Each outcome comes with its own percentage of a chance to crit:

1 componant = xx% you only lose a heat sink
2 componants = xx% you may lose a heatsink and a laser
3 componants = xx% you may lose the whole torso or arm.

The targeting computer adds an extra xx% to the already existing crit chance. It also increases sensor range, zoom range, ballistics speed, and energy range. They are pretty nice to equip, you don't see much of an improvement until you get into a size 4 or above. Then you really start to notice the difference.

[El Bandito]

Oh, and LB10X is still very bad for critting compared to regular AC10.

[DjPush]

Targeting computer doesn't apply to LBX or SRMs.

[Spheroid]

Since laser fire is divided into an undocumented number of damage "ticks" does the crit roll just apply once per energy weapon or for each of these subunits?

Also what the current extra damage caused to structure as result of a TC? Is this structure damage sufficient to justify a TC1 vs. a DHS on a 6x slas setup?

Edited by Spheroid, 17 March 2016 - 07:13 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Spheroid, on 17 March 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Since laser fire is divided into an undocumented number of damage "ticks" does the crit roll just apply once per energy weapon or for each of these subunits?

Also what the current extra damage caused to structure as result of a TC? Is this structure damage sufficient to justify a TC1 vs. a DHS on a 6x slas setup?

Lasers deal many Crits over their burn time. Dozens? A dozen?
I simplify it to 1/10 of a second for the sake of Math.

You get 15% extra real damage for all Critical damage dealt. A TC1 is always worth it, assuming you aren't using a Trash Tier Clam (a Myth Lynx has trouble mounting one, for example).

The range and Crit bonuses both indirectly increase damage.

[cazidin]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Lasers deal many Crits over their burn time. Dozens? A dozen?
I simplify it to 1/10 of a second for the sake of Math.

You get 15% extra real damage for all Critical damage dealt. A TC1 is always worth it, assuming you aren't using a Trash Tier Clam (a Myth Lynx has trouble mounting one, for example).

The range and Crit bonuses both indirectly increase damage.

Unfortunately, crit damage only applies after you strip off their armor. Is that really worth it over say, a DHS or extra laser?

[Sylvian Le Fabre]

First, Thank you all

- Is there any clear information from PGI, how many crit chances a laser beam really have? (Funktion depending on burn time?
- So if the burn time is longer, are the more chances to crit?

----------------------------

Since the structure buffs to serveral IS and CLAN Mechs, it is also a buff to the value of crit chances to these parts, or?

[Deathlike]

cazidin, on 17 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Unfortunately, crit damage only applies after you strip off their armor. Is that really worth it over say, a DHS or extra laser?

It's worth it when you're trying to finish off players with range (crit damage is affected by the base damage of the weapon, and not by distance), but that usually involves invested in only the TCv1 version.

[Mcgral18]

cazidin, on 17 March 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Unfortunately, crit damage only applies after you strip off their armor. Is that really worth it over say, a DHS or extra laser?

A heatsink gives you +1.1 heat capacity (with a base of 50) and +0.15 H/s dissipation (2.0 coming from your 10 TrueDubs).

For the 1 ton, the TC gives you more benefits. A larger TC, less so (they also buffed the TC1, making it an even better choice over the larger ones)

Sylvian Le Fabre, on 17 March 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

First, Thank you all

- Is there any clear information from PGI, how many crit chances a laser beam really have? (Funktion depending on burn time?
- So if the burn time is longer, are the more chances to crit?

----------------------------

Since the structure buffs to serveral IS and CLAN Mechs, it is also a buff to the value of crit chances to these parts, or?

Theoretically, yes, a longer laser has more chances to Crit, BUT those Crits all deal less Crit damage, meaning they need more Crits to destroy an item anyways.

The isLPL deals 1.64 Dam/0.1s, meaning it would need to roll 6 Crits to destroy a typical item, while the isERLL only has 0.72 Dam/0.10s, meaning it needs 14 Crits, a lot more.

Numbers are placeholders, but the logic should hold true to whatever mechanic PGI is using.

Items get destroyed instantly when they take 10 damage with 2 exceptions on the higher end.
FLD weapons deal all their Crit damage at once, and always deal full Crit damage, so the Gauss that hits 14 armour and rolls a Crit WILL destroy anything but an AC20 (which has a 17+TC% chance to destroy even the AC20 with 2 or more Crits).


Lasers are less good at Critting, because their Crit damage is spread throughout all items inside that component


Compare the Left Arm and Left Torso to see how crits are allocated.
Gauss will hit 1 item with 15 Crit damage, while the isLPL may hit 4 with 1.64, if it rolls a few Crits, but potentially spread out.
You still get the bonus 15% damage no matter what (even in an empty torso).

[Davegt27]

I own 11 TC1s, 4 TC2s, 2 TC3s, 2 TC4s, 1 TC5, 2 TC6s and 1 TC7

And that’s for 21 Clan Mechs you would think my K/D ratio would be higher than .86

[FaT4Li7y]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

snip
You still get the bonus 15% damage no matter what (even in an empty torso).

If crit damage is applied to overal internal structure and not to items HP only then why does Twin Gauss 30 on head never (proven in private lobby) kill a mech with 16(18) armor and heads 15HP, which is 31 at minimum? Is head an exception to that rule? We did excessive testing in the lobby and couldnt account for more damage to overall internal structure only to items being destroyed faster, which is redundant in this fast-paced gameplay. In my book there is no meaning to crits since they don't take a mech down any faster.
I always thought extra damage caused by positive crit-rolls is applied to items hp ONLY.
Please correct me if I am wrong here...
Mechs in this game seem to go down pretty much the same way EVERY time. Always the same speed of collapse according to incoming damage. No lucky crits that coincidentially once in a blue moon ever take a mech out in no time. Always the same pace of being destroyed...(hitreg is diffrent story...)

[Mcgral18]

Faktype, on 17 March 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

If crit damage is applied to overal internal structure and not to items HP only then why does Twin Gauss 30 on head never (proven in private lobby) kill a mech with 16(18) armor and heads 15HP, which is 31 at minimum? Is head an exception to that rule? We did excessive testing in the lobby and couldnt account for more damage to overall internal structure only to items being destroyed faster, which is redundant in this fast-paced gameplay. In my book there is no meaning to crits since they don't take a mech down any faster.
I always thought extra damage caused by positive crit-rolls is applied to items hp ONLY.
Please correct me if I am wrong here...
Mechs in this game seem to go down pretty much the same way EVERY time. Always the same speed of collapse according to incoming damage. No lucky crits that coincidentially once in a blue moon ever take a mech out in no time. Always the same pace of being destroyed...(hitreg is diffrent story...)

A mech with 17 armour has a 42% chance to die from a Dual Gauss headshot (30+2.25)
Max has the 17% chance, but any lower increases it a fair bit by including the 1 Crit.

Haven't done Private match testing, but I can. TCs may or may not have been broken for my above testing, but they should be fixed now, meaning a TC7 will increase the max head armour Dead% to 22.5% and a 17 armour mech to 55.5%

That's pretty likely, so it wouldn't take many tries to get it (but RNGeesus means you will need a few runs).

Obviously my vid is older (pre-new FC) but the mechanics haven't changed significantly.

[Kyle Ward]

DjPush, on 17 March 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

[...]However, PPC's and Gauss are notorious for critting componants with the armor still in tact. It's rare but I've seen it happen.[...]

That's due to bad hit reg, i cant count the times i got a ppc or gauss hitting me from the front, only for the dmg register to my back and crit something through my paperthin back armor...

[FaT4Li7y]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

A mech with 17 armour has a 42% chance to die from a Dual Gauss headshot (30+2.25)
Max has the 17% chance, but any lower increases it a fair bit by including the 1 Crit.

Haven't done Private match testing, but I can. TCs may or may not have been broken for my above testing, but they should be fixed now, meaning a TC7 will increase the max head armour Dead% to 22.5% and a 17 armour mech to 55.5%

That's pretty likely, so it wouldn't take many tries to get it (but RNGeesus means you will need a few runs).

Obviously my vid is older (pre-new FC) but the mechanics haven't changed significantly.

We did about 10 to 15 runs in 2 DWFs with twin Gauss 1 on 1 in private lobby only headshotting each other with double- gauss on 16 head armor (16+15=31) and NEVER were able to one-shot the other. The be more precise - the paperdoll showed exactly the same shade of red every single time.

[Mcgral18]

Faktype, on 17 March 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

We did about 10 to 15 runs in 2 DWFs with twin Gauss 1 on 1 in private lobby only headshotting each other with double- gauss on 16 head armor (16+15=31) and NEVER were able to one-shot the other. The be more precise - the paperdoll showed exactly the same shade of red every single time.

I'd have to ask you when you did the test.
Took 5 matches for ours (various mechs, head armour, TC settings). If it was before the most recent patch, TCs were broken (no TC having the highest Crit rate). Seemingly fixed this patch.

Ended up getting a fully armoured head to pop, using a TC6. The lowly 22%, but RNGeesus being RNGeesus did as he does.

http://imgur.com/a/fx0ws

Pics in there.


Maybe get a Vid some point later, but with a 55% chance (with 16-17 armour), it shouldn't take too many attempts.
As seen above, even 18, full, armour is still possible.

Just have to deal with RNGeesus.

[Chuck Jager]

the target info time is also about the same as the module so that plus the other bonuses makes a tc1 pretty good.

The way the games are going lately I have been just doing as big O alpha as possible then moving. It is not about the cool down, but the ability to maximize each poke. Folks are being more and more careful/cowardly and not supporting pushes. It seems that heat efficiency is kinda out the window.