192 replies to this topic

[Thunderbird Anthares]

OP, that is the time where you tell them to kindly go screw themselves, with a rake

also

MW:LL is love
MW:LL is life

[Mystere]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 23 March 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

OP, that is the time where you tell them to kindly go screw themselves, with a rake

I myself just type on chat:

Am I hearing dead people?

and continue to do my thing.

[Alardus]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 21 March 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

I'll tell you what pretty much everyone will tell you. If you're the last mech standing because you're in an ECM light, and you're just running away at the end of the match and not engaging at all, then you're against TOS.

If you're engaging you're technically in the right, but keep in mind, you ARE holding up everyone else's mechs for the remainder of the match. Granted everyone signed up for a 15 minute match, but watching a lame dual ERLL ECM raven run around and poke at range isn't exactly fun for the rest of us.

You know what happens in CSGO competitive if you quit a match early cause you hate it? You get a ban. I don't really give a flying monkeys **** if people have their mech locked up. Thats why you fart around with a champ mech or actually have more than one ride in the stable. You decided to play a match that could take up to 15 to end. Is it fair? Absolutely. Because its unfair to force them to suicide to get your little metamech out again quickly. L2P should encompass learning to accept when you should get in another match with another mech. As you know, I have no love lost for lights, but I would want the same for myself if I were in their position. I wouldn't want the match to just end without me doing my best because "Im the only one left".

Should we then say "if there's only 2 left and 10 guys, we should end the match or report them for griefing"? What about 4 and 6?

[Volthorne]

MrMadguy, on 23 March 2016 - 12:58 AM, said:

You're winning match for your team via cheating too. Should we allow it?

That is covered in the CoC too. Perhaps you should go read it! I don't mean look at it and say you read it, I mean actually READ it.

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In all other cases avoiding engaging - is against COC. You are using unfair and unlegitimate starvation tactic via holding other players as hostages. This is wrong and should be fixed. Try to win, but using legitimate tactic - via attacking enemy players.

Hate to break it to you, but there's a saying that goes "everything is fair in love and war". If you spend 3 minutes maneuvering to get to a spot where it is disadvantageous for the enemy team to come and fight you, that's a valid tactic. If you hide for just long enough to spread out and separate the enemy team to make them easier to fight, that's a valid tactic. If you manage to enrage the enemy team to the point where they're frothing at the mouth and can't think OR aim straight, that's a valid tactic too. By the way, it's "illegitimate", not "unlegitimate".

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They have a choice: risk to lose or waste their time. They are not obligated to risk to lose, but you're literally forcing them to do it, via exploiting lack of anit-non-participation mechanic in Skirmish.

They are obligated to risk losing, because that is one of the terms they accepted when that "Quick Play" button was pressed. If a terms of agreement for the QP button was written out, it would read something like:

"By clicking this button, you agree to the following conditions:

• The match shall be given a maximum run time of 15 minutes. Both teams are free to utilize this time as they see fit
  
• Both teams are to put their best effort towards claiming victory over their opponents
  
• Both teams accept the risk that they may lose the match, despite their best efforts
  
• Under no circumstances are either team to be forced to surrender outside of their own will
  
• Individual players are not subject to the total will of either team, and may continue to act in the best interest of their team if the end goal is victory

PGI reserves the right... blah blah legalese"

... Pretty much.

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Remember. Having small chances to win in fair fight - ISN'T VALID EXCUSE for avoiding engaging.

See above.

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It's matchmaker's problems, that it wanted to force you to lose, match was unbalanced and your team was stomped. Nobody is special. W/L should be = 1 for everybody, except top players. So you HAVE TO LOSE in 50% cases and you have to learn to accept your loses. If you don't want to accept your loses - then PVP game isn't for you.

I accept nothing until the last 'Mech hits the dirt. This is a competitive game. You are competing against each other for supremacy on the field of battle. Not even chess players will give up if they are clearly losing, not so long as their king remains out of check and they have a single pawn left on the board. Giving up makes for boring games, but you wouldn't know about that, now would you?

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Go play Tetris.

I do that too, on occasion. Ever tried the multiplayer Tetris games? Very fun.

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It's your problems, that you haven't participated enough, when your team was still alive. If you're so decent, then why haven't you saved your team from wiping? It's not other players' problem. There is no matter what you think - enemy team deserved their victory. You're nobody here to decide, whether it's true or not. As simple, as that.

Sometimes no amount of carrying can save a team. The best players know this because they've been there, and they have screenshots to prove it. The enemy team deserves their victory, yes, but only after they've actually won, and not before.

Edited by Volthorne, 23 March 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

.

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Avoiding enemy engagement is against TOS and that's basicaly what you're doing.

No, its really not what he is doing. And it doesn't violate the TOC.

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If someone is dragging out the match on our team like this, I consider reporting, while shutting down is even worse, and should be reported by everyone. It's different if they have only 1-3 mechs left that's cool maybe you can make it, but if it was a stomp then there's no point and just finish the game, don't prolong.

You make the assumption that if the game is not winnable, he should just quit. That's wrong. People aren't playing just to win the game, people are playing to *play* the game. If I'm down 11-0 and I feel like it, I will draw out the match another 10 mins just to see how far my single small pulse laser can carry me. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have died. No one is holding you hostage, go jump in another mech. Not my problem that you are stuck in some silly cbill per minute grind.

If instead I decide to "report for execution", that's also entirely my decision. It's a courtesy I exetend, not something you have any right to demand.

[dezgra]

You did good man. I do not remember reading a "politically correct" engagement criteria anywhere. If people do not want to watch, they can jump in another mech and still play. It is not your job to play this game for others viewing enjoyment.

[sycocys]

Here's how I look at it - if you are the last one left in your sniper light and did 400+ damage with at least 1 kill, I don't care how you finish out the match.

If you did 100 or less damage and accounted for no kills, then continuing to waste 23 people's time (and your own) is a pretty poor way to play.

There is an easy solution though - stop playing sniper lights and learn how to brawl where you will be far more effective in pushing matches towards a win for your team.

[Chuck Jager]

Just reported a kit fox who was last man standing on the tower in river city. He was at 100% health after the enemy team did a good push and our team fled like babies.

He was on chat saying he was going to die and there was nothing he could do. He was wrong he could have stood his ground earlier.

I am seeing a ton more of this as folks make the easy climb into t3-4, and are then averaged into teams. I do want to call them BAD, they just have not had enough experience, and are then averaged with players who can not really carry them.

I have actually seen more of my teams players running from a much lesser enemy.

[Ghogiel]

Chuck Jager, on 23 March 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Just reported a kit fox who was last man standing on the tower in river city. He was at 100% health after the enemy team did a good push and our team fled like babies.

He was on chat saying he was going to die and there was nothing he could do. He was wrong he could have stood his ground earlier.

I am seeing a ton more of this as folks make the easy climb into t3-4, and are then averaged into teams. I do want to call them BAD, they just have not had enough experience, and are then averaged with players who can not really carry them.

I have actually seen more of my teams players running from a much lesser enemy.

Most tier 1 players cannot carry an old ladies groceries, It's just the way the tier system works.

[Chuck Jager]

Ghogiel, on 23 March 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Most tier 1 players cannot carry an old ladies groceries, It's just the way the tier system works.

Is this constructive or just snarky?

[Rejarial Galatan]

Chuck Jager, on 23 March 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Just reported a kit fox who was last man standing on the tower in river city. He was at 100% health after the enemy team did a good push and our team fled like babies.

He was on chat saying he was going to die and there was nothing he could do. He was wrong he could have stood his ground earlier.

I am seeing a ton more of this as folks make the easy climb into t3-4, and are then averaged into teams. I do want to call them BAD, they just have not had enough experience, and are then averaged with players who can not really carry them.

I have actually seen more of my teams players running from a much lesser enemy.

OH this is just hilarious!!!!
If I am reading this crap right, you died in combat, and that kitfox was the last man standing. My guess is, he as a light, correctly read the situation correctly, chose to not stat feed and stroke YOUR ego all at the same time. Sorry bud, but, there are times, when running in and getting killed to stroke the egos of people like you is just not the right thing to do. He played smarter than you, lasted longer than you, and you have the nerve to be upset? HILARIOUS!

I am willing to bet, YOU would not blindly run in and die and risk that precious tier 1 standing of yours if ever the situation is more than enough firepower remaining on the enemy side with YOU being the last mech standing. In fact, I do not need to bet, I KNOW you would run and hide to protect that standing of yours.

[Ghogiel]

Chuck Jager, on 23 March 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

Is this constructive or just snarky?

It's informative. Therefore classed under constructive.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ive been told I was getting reported more than a few times, especially in games where its like me and 7 guys left then stuff like this happens (I know, its an old pic)



and thats a mech with literally nothing but lrms

but if you squeak out the victory on them, especially if its by good tactics, then screw the reporters. Theyll get themselves in trouble for abusing the report system eventually

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 26 March 2016 - 07:30 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Rejarial Galatan, on 26 March 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

OH this is just hilarious!!!!
If I am reading this crap right, you died in combat, and that kitfox was the last man standing. My guess is, he as a light, correctly read the situation correctly, chose to not stat feed and stroke YOUR ego all at the same time. Sorry bud, but, there are times, when running in and getting killed to stroke the egos of people like you is just not the right thing to do. He played smarter than you, lasted longer than you, and you have the nerve to be upset? HILARIOUS!

I am willing to bet, YOU would not blindly run in and die and risk that precious tier 1 standing of yours if ever the situation is more than enough firepower remaining on the enemy side with YOU being the last mech standing. In fact, I do not need to bet, I KNOW you would run and hide to protect that standing of yours.

SOmebody never got picked for real sports.

The dude was completely out of battle and at 100%. I was one of the first into the battle and also was able to continue fighting and get the second highest damage on my team while being one of the folks to last the longest.

I am also not tier 1 and could care less about my ranking, because win or lose it really does not change that fast if you are only doing solo and are in t2.

I still have zero reason to not report anybody and the real point is I am allowed to say I am reporting somebody based on my perception of the rules. I do it because I know somebody who is that scared will really be affected by it even though PGI are the ones who will decide if it i a valid issue. They are also welcome to report me for griefing.

My job is to use whatever tools available to get the results I want. I am using the tool PGI gave me within my interpretation of their COC. The dude was not participating and was hiding while refusing to enter combat, but yes I was very aware of how my actions would maybe make them feel bad. My actions would never have been triggered if he had any damage or was even shooting 1 laser.

The use of threatening to report has more punch than any name calling or other actions that are very against the COC. IF the individual is doing something that is within the parameters of the of an issue I am just stating a fact. When and If PGI specifically says that "speaking" or "threatening" to report an individual is harassment or I get a "ban" or "warning" from PGI I will continue.

[Rejarial Galatan]

If we are going to start tossing the EULA or CoC or ToS or w/e you wish to call it, please, show me proof, proof here means, if it went to court, a JUDGE would accept it as admissible evidence for a trial, where it states in ANY of the rules, that, as a player, I must or am obligated there in, to blindly race into the enemy as the last person standing, knowing I face over whelming odds to my certain destruction. Please, show me. Until you can PROVE that this is an action I or you or ANY PLAYER must take, reporting a person for refusing to die at YOUR behest is, in fact griefing. I am sorry, but, there is nothing short of hard core, un deniable proof that can compel me as a player on your team who is the last man standing to die at YOUR whim. You may not like it, but, that, in a nut shell is YOUR problem NOT mine.

[Chuck Jager]

Rejarial Galatan, on 26 March 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

If we are going to start tossing the EULA or CoC or ToS or w/e you wish to call it, please, show me proof, proof here means, if it went to court, a JUDGE would accept it as admissible evidence for a trial, where it states in ANY of the rules, that, as a player, I must or am obligated there in, to blindly race into the enemy as the last person standing, knowing I face over whelming odds to my certain destruction. Please, show me. Until you can PROVE that this is an action I or you or ANY PLAYER must take, reporting a person for refusing to die at YOUR behest is, in fact griefing. I am sorry, but, there is nothing short of hard core, un deniable proof that can compel me as a player on your team who is the last man standing to die at YOUR whim. You may not like it, but, that, in a nut shell is YOUR problem NOT mine.

But I will use the tool PGI gave me and from now on anybody but you will also hear that I am going to do it and I welcome them to report me for griefing.

You are correct except that only PGI can determine if it really is griefing, but thanks for letting me know just how mad and hurt it makes people feel. This motivates me to use this very sharp tool easily at my disposal even more.

If you want to really get burned I have an automated screen reader that I put folks name on to give me heads up on certain players that I have made notations about.

[Ghogiel]

~Dont worry about it, really. Unless you are a troll and are using up all your daily reports in one game and just using it to report players, probably who will also be reported by more than one person in the same match, you won't get any disciplinary for using the feature.

[MrMadguy]

Rejarial Galatan, on 26 March 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

If we are going to start tossing the EULA or CoC or ToS or w/e you wish to call it, please, show me proof, proof here means, if it went to court, a JUDGE would accept it as admissible evidence for a trial, where it states in ANY of the rules, that, as a player, I must or am obligated there in, to blindly race into the enemy as the last person standing, knowing I face over whelming odds to my certain destruction. Please, show me. Until you can PROVE that this is an action I or you or ANY PLAYER must take, reporting a person for refusing to die at YOUR behest is, in fact griefing. I am sorry, but, there is nothing short of hard core, un deniable proof that can compel me as a player on your team who is the last man standing to die at YOUR whim. You may not like it, but, that, in a nut shell is YOUR problem NOT mine.

As I said, I hate circular discussion and explaining something to someone personally. Why? Because you may prove and explain everything 100500 times already, but there always will be troll, who will come to thread and say "Haven't read anything - prove it to me" or simply "I don't believe it". So. Can you read? Can you read this thread and COC by yourself? Do you know, that not knowing rules doesn't exempt from liability? I.e. that "Haven't seen or don't understand rules - will do, what I want. You can't report me till you won't prove me otherwise." trick won't work?

So read this and this first.

According to this:
Suicide - is destroying your 'Mech as fast as possible at the beginning of match. If you're not the first 'Mech to die and especially, if you're last one at the end of match - it isn't suicide, otherwise any attack on enemy players would be considered suicide, which is nonsense. Being weaker than enemies - isn't valid "suicide" excuse.

Actually there is ONLY ONE rule there:
Dragging out match and running out clock via avoiding engagement - is forbidden.

And there is ONLY ONE exception from this rule:
Running out clock is allowed, only if via doing it you will accomplish time out condition of certain mode. In case of Skirmish - it's allowed, only if you have more 'Mechs alive.

Conclusion:
YOU ARE ACTUALLY OBLIGATED TO ATTACK ENEMIES.

Edited by MrMadguy, 26 March 2016 - 11:09 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Let me be clear here. Suicide by deliberate self destruction via heat or out of bounds? Yes bad. Hitting O to stay in a fight and going boom? Not suicide by the rules, just a by product of trying anything to win a fight.

Now, running out the clock with full health and ammo? Yes bad. Being the last mech alive with reduced armor, ammo and no team? Nothing wrong with that, especially if its a fight you will lose. Why? Because in all honesty, we humans are vain. Give us something to measure to and it flips that vanity switch and people will protect their ego as violently as if it were a child.

So, still not wrong to refuse to stat feed.

[Kuritaclan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 March 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Ive been told I was getting reported more than a few times, especially in games where its like me and 7 guys left then stuff like this happens (I know, its an old pic)



and thats a mech with literally nothing but lrms

but if you squeak out the victory on them, especially if its by good tactics, then screw the reporters. Theyll get themselves in trouble for abusing the report system eventually

And actually for this reason i would like to have a open database where every pilot is shown with his warning and ban history to check if these trolls really get punished for their abuse reportings. Such a win not only tastes good, but if on top of it i would see that a reporter get 1 week time out additionally it would be the cherry on the cake.