106 replies to this topic

[Tiantara]

LegendaryArticuno, on 22 March 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Can someone help me decide between upgrading to Tempest or the 2R(S)?

Tempest. Best LRM-Laser mech with ECM. If you like Raven 3L and Catapult - you get them both in one bottle... eww... mech!

[jarien13]

Big Tin Man, on 22 March 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

The archer does need help with massive ST's made of firm tofu. And FFS it's a lrm boat. Get radar derp, get ams, get ecm, get cover, shoot down the UAV and move on with life. Maybe this will make them an ok SRM brawler (just like the SRM Zeus).

I just don't understand the IIC crying.

The Jenner is a very viable glass cannon. I know I get nervous when the brawl starts and one appears on our flank. I've been thinking about getting one because I miss my Huggin and I don't have an Oxide.

The Hunchie is somewhat good, but all of the stock builds are super glass cannon and ammo starved. It was called the suicide sled for a reason.

As for the Orion and Highlander... well... you should have known what to expect from their IS counterparts, right?

Many great points by many people, I'm just gonna pick this post to quote (cause it's near the end and short to the point) and add my (2 dollars and) 2 cents to the thread.

People act like LRM's are some kind of easy mode-god-weapon: rubbish. Sure lotsa damage (sometimes), but how many kills did your 1000+ LRM dmg net you?

(Anecdotal evidence follows)

I have had 700-800-900 dmg with LRM's and managed no kills and my team couldn't kill the enemy either and we lost: all that damage for nothing. I've seen (from both sides) stomps where teams with no LRM's have low overall dmg and all 12 enemy mechs dead from aimed, focused fire while the losing team had tons of damage, LRM's and otherwise, but no one focused and the team only managed 1-2 kills (with the winning team stripped to no armor and cherry-red crit components all over, and if the enemy had just target locked and figured out where to aim, completely different outcome...). Besides that, in my spectating observations many of the LRM's I see loosed fly harmlessly into terrain features, that is, when they aren't hopelessly out-ranged (it's apparently really hard for some people to understand weapon ranges, I see it often with all weapons lately, and many don't like to be informed of or corrected in this).

(Anecdotal evidence ended, but be advised opinions still abound)

This is why LRM's are crap: unfocused and easy to avoid if you use the means listed here by Big Tin Man. Didn't run an ECM capable mech (or running an ECM chasis without ECM... tsk, tsk, tsk)? No AMS mounted, because... reasons? Can't afford modules, so no Radar Derp?
Easy: don't cross open areas of the map and expose yourself to those oh-so-evil OP LRM's, stay in, near, and use cover, stay near teammates that DID bring ECM and AMS, and FOR F--K'S SAKE LOOK UP IN THE SKY AND SHOOT DOWN ENEMY UAV'S!!!! (or call it out for teammates if your weaps can't hit it; likewise if your teammates calls "enemy UAV" help find that thing and take it down to the benefit of all of you). Also, look for spotters and enemy TAG and NARC mechs and call teammates when they are NARC'd. This is still a team game, after all, even in solo PUGlandia.

As for the Clan IIC mechs, they are what they are: squishy, underarmored, underammoed, glass cannons, just like in lore for all you lore junkies that want to die an old warrior's death. For the rest of us that want to survive to the end of the match, if you don't like it, change-up that clan-tech and try different loadouts til you find one that works for you or give up and scrap the thing altogether.
Clan Jennies are a high priority target call-out from me in my drops, cause that's how I prioritize a weapon system that I die often from, and would like to not die anymore from, rather than Forum-Warrior cries of "OP nerf pls!" (If you don't like a weapon system killing you, kill it first) So much alpha/dps/dmg potential, squishy as hell (as they should be) but hard as **** to hit if the pilot knows what they are doing and DOESN'T STAND STILL IN A LIGHT 'MECH. Speed and agility is a light mechs defense, not armor and structure. Seriously guys, I see more light pilots bitching about dying... after they moved like a turtle all match (let alone the endless staring matches I watch so many people partake in while spectating after I die). If you want to stop to aim, run something heavier; if you want to stare, run a 100ton frontloaded armor assault (but better yet, don't!).

Mechs This game needs balance between tankiness and damage output. You don't make a mech that can tank all damage nigh invincibly while simultaneously being capable of outputing massive endless dps and spike damage and call that any sort of balance in a PvP game. Assaults are heavy armored and highly gunned... and slow and ponderous. Lights are fast with low armor levels, sometimes decent but usually low dmg or sparse weapons- and "sane" light pilots know to keep moving: no really, never stand still, never stop moving in a light 'mech, ever -even good sniper lights keep moving: shoot and scoot, shoot and scoot. Mediums and heavies make the balance in between the extremes, but no mech excels in all areas (in an ideal balanced gameworld- we all know there are mechs that disprove my point, but I think most of you will understand what I'm getting at here). And guess what? Any and every 'mech is vulnerable to death by massive, concentrated, focused CT alpha strike in this iteration of the game. Sometimes you pop a ridge and eat 12 alpha's in the face 'cause you missed the UAV above your head. No 'mech is or should be impervious to death from massive, focused damage, least of all a 35 tonner, especially one that the pilot can't use all that speed to make up for positioning mistakes that are fatal to anything slower.

TL;DR:
If you don't like dying, figure out what is killing you and find a way to counter it instead of just resorting to whining "OP, pgi pls nerf enemy/nerf mech/nerf weapon/buff me." Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred that just exposes a lazy unwillingness to adjust your piloting tactics.

[PraetorGix]

jarien13, on 22 March 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

TL;DR:
If you don't like dying, figure out what is killing you and find a way to counter it instead of just resorting to whining "OP, pgi pls nerf enemy/nerf mech/nerf weapon/buff me." Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred that just exposes a lazy unwillingness to adjust your piloting tactics.

Great reasoning, except it has one gigantic flaw: If this was true, then why everyone agrees that the Archer needed buffs? I mean, according to you the Archer is completely fine, the problem is with lazy pilots right?
But no, we got Archer buffs, so the same is fair for the IICs and that's what I'm asking for.

[SpazzyNerd]

PraetorGix, on 21 March 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

So, a hot fix to improve the Archer quirks but we are still waiting for IIC quirks... I paid real money for my Jenner too you know? And it needs better toughness just as much those Archers needed the buff.

The moment MWO becomes P2W due to $$ 'mechs being more powerful than others is the moment I stop buying 'mechs (and I've bought many); and if I can't compete w/o spending $$, I'll probably stop playing. P2W is a plague on all F2P games and MWO has my gratitude for not contracting said plague.

* The Jenner IIC can get some really nice kills. I usually run 4x SRM2s+2xSRM4s and it cleans up, even though I'm not the best pilot

[EDITs for grammar]

Edited by SpazzyNerd, 22 March 2016 - 04:38 PM.

[MovinTarget]

PraetorGix, on 22 March 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Great reasoning, except it has one gigantic flaw: If this was true, then why everyone agrees that the Archer needed buffs? I mean, according to you the Archer is completely fine, the problem is with lazy pilots right?
But no, we got Archer buffs, so the same is fair for the IICs and that's what I'm asking for.

This has not happened often, that PGI buffs Mechs a week after release.

Considering they have to eat crow to do this over:
1) breaking their once/month update schedule.
2) conceding the mechs need help out of the gate.

I suspect they have a pretty good reason to do this.

Despite testimony from several players stating contrary to your views that the Jenner IIc needs buffs, add that few have rushed to support your assertion.

Can'the you just consider that perhaps you are not running it in an optimal manner or that your playstyle is not conducive to your strengths?

If your builds differ from the ones I posted on this very thread, how so? A lot of people would be happy to help if you ask..

[Kelito]

Before the "Hotfix" people were actually playing the mode. Now, its back to "who cares about the mode, we will kill all then cap a point for the win". Nice job turning the game back into kill fest only.

[MrJolly]

Kelito, on 22 March 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Before the "Hotfix" people were actually playing the mode. Now, its back to "who cares about the mode, we will kill all then cap a point for the win". Nice job turning the game back into kill fest only.

Well, that is just the perception in peoples' heads which has changed. The "cap to win" effect is just the same as before - the only difference is that the match ends when the non-dead team can no longer lose. You can still kill the other team and lose. The only part missing now (thankfully!) is the boring one-minute wait at the end while the winning team sits around doing nothing.

[JaidenHaze]

I'm somewhat sick with this hotfix. You wouldn't give the IIC any quirks for the same reason. And please stop talking about the Jenner IIC. Nobody wants buffs for that. The same reason why the Oxide shouldn't have gotten the best quirks.

Hunchback, Orion and Highlander are having major problems with their durability. There is a reason, nobody plays the IS Mechs. And they have plenty of quirks.

Please look into that. I find it not acceptable that you buff the Archer but do nothing with the heavier IIC Mechs.

[G SE7EN7]

Pepito Sbazzeguti, on 21 March 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Meh.. the main problem with Conquest now is there is a plenty of time to doing skirmish first and cap later.

A better solution would be speed up the points extraction like about 1.5X the actual rate to incentivate people to split up and protect the zones rather than move in a single group and oblitarate each other.

A better incentive would be to make going for the cap win substantially more profitable then just killing the opposing team.

[ImperialKnight]

Real money mechs are always more powerful out of the gate. That's how you get people to buy them. Just remember the Clan days when they were first released. Clan mechs were beast. But they slowly got nerfed after Cbill release. And that's how it's been. Look at each wave of clan release. The ACH was completely ridiculous, but now that they're released for cbills, they're just ok. Enjoy the unseen mechs as much as you can now. The nerf bats are coming once they start the Cbill release.

[Weyen]

G SE7EN7, on 22 March 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

A better incentive would be to make going for the cap win substantially more profitable then just killing the opposing team.

Yeah,this. The fact that I get more XP and PSR for losing a match by pointlessly skirmishing than I do for winning an entire match by myself by capping points while the rest of my team pointlessly skirmishes, is why I pointlessly skirmish.

[Eviscirator]

The only Origin IIC mechs I feel need some quirks are the Orion and Highlander.

If Jenner IIC gets any buffs, I'm packing equal armor in front/back...

[Black Ivan]

The only Origin IICs that need help are the Hunchback, Orion and Highlander, Jenner is fine as it is.

[KursedVixen]

MovinTarget, on 22 March 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

This has not happened often, that PGI buffs Mechs a week after release.

Considering they have to eat crow to do this over:
1) breaking their once/month update schedule.
2) conceding the mechs need help out of the gate.

I suspect they have a pretty good reason to do this.

Despite testimony from several players stating contrary to your views that the Jenner IIc needs buffs, add that few have rushed to support your assertion.

Can'the you just consider that perhaps you are not running it in an optimal manner or that your playstyle is not conducive to your strengths?

If your builds differ from the ones I posted on this very thread, how so? A lot of people would be happy to help if you ask..

If anything the Jenner overall needs hit box fixes. not buffs

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 March 2016 - 02:12 AM.

[MovinTarget]

KursedVixen, on 23 March 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

If anything the Jenner overall needs hit box fixes. not buffs

As long as it doesn't make it harder to kill... seriously, it can carry a payload most assaults and heavies can't and does so still at a speed acceptable for a light Mech.

If you were to say that the two variants that mix missile and energy hard points could use some help I might go along with it because they can't pack the same punch. The all missiles variant should not be touched though. I think even the all energy one is fine as it can do everything an jr7-for can do and be faster and the cheetah may have ecm but again, Jenner IIcs are faster than all other 35 tonnes save for *one* wolfhound variant.

By allowing up to a 315 engine it is sooooooo flexible I don' see why it needs help...

If you are getting hit too much build around a max engine and never stop pressing "W" because speed is your friend.

Edited by MovinTarget, 23 March 2016 - 03:44 AM.

[mikerso]

PraetorGix, on 22 March 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Great reasoning, except it has one gigantic flaw: If this was true, then why everyone agrees that the Archer needed buffs? I mean, according to you the Archer is completely fine, the problem is with lazy pilots right?
But no, we got Archer buffs, so the same is fair for the IICs and that's what I'm asking for.

Under your reasoning the origins Jenner should be nerfed. There are many more people saying it is op. So there you go. As a light it is a step ahead of most due to payload. Learn to run and gun. Don't expose your back or run from an enemy in a straight line. And don't put your ammo in a low armored location. Any light can be deadly. I will counter that truly good light pilots are not sane. They have to be insane to be erratic.

knightsljx, on 22 March 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

Real money mechs are always more powerful out of the gate. That's how you get people to buy them. Just remember the Clan days when they were first released. Clan mechs were beast. But they slowly got nerfed after Cbill release. And that's how it's been. Look at each wave of clan release. The ACH was completely ridiculous, but now that they're released for cbills, they're just ok. Enjoy the unseen mechs as much as you can now. The nerf bats are coming once they start the Cbill release.

This is not true. The urbies were cash only for a loooooong time, but no one ever truly said they were op. Pretty baby and boars head have never been stomp the opponent mechs. We all know paying is just for early access and exclusives.

Edited by mikerso, 23 March 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

One thing, the game feels more stable compared to the weekend and since the last patch. I was disconnecting, getting into matches while a locust (same player twice) was trying to kill me and other mechs. I was lagging hard in almost every match. then last night it was like wow. A nice and clear with no lagging during the games. I even got to see the launch screen and vote on which maps.

So something else was in this patch.

[mikerso]

Ironclaw Buzzardier, on 22 March 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

haven't run since quirk update here, but the tempest was my favorite to run for the last week

Go for the tempest. You can put similar load outs on both, but tempest has ecm.

[Dan Nashe]

Calvyr, on 21 March 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

My question is whether this hotfix will address the mouse capture issue? I died today because I was running across some open ground to another piece of cover in an SRM Jenner, and when I tried to fire my missiles at an enemy I passed, I lost focus on MWO and it went to Chrome, which was on my other monitor, instead. This left my poor little Jenner standing completely still, looking at an enemy, who proceeded to alpha through my CT before I could get back to the game. I know I've seen other people comment on this problem, and it's happened a few times to me over the last couple of days now.

Confirmed not fixed. And by definition it always happens when you have a mech in your cross hairs.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Tiantara, on 22 March 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Tempest. Best LRM-Laser mech with ECM. If you like Raven 3L and Catapult - you get them both in one bottle... eww... mech!

Got the Tempest, 1st ECM mech... gonna give Archer brawling another shot, might be easier to close in w/ ECM