14 replies to this topic

[Malleus011]

There’s this game that is kind of similar to other games but has its own take on the genre. It has a bunch of different avatars with minor differences, but the game really breaks down into four classes:

Rogues – quick, agile, but fragile, specialize in hitting the enemy hard where they are weakest.
Rangers – a hybrid between Rogues and Warriors, a good all-rounder
Warriors – slower, tough, with a lot of offensive power
Knights – the slowest, toughest, and most dangerous, but clumsy

And three main weapons:

Swords – the best all-round weapon, the mainstay of battle. Has light, close in, fast version, the goto shortsword, and the more powerful broadswords and longswords.
Battleaxes – kind of like swords, but drain stamina fast. Light versions and the brutal but slow greataxe.
Magic – capable of combat completely unlike the other two, including hitting an enemy that can’t hit back. Has close-in and long-ranged variations.

Now, in this fantasy game, every class can choose whatever they weapon they want. So you can run a Sword Ranger or a Warrior-Magician or whatever. Each combination offers a different combat style. There are even hybrids who can combine sword and axe, or axe and magic, or what have you.

But long-range Magic has tons of hard counters – amulets, shields, and so forth – and long-range magic is completely useless in competitive play. Yep. That means one of the three main combat styles is pretty much useless in the late game.

That sounds broken, right?

Sound familiar?

Because that’s MWO.

[ColourfulConfetti]

I love the common misconception that wearing plate armor makes you slow and clumsy. An amusingly inaccurate myth that amazingly still perseveres.

Back on topic, if it came down to laser vomit vs lrms, the vomit would win, and that's how is should be really, lrms shouldn't be getting comparable alphas at long range. Laser vomit is powerful because of how fast you can melt a single component and lrms in comparisons spread damage all over the place, putting lrms on a comparable level would involve massive buffs, something I'm pretty certain the community does not want to see. Just my two cents.

[FupDup]

By long-range magic, do you mean LRMs or long-range lasers and ballistics?

This is important, because it will either confirm or refute your statement of long-range magic being useless.


The reason I ask this is because I would assume that ER Large Lasers and Gauss Rifles sure as heck aren't swords or axes, because of the fact that they have such great ranges. The sword/axe analogy only works for brawling weapons, everything else is basically "magic" by definition here.

Or, perhaps add a fourth weapon type of Bow + Arrow to cover that.

Edited by FupDup, 17 March 2016 - 12:05 PM.

[Digital Pseudonym]

yawn

[Zolaz]

The 11th Malleus is as entertaining as the 10 before him.

[NoiseCrypt]

Hmm... LRM Boat.... Archer.... hmm ....OMG... LRM Boats are archers....
And archers gets shredded when they are caught by the dudes with swords, axes and what not....

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 17 March 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[John1352]

Magic does include a special spell that counters the counters, it is called No Amulets, Reduced Cover effectiveness. It allows a sneaky rogue to debuff an enemy, allowing the warrior magicians and knight magicians to be highly effective while opponents need to maneuver to fight back.

Also, Short Range Magic is kind of like the opening battle of this: (some violence)
https://youtu.be/yv3DedNXN4o

Edited by John1352, 17 March 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Amsro]

[NoiseCrypt]

See... even Hollywood says that archers are useless in your "medieval/fantasy" analogy...

[Aetes Nakatomi]

LRMs should be used to soften up targets so your direct fire Mechs can start their combat vs damaged mechs. LRMs are never going to be a good kill securing weapon system due to the randomness of the hits on the enemies.

The problem is that if you take that LRM mech out of the team, give it direct fire weapons and add it to the firing line it's direct damage is always going to be worth more than its higher random LRM damage was due to the nature of alpha strikes in MWO.

I am hoping ghost heat 2.0 somewhat fixes this.

[Death Proof]

PalmaRoma, on 17 March 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

I love the common misconception that wearing plate armor makes you slow and clumsy. An amusingly inaccurate myth that amazingly still perseveres.

Yeah, if anything it just makes you noisier.

While it doesn't make you slower or clumsier, it does restrict certain types of movement (tumbling, acrobatics, etc) and makes it harder to perform certain physical activities (climbing, swimming, etc.). I think that's where some of the myth comes from.

/digression

[Foxwalker]

What???? Just saying. Really strange analogy.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Death Proof, on 17 March 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yeah, if anything it just makes you noisier.

While it doesn't make you slower or clumsier, it does restrict certain types of movement (tumbling, acrobatics, etc) and makes it harder to perform certain physical activities (climbing, swimming, etc.). I think that's where some of the myth comes from.

/digression

It derived from jousting armor, which was quite heavy and much thicker than most traditional plate armor, cause it was designed to withstand the momentum of being hit by a lance while your opponent was on horseback. I've seen a few videos of people doing cartwheels and pull ups with traditional plate armor, it's surprisingly lighter than most think since it's evenly distributed across your body.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 17 March 2016 - 01:28 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I'm Mr. T, and I'm a Night Elf MOHAWK!

[Exilyth]

If you're not rolling for awareness every so often, someone will backstab you with a ballista. A *********** siege weapon!

Malleus011, on 17 March 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

But long-range Magic has tons of hard counters – amulets, shields, and so forth – and long-range magic is completely useless in competitive play.

I like how you conveniently forget the weight limit imposed on everyones body, which forces people to choose between protection, counters and weaponry. Also, the Amulet of long range Magic Subtraction does not completely negate spell damage.

Just like with bolt throwers, dodging spells is more effective than any counter.