192 replies to this topic

[Kuritaclan]

Ghogiel, on 21 March 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

It's up to you if you want to report. But the CoC nakes no uncertain quibbles about suiciding being griefing and forbidden.

And there we see why the CoC is a fail in itself. Okay beeing down a man in every match, because Mr suicide kills him self on the match start isn't fun. But it is what it is. Punishing him for doing so doesn't serve anything. He will procide anyway. Thats like Mr. AFK guy. Deal with the situation. Reporting such behavior doesn't change it anyway. And even if Mr. everytime AFK, Sucide or whatever get perma ban. He will make a new account and go on with it. It's a time waste for the reporter and those who need to look into the case. And it only bind time away from important cases. What again says everything about the stupid CoC.

[Lugh]

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

There are several rules, that you should take into account:
1) Dying at the end of match - isn't suicide. Suicide - is dying fast right after beginning of match to quit map/mode you don't like without any contribution towards victory. If you already contributed - it isn't suicide. Otherwise any attack on enemy 'Mechs will be considered suicide, which is nonsense. Being weaker than enemies, outnumbered, having small chances to succeed or being damaged - aren't valid excuses for avoiding engagement. The only valid excuse - being completely weaponless.
2) Avoiding engaging with enemy 'Mechs is against COC
-Nonsense. If I have only 4 meduims or 3 or 2 or 1 medium left vs a fresh mech you better believe I am going to engage and manuever to be at an advantage. SO SORRY THAT inconviences your entitled backside.
3) Needlessly dragging match out is against COC
Is never the case when: Engage and manuever to be at an advantage. SO SORRY THAT inconviences your entitled backside.
4) Enemies have right to secure their win - they're not obligated to chase you or search for you. So, it's up to you to engage with them.
UTTER BS. They are absolutely obligated to chase and search for you. If they do not know how to search by quarters and prevent retreat that is THEIR problem. Not Yours.

So. You can use tactical hiding ("short term hiding") - i.e. hide at place, enemies know, that you're at, pass enemies by, ambush them. But you should never hide at places, enemies don't know - it's treated as "avoiding engaging". "Setting up ambush at the corner of the map" - isn't valid tactic. Remember? They aren't obligated to search for you . You keep saying this but it still isn't true. You can keep some distance between you and enemies in order to increase chances of successive attacks. But you can't play "survival squirrel" - i.e. just run around map, keeping safe distance only to drag the match out. OMG FINALLY you said something true. It should also be noted that there is a distinct difference between running with no weapons and running with any weapons to get to a position where they can be used in ambush.

I really hope, Skirmish will be fixed soon, so players will have limited engage timer, so they won't be able to hide for 10 minutes. 75 second in my example. This timer expires - you automatically lose. Every mode has conditions, that prevent players from playing way too passively and using unfair starvation tactics. Except Skirmish. You can't run away and hide at Assault, Conquest and Domination. You hide - you lose. Hiding is against intended spirit of Skirmish. And Skirmish should be fixed.

There are a number of mistakes in your post. I've corrected and added the correct bold statements to this reply.

Enjoy.

Edited by Lugh, 21 March 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[VonRunnegen]

Stryker Ezekiel, on 21 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Lights that drag the game on against a mass (Average 4 or more) should just bite the bullet, wasting peoples time otherwise, no if and, or butts about it, 8+ minutes of holding people up for your 'chance' kill one maybe two more before one gausses you in the face, not worth a ten minute holdout for my next game in that Mech.

Having won many (edit: well, some) games in my Jenner against 4+ enemy mechs I disagree strongly. OK, I've no ECM and never power down/hide, just circle terrain / double back / pause for a few seconds to make them think I've gone a different way etc. Still, sometimes I'll lose and you could say it was a waste of time, but if I've any shot of winning at all then going for it is the right choice. I'm not here to help you grind, I'm here to play & win a team game.

The code of conduct does not in any way prevent me doing so as I can and will try to win, which is the whole point. Otherwise should we just look at our team composition and communication at the start and if it's bad insta-suicide as we're probably on the losing side? Less time wasted after all.

Edited by VonRunnegen, 21 March 2016 - 09:08 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Kuritaclan, on 21 March 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

And there we see why the CoC is a fail in itself. Okay beeing down a man in every match, because Mr suicide kills him self on the match start isn't fun. But it is what it is. Punishing him for doing so doesn't serve anything. He will procide anyway. Thats like Mr. AFK guy. Deal with the situation. Reporting such behavior doesn't change it anyway. And even if Mr. everytime AFK, Sucide or whatever get perma ban. He will make a new account and go on with it. It's a time waste for the reporter and those who need to look into the case. And it only bind time away from important cases. What again says everything about the stupid CoC.

No one cares what anyone elses opinion on the matter is. PGI made it easy to report now with the ingame feature, so it can be done in 3seconds in match, it's up each player to report for whatever reason and for PGI to sort it out not us.

[Krivvan]

I think in the end all this thread boils down to is that Skirmish is a dumb game mode for deathmatching.

[Beaching Betty]

You have the right to use up the 15 minutes of the game. but oh well, people are still gonna report you, PUG noob tier 5 life

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

As I already said. Hiding for no more, than one minute total, in order to improve your position - is tolerable. But once you have hidden somewhere at the map, so enemies have to go and search for you - you're avoiding engagement, needlessly dragging out the match, running out the clock - and it's against COC. So if enemies don't see you within some tolerable amount of time - they have a right to report you for being AFK. As they can't see you - they can't say if this is true or not. And they can't rely of what you and your team say, cuz you're enemies for them. Playing survival squirrel - is more tolerable. But if you do it for too long without trying to fight against enemies - it sill can be treated as avoiding engaging, dragging out the match or even griefing. As simple, as that. It's rules. Deal with it.

Sigh!

Do I have to relate that match again in which:

• I was last person standing.
  
• There were 4 enemies left.
  
• The clock had 8 minutes remaining.
  
• I spent 6 minutes hiding and stalking while remaining fully undetected.
  
• In the final 2 minutes I killed all 4 with mere seconds to spare.

Patience is a virtue, especially when hunting prey who arrogantly think they are the predators.

Stryker Ezekiel, on 21 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Lights that drag the game on against a mass (Average 4 or more) should just bite the bullet, wasting peoples time otherwise, no if and, or butts about it, 8+ minutes of holding people up for your 'chance' kill one maybe two more before one gausses you in the face, not worth a ten minute holdout for my next game in that Mech.

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 21 March 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[Mystere]

mogs01gt, on 21 March 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

I dont believe the OP was attacking anyone. I've never seen anyone say "Im reporting you" when the last mech is still firing shots.

You'd be surprised how many ADHD-suffering "little emperor" types play this game.

[Mystere]

QuantumButler, on 21 March 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

If you want people to stop crying that you're wasting their time then you should stop wasting their time.

I say let the poor impatient bast@rds cry.

Edited by Mystere, 21 March 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[Mystere]

Ghogiel, on 21 March 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

The most clear way is when the team mates of the player dragging the match out also gets annoyed

Well, the best way to shut them up is to kill every enemy left ... or die trying.

But no one is under any obligation to hurry. As I said previously:

Mystere, on 21 March 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

Patience is a virtue, especially when hunting prey who arrogantly think they are the predators.

Edited by Mystere, 21 March 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[Mystere]

Krivvan, on 21 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

I think in the end all this thread boils down to is that Skirmish is a dumb game mode for deathmatching.

I blame all the really dumb people who demanded this dumb game mode against all advice to the contrary.

[Ghogiel]

Mystere, on 21 March 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Well, the best way to shut them up is to kill every enemy left ... or die trying.

But no one is under any obligation to hurry. As I said previously:

no, but they are under obligation to not needlessly drag it out as per CoC either

[Jay Leon Hart]

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

4) Enemies have right to secure their win - they're not obligated to chase you or search for you. So, it's up to you to engage with them.

Nope, they have the right to try and kill me. I have no obligation to run into their crosshairs (though I normally do when I don't think I can win)

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 21 March 2016 - 10:12 AM.

[Kuritaclan]

Mystere, on 21 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

I say let the poor impatient bast@rds cry.

I would like to have an auto sign of at the end. What suggests to leave the game after death and you have to actively click a button to watch the game beyond. And by doing so you are excluded of any rights, since it is your choice to watch it. Not that it needs it, because it is everybody's decision to stay and watch or leave. But at least this would make clear that any influence into the game from the tribune is a no go, if it isn't helpful to your teammates.

[kesmai]

you are all reported for reporting a reported reporter.

*will that make me a reporting reported reporting reporter repo re*

ah, screw that crap.

[Jables McBarty]

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

You don't have a right to judge other players. You're nobody here. In most cases it's terrible matchmaker, that is the cause of stomp. So you admit, that you actually grief other players? Then why do you wonder, when they give your position? Do you know, that encouraging other players to violate COC - is griefing and also against COC?

Tristan Winter, on 21 March 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

I always follow the COC, but the COC don't require you to suicide to save time for your teammates. If the score is 11-0 and I'm going up against 12 enemy mechs, alone in my ECM Mist Lynx, I have every opportunity to play until the bell rings, if I want to. I can snipe and run until the cows come home, if I want to. As long as I'm in the fight, I can keep going as long as I feel like. It's not against the COC to keep fighting against impossible odds.

I don't wonder why people give their teammates' position. People are jerks. Especially on the internet.

"You're nobody here". lol. So dramatic.

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Ok. I said all I wanted. I hate circular discussions and explaining same things personally to everybody. If you don't understand something - read my posts again.

Just to recap that conversation:
>MadGuy cites CoC conduct and expresses arbitrary opinion* that X is griefing
>Tristan expresses counter-opinion that X is not griefing, suggests that OP do what OP wants
>MadGuy re-cites CoC and tells Tristan that he is griefing by encouraging other people to be griefing, because in his opinion X is griefing.

*Opinions are not facts. It is up to PGI to determine what defines griefing in specific contexts, as the CoC is pretty broad on this. Based on what they gave us there is lots of room for interpretation. Hence this thread.

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Don't waste my time. I won't return to MWO, till all it's problems won't be solved. Game modes are #2 (fix map/mode design) and Lights are #3 (fix balance) in my list of things, that should be fixed.

If you don't want us to waste your time, maybe you shouldn't spend all of it trolling the forums for a game you don't even play.

[Chuck Jager]

There is nothing against the TOS about using the possibility of a Report to make somebody nervous about a possible report. Hopefully they then start to engage more. If 2 folks see the laser beam they will be able to trap the light more easily.

Yes it is a BS trick, but a lot less so than poking from a distance while the real fighters on the team are dead.

People continually use "tactics" as a code word for "fat lazy coward who never got picked for a real sport".

[ArmandTulsen]

I assume this is skirmish?

If so, you're wasting people's time. The probability of you winning against them by laser poking people from a distance and running away to reposition is so close to 0% that the amount >0 maybe as well be on the subatomic scale.

You gain less c-bills overtime as well, since you could easily end it and rejoin another match.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 21 March 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Krivvan]

Mystere, on 21 March 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

I blame all the really dumb people who demanded this dumb game mode against all advice to the contrary.

People always say "go play skirmish instead if you want to play deathmatch" without understanding that Skirmish is essentially just flawed Conquest or Assault when it comes to deathmatch.

[Cybrid 0x0t2md2w]

as others have said, last man alive dies fighting, even if it's run and pot shots. But don't run too long without engaging. if the enemy complains because they are all slow heavies and they can't shoot you enough, that's a shame for them. Keep pot shotting to the end or until they get you or leg you.