40 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

Do you want to see some actual interesting strategy in this game? Really the only place you can get that is in an organized competitive match. Conquest plays a huge role in Drop 4 and Drop 5 of this series:

https://youtu.be/1qZDU_ETqz4?t=1h5m52s

[Gyrok]

Darkfieros, on 20 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

Clearly you don't get my point, in that why have the other options, if you're not going to give meaningful rewards for accomplishing it. Take your bad attitude elsewhere as the conversation is not for you and above your head.

The Management Whining PUG

Because people, like you, complained that there were not enough modes...so PGI came up with new ways to put small wrinkles on TDM.

MWO = TDM in Free World Speak.

[Darkfieros]

Gyrok, on 21 March 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

Because people, like you, complained that there were not enough modes...so PGI came up with new ways to put small wrinkles on TDM.

MWO = TDM in Free World Speak.

Actually, been playing this game a LONG time and I just don't come on the forums because of trolls like you. But if you are going to have multiple avenues to win a game then those methods should be compensated properly. Go cry somewhere else about your beloved TDM, because this isn't that post.

[TexAce]

Alistair Winter, on 20 March 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

To be honest, I'm ecstatic that more and more people are talking about the bad game modes in MWO. They've sort of been ignored for a long time, but I think people are starting to realize that they are indeed 50 shades of deathmatch.

PGI devs need to play other PVP games, and so do MWO players. Then they'll realize what they're missing out on.

Problem is, I have yet to read a suggestion for a gamemode, in which an objective, that does not include to kill the enemy team, is more fun than killing the enemy team.

Let's be honest, people want to shoot each others face off. They dont want to travel to boxes and stand there, they dont want to be forced to cap a point or anything else. They just want to fight.

So any gamemode that is supposed to be liked has to include killing mechs. And no one has suggested a gamemode yet which incorporates killing mechs with anything more fun than just killing mechs.

And if you add in the requirement to NOT have respawns it becomes near impossible.

Even a simple convoy/escort mode would not work. People would just deathball the "golden duck".
Then you would have to give the duck triple armor or any other arbritary **** that pushes this game even more towards arcade.

EDIT: While typing this I realized I might have an idea.....

Edited by TexAce, 21 March 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[Variant1]

no no no OP we need MORE deathmatch. Mechwarrior has always been about big mechs destroying each other otherwise whats the point of having weapons? what we need is more modes that have deathmatch in it like say a VIP mode or a convoy mode, or destroy the base mode etc.


More deathmatch modes but with different side objective, and larger maps that force teams to split rather then group as an added twist would be nice

[TexAce]

Darkfieros, on 21 March 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually, been playing this game a LONG time and I just don't come on the forums because of trolls like you. But if you are going to have multiple avenues to win a game then those methods should be compensated properly. Go cry somewhere else about your beloved TDM, because this isn't that post.

Conquest gives you a lot more Cbills than any other gamemode per match.

And as you might know, its not really the people's favorite mode.

[Gyrok]

Darkfieros, on 21 March 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually, been playing this game a LONG time and I just don't come on the forums because of trolls like you. But if you are going to have multiple avenues to win a game then those methods should be compensated properly. Go cry somewhere else about your beloved TDM, because this isn't that post.

Not crying about TDM, but tired of posts about why is everything TDM? or Why is anything but TDM not well compensated?

Your post *IS PRECISELY* that post...L2ReadingComprehension.

As was pointed out to you earlier...the modes exist to make TDM different. That is all.

Alternate win conditions are simply there to avoid a draw. Legitimately, that is their only purpose for existence.

Looking for some deeper meaning from those alternate win conditions is not going to make them magically supposed to be something they are not. Go cry in your corner about TDM some more.

-The Management.

[Novakaine]

Simple solution far larger maps.
When two opposing can close with each in 3 minutes.
What do you expect?
Then add in the 15 minute time limit.
Not much to do but kill the enemy.
But then again some moron in his wounded spider will run.
To the furthest corner and hide.
I think PGi should just scrap current system.
And do this for modes.
Modes:
2 vs 2: You and your wing man vs those punks from Team Oxide.
4 vs 4: Team Oxide is back and they want a rematch, call in some backup.
8 vs 8: A more manageable skirmish with some objectives thrown in for fun.
12 vs.12: Line in the sand, just the usual mech brawl fest.
Leave CW as is.

[C E Dwyer]

Triordinant, on 20 March 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

PGI should go back to letting players choose which modes they want to play. That way you're always playing for the victory conditions you choose and everyone on both teams chose to play for those victory conditions too.

yes they should the lame deathballers are just voting for Skirmish, Crimson straights Canyon, or a cold map, and its making some people want to play less, because they are not getting to play the modes they want often enough.

[Triordinant]

Cathy, on 21 March 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

yes they should the lame deathballers are just voting for Skirmish, Crimson straights Canyon, or a cold map, and its making some people want to play less, because they are not getting to play the modes they want often enough.

Exactly. Whether you're a fan of Conquest, Skirmish or whatever, if everyone gets to choose then you know everyone in your match is there because they want to be there, not because they were outvoted and just pissed off.

[Alistair Winter]

TexAce, on 21 March 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Problem is, I have yet to read a suggestion for a gamemode, in which an objective, that does not include to kill the enemy team, is more fun than killing the enemy team.

They're not suggestions for game modes. They're actual game modes from games that are far, far more popular than MWO. You have to remember, the bad game modes was one of the points that led to bad reviews for MWO when it was 'released'.

Of course, some people don't like any game modes except team deathmatch and deathmatch. It's always been like that, which is why most (but not all) popular FPS games include those two. There's always the "just bleed" demographic.

TexAce, on 21 March 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Let's be honest, people want to shoot each others face off. They dont want to travel to boxes and stand there, they dont want to be forced to cap a point or anything else. They just want to fight.
So any gamemode that is supposed to be liked has to include killing mechs. And no one has suggested a gamemode yet which incorporates killing mechs with anything more fun than just killing mechs.
And if you add in the requirement to NOT have respawns it becomes near impossible.

I'm not even gonna pitch any new ideas. I'll just say "Go play some popular FPS / combat sim / space sim games and look at their game modes". You can say they all suck and I'll say "They have millions of people playing for a reason."

TexAce, on 21 March 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Even a simple convoy/escort mode would not work. People would just deathball the "golden duck".
Then you would have to give the duck triple armor or any other arbritary **** that pushes this game even more towards arcade.

So many solutions to this problem. So many solutions. How about this:

• Make the objective (e.g. mobile field base / drone / whatever) indestructible, or virtually indestructible, just like the flag from CTF or the bomb from 'Plant the bomb'.
  
• Huge punishment for people who destroy the objective (e.g. mobile field base / drone / whatever), just like 'Hostage Rescue' in CounterStrike.

And if you want to see how assassination game modes work, just check out Star Conflict. Essentially, one guy is the commander. As long as a commander is alive, teammates get to respawn. When the commander dies, no more respawns. Even if you lose your commander, you can still win the match by killing the enemy commander and then killing the other team. So deathballing doesn't really work, because it's like a game of chess; both teams need to protect their king.

Just go out and play other games. So many fun game modes out there, and we're left with:

• Team deathmatch
  
• Team deathmatch with squares
  
• Team deathmatch with 5 squares
  
• Team deathmatch with big circle

[Koniving]

MrMadguy, on 20 March 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that if PGI will give all rewards for capping - players will completely ignore each other and will cap only. And PGI don't want to give rewards for free. That's, what happened with Assault - players started to ignore each other and perform NASCAR cap rushes instead. This leaded to implementation of Skirmish. That's, what happens with Domination now. 25K CB for 1 minute match - is much more effective, than trying to actually play this mode.

That's because no one defended. Admittedly the losing side made NO money originally and so they either fought to protect their base, rushed to steal a base, or complained because they had no money and repair and rearm punished them for NASCARing.


Then PGI gave token 80% free ammo, and LURMpocalypse and ballistics became popular. PGI gave 25,000 free for losing, and people stopped caring about fighting at all because you made money and lost nothing if no one fought, capture the bases!

Then PGI removed repair and rearm and made it so that capturing the base earned some minuscule amount like 350 cbills or some ****, and farming the system wasn't really worthwhile anymore. Winning by capture used to net 75,000 cbills minimum!

If PGI didn't give free **** for 'just standing around', we'd still be in a pretty decent boat where objectives could have mattered. Just need to assign defense as well as offense, and for the love of ******* god who captures a base by "Standing around?!" How about shooting things in the base? How about squishing little infantry? Destroying fleeing vehicles? Or depositing the Battletech equivalent of a swat team down into the building to flush it out? Hell pull out a goddamn laptop or hit some buttons on the damn dashboard, look like you win by doing something, something other than standing there!

Fast capture nodes -- or better yet, fast base destruction.
Multiple objectives, with semi-linear orders to complete them. Do this. Now do this and this in either order. Now do that. You won.
Instead of "Stand in square. You win."

Alistair Winter, on 21 March 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

And if you want to see how assassination game modes work, just check out Star Conflict. Essentially, one guy is the commander. As long as a commander is alive, teammates get to respawn. When the commander dies, no more respawns. Even if you lose your commander, you can still win the match by killing the enemy commander and then killing the other team. So deathballing doesn't really work, because it's like a game of chess; both teams need to protect their king.

This actually sounds really good. CW would really benefit from this. As could quickplay.

Edited by Koniving, 21 March 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[ArmandTulsen]

LordNothing, on 20 March 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

id rather they get rid of the capping and do a bunch of deathmatch type game modes, including real deathmath with respawn and no teams. you could have skirmish, free for all (respawn), last man standing (ffa, one mech), lance ffa, last lance standing, etc. quick play needs to be 100% murder.

and you dont have to kill the other modes either. give them drop decks and merge them into fw. that will make them playable.

Lance FFA with no respawn is absolute genius. You could apply 1/1/1/1 for everybody, so people all don't load up assault mechs.

[Darkfieros]

Variant1, on 21 March 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

no no no OP we need MORE deathmatch. Mechwarrior has always been about big mechs destroying each other otherwise whats the point of having weapons? what we need is more modes that have deathmatch in it like say a VIP mode or a convoy mode, or destroy the base mode etc.


More deathmatch modes but with different side objective, and larger maps that force teams to split rather then group as an added twist would be nice

I agree with you. My point here is that if you are going to have conditions like conquest, where a mech could spend a whole match capping and not get much pvp, that person ends up with no exp or cbills to accomplish those ends. I actually would love to see more variants with bonus tdk matches. This post is designed to start the conversation about why have a game mode with a specific objective to win and not be rewarded properly for it. or for people to drop suggestions.

Gyrok, on 21 March 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

Not crying about TDM, but tired of posts about why is everything TDM? or Why is anything but TDM not well compensated?

Your post *IS PRECISELY* that post...L2ReadingComprehension.

As was pointed out to you earlier...the modes exist to make TDM different. That is all.

Alternate win conditions are simply there to avoid a draw. Legitimately, that is their only purpose for existence.

Looking for some deeper meaning from those alternate win conditions is not going to make them magically supposed to be something they are not. Go cry in your corner about TDM some more.

-The Management.

You can't steal my tag line.

The Real Management

[TexAce]

Alistair Winter, on 21 March 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

They're not suggestions for game modes. They're actual game modes from games that are far, far more popular than MWO. You have to remember, the bad game modes was one of the points that led to bad reviews for MWO when it was 'released'.

Of course, some people don't like any game modes except team deathmatch and deathmatch. It's always been like that, which is why most (but not all) popular FPS games include those two. There's always the "just bleed" demographic.



I'm not even gonna pitch any new ideas. I'll just say "Go play some popular FPS / combat sim / space sim games and look at their game modes". You can say they all suck and I'll say "They have millions of people playing for a reason."


So many solutions to this problem. So many solutions. How about this:

• Make the objective (e.g. mobile field base / drone / whatever) indestructible, or virtually indestructible, just like the flag from CTF or the bomb from 'Plant the bomb'.
  
• Huge punishment for people who destroy the objective (e.g. mobile field base / drone / whatever), just like 'Hostage Rescue' in CounterStrike.

And if you want to see how assassination game modes work, just check out Star Conflict. Essentially, one guy is the commander. As long as a commander is alive, teammates get to respawn. When the commander dies, no more respawns. Even if you lose your commander, you can still win the match by killing the enemy commander and then killing the other team. So deathballing doesn't really work, because it's like a game of chess; both teams need to protect their king.


Just go out and play other games. So many fun game modes out there, and we're left with:

• Team deathmatch
  
• Team deathmatch with squares
  
• Team deathmatch with 5 squares
  
• Team deathmatch with big circle

Here is my take on it:
http://mwomercs.com/...for-quick-play/

[Wolfways]

Alistair Winter, on 20 March 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

To be honest, I'm ecstatic that more and more people are talking about the bad game modes in MWO. They've sort of been ignored for a long time, but I think people are starting to realize that they are indeed 50 shades of deathmatch.

PGI devs need to play other PVP games, and so do MWO players. Then they'll realize what they're missing out on.

I have little knowledge of other recent fps games, but what games have different modes from skirmish that don't have respawn? (genuine question)

I used to play an fps called WarRock many years ago that had a no respawn mode on small maps and a ticket counter mode (like BF) on bigger maps, and the no respawn queues were always empty because watching a match after you die is boring whereas respawn keeps you invested in the whole match (yes I'm one of the few players that would like to see respawn and/or repair in MWO).
Because there's no respawn in QP and matches only last up to 15 minutes I just can't make myself be really bothered about winning, and 30 minute FW matches aren't much better.

[Krivvan]

Wolfways, on 21 March 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

I have little knowledge of other recent fps games, but what games have different modes from skirmish that don't have respawn? (genuine question)

Counterstrike.

[Alistair Winter]

Wolfways, on 21 March 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

I have little knowledge of other recent fps games, but what games have different modes from skirmish that don't have respawn? (genuine question)

I used to play an fps called WarRock many years ago that had a no respawn mode on small maps and a ticket counter mode (like BF) on bigger maps, and the no respawn queues were always empty because watching a match after you die is boring whereas respawn keeps you invested in the whole match (yes I'm one of the few players that would like to see respawn and/or repair in MWO).
Because there's no respawn in QP and matches only last up to 15 minutes I just can't make myself be really bothered about winning, and 30 minute FW matches aren't much better.

Yeah, CounterStrike like Krivvan said. You'll also find some combat sims, I think. ArmoredWarfare is one example, although its game modes are kind of boring, to be honest. Similar to the MWO ones.

[Solarise]

Capping does not give you alot of match score, cbill n exp, that is why killing mechs is always the prefered choice = Deathmatch.

[wicm]

May be we could rename the game and it wouldn't attract so many aggressive people..Like " Mechs standing in a box"....just saying.