52 replies to this topic

[Commander A9]

An unaffiliated player said something to my -MS- team tonight that disturbed me.

We dropped with less than a full 12-man, so we picked up a pug or two. When the drop commander attempted to deliver orders about which gates to attack and which direction we would push, this particular player said, and I'm quoting now:

"I'm going to play the game my own way."

Said player proceeded to refute the drop commander's orders, and got himself killed a number of times when he failed to follow drop commander's orders.

People, simply: Community Warfare is not a mode where you can "play the game your own way" and expect to win, or perform at your highest potential. If you want to win, follow the drop commander's orders, no matter who they are or what team they belong to.

If you want to pug it up, do whatever the hell you want, and knock around doing your own thing, Community Warfare is not for you. Especially when the major competitions like Tukayyid roll around.

Edited by Commander A9, 16 April 2016 - 09:39 PM.

[Agent 0range]

I think you are talking about me in the game we lost? Where you complained i wasn't following orders even though you were giving them in TS and i couldn't hear them right?

So here is the other side of the story I followed you in first wave where you all got butchered! I died in the group with you fighting alongside you.

So second wave(I said no here to following the DC orders here he wanted me to push in hard with my sniper and someone got salty) I used my Mech to my abilities as best I know how and said no to your DC because You guys have no doubt pre planned and called what you want for your decks, where as my deck is set up for pugging. I totally understand what you mean by working as a team and when you pushed I supported you with my sniper killing 2 mechs and suppressing the enemy snipers as best as i could.

3rd and 4th wave I fought and died next to you

P.s. just because I am currently unaffiliated doesn't mean I am a noob(Just a HHoD DC on a mech bay tour before phase 3). The orders you DC was giving were not the best to get the best out of my mechs, so i positioned them as best as i could to help the team.

[HeavyEcho]

Ignoring the "I'm high and mighty than thou" tones I'm getting from OP and the impending salt and drama I think the meat of the topic is good enough to follow upon and I will now complete ignore the the fact OP is "-MS-"

The topic of Lack of communication between the Drop Commander of a group and a single or more pugs.

Before the match even starts you have between 10 to 1 minute to discuss the drop deck needed for the strategy the Drop Commander (I know this because I witnessed even groups of Tags and Pugs change there decks to the best they can within at least 45 seconds left on timer).

But as a Pug (More so an pug well versed in the ways of CW) you should be aware that following DC and the rest of the group should be for all the match unless the DC can be persuaded other wise or you mech is that out of place for the current tact. Just because you are in a sniper mech doesn't mean you should hang back, it just mean you should be at the back line of the push just always move in the DCs call even if it looks like it might not be what you think is best since its avoids leading to adding fuel to the blame game and that blame game is what make you noobs only noobs play the blame game.

Also I've noticed this but drop groups in TS hardly communicate with pugs in game always best to offer them to join your group on TS or communicate more on voip on both sides the less typing is always better.

All in All DCs need to communicate and help build a trust and respect with pugs. And Pug need to communicate and have trust and respect with their Drop Commanders. 0/\0 So everyone and one days serve the glory of your lord and saviour Jonathan Tanner together. Praise his name.

Any way I've only been a Drop Commander twice both in defeat and pug more so, so I may not be best for input but input none the less someone else could probably put the topic to word better than I can.

Edited by HeavyEcho, 16 April 2016 - 11:49 PM.

[KinLuu]

Normal queue is the tryhard queue. It features a ranking system (even if it is horrible) and tracks your stats.

CW is the everything-goes queue. It is the place you go to if you simply want to farm braindead, or if you want to level mechs too bad for the normal queue.

[Sunstruck]

I think the issue here is (besides dropping with Kurita), that callers don't always understand what your mechs are capable of. Also tactics from unit to unit are different. I've both won and lost fighting against -MS- and won and lost fighting with -MS- while they were with Marik. Each game was very different, and each drop callers skill and tactics were different.

[The Basilisk]

Guys and Gurls....just drop it.

With April 19th patch there will be no more incompetent non affiliated PuGs disturbing your uber pro less then 12 puppets of the drop commander team drops.

Queue will be split to non Unit ppl and Unit ppl.

If you still are unlucky enough to get some fubar performance from the few........oh so very very few unit affiliated ppl droping solo in get rect queue just report them for incompetence at their units command office. (oh that is if you are lucky enough to get a game at all after the first two weeks when the other units are tired to get stomped over and over again by the 3 or 4 allmighty uber pro [noooo they arent ceating regularely] teams in game)

Have fun

[Bluttrunken]

HeavyEcho, on 16 April 2016 - 11:48 PM, said:

Ignoring the "I'm high and mighty than thou" tones I'm getting from OP

Which you, in turn, completely imagine [...]

Sorry a "I'm playing the game my own way" seems like a perfectly stubborn and pointlessly inflammatory remark. Following the arguments from Agent Orange I can understand his point of view but taken out of his personal context, which might not have been obvious to the Drop Commander, it presents a rather stupid remark in a CW game given to a 10 man team while dropping solo.

In the end: This is neither worth a prolonged debate or a thread.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 17 April 2016 - 12:46 AM.

[latinisator]

Commander A9, on 16 April 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

If you want to pug it up, do whatever the hell you want, and knock around doing your own thing, Community Warfare is not for you. Especially when the major competitions like Tukayyid roll around.

That could have come from BSK. It is up to you to judge whether this is good or bad.

Edit: Anyway, a ten-man-premade of MS should be easily capable of winning and ignoring the admittedly stubborn ones. So no need for crying.

Edited by latinisator, 17 April 2016 - 01:06 AM.

[HeavyEcho]

Bluttrunken, on 17 April 2016 - 12:42 AM, said:

Which you, in turn, completely imagine [...]

Sorry a "I'm playing the game my own way" seems like a perfectly stubborn and pointlessly inflammatory remark. Following the arguments from Agent Orange I can understand his point of view but taken out of his personal context, which might not have been obvious to the Drop Commander, it presents a rather stupid remark in a CW game given to a 10 man team while dropping solo.

In the end: This is neither worth a prolonged debate or a thread.

Meh I probably let my self get baited by the OP pointing out he is -MS- but Pugs and DCs butt heads allot in FW so I though why no turn a whinge thread in to a discussion with out making another thread.

Edited by HeavyEcho, 17 April 2016 - 01:05 AM.

[latinisator]

HeavyEcho, on 17 April 2016 - 01:04 AM, said:

Meh I probably let my self get baited by the OP pointing out he is -MS- but Pugs and DCs butt heads allot in FW so I though why no turn a whinge thread in to a discussion with out making another thread.

He was with Clan Wolf. Maybe that is the main problem.

[MischiefSC]

No idea about the details of this particular match, but in general -

As someone who pugs in CW tons and tons it's the pugs responsibility to fit himself into a unit if he's dropping with them. A unit should put forward the effort to communicate with their pugs, even if it's just 1 or 2. Call in game VOIP, have someone in the unit repeat commands for them, whatever.

CW is team play. If you don't want that, stay in pug queue. Your team is all 12 people no matter who you're in TS with.

If someone doesn't want to do that there's nothing wrong with calling them out. If you see someone pissing against a wall in public that's not them 'just doing their own thing'. CW is 30 minute matches, it's time building queues, it's a bigger investment than QP. While there's no 'real' value to flipping worlds flipping worlds is the point of matches. If someone is there sandbagging they are an a-hole. No law against being an a-hole (be that in a unit or solo) but to act like that and be surprised when you get called out?

I'm actually hugely in favor of the queue split for this vary reason. I get that someone up above was trying to paint this as a 'You'll RUE THE DAY all you communicating and coordinating people ever wanted to play better than random casuals! We'll show you for not being bad and caring about how good you play!' situation it's really not. Sure, populations on both sides will be low. A team of players hanging out in TS though are 10x more likely to stick through a wait to get a match than a bunch of randoms. I suspect the scrub/non-unit queue will void long before the unit one does, especially with a point to taking worlds and fewer fronts to play on.

Unit players will need to be a bit smarter to coordinate and narrow play fronts but we'll get matches and they'll be better for it.

[Iron Buccaneer]

I've dropped with your unit many times. You guys could use some lessons in communicating with your pugs. You tent to use allchat instead of VOIP when you do say something and even then it's usually negative. I have little sympathy for your situation here. Also when you drop with less than 12 you get what you get. Suck it up. The last drop I was in my unit dropped a 12 man but had two pilots who could not stay connected. One of them barely got one mech out of the drop zone. We won with 8 mechs less than the enemy. You fight with what you have. Don't blame one pilot for the failure of your 12 man.

[Triordinant]

Just two more days and you won't have to worry about unaffiliated players ever again.

[Joe Decker]

I have a hard Time understanding solo Players who cannot stick with a Team. Just have an Eye on the Minimap where the Team is moving and you know what they are planning to do.

From my Experience you do not need VOIP or ingame Chat much to see what is happening on the Battlefield and support the Team. Especially in CW it is always the same depending on what the Team goes for. If you go for Invasion or Counter Attack in CW don't bring a Sniper or Missile Boat. Use medium ranged Brawlers instead. If you go for Defend the Omega or Hold Ground you can bring whatever heavy or assault Mechs you like best.

When a Team is pushing it needs all Pilots onboard to spread incoming Damage as good as possible ->Teamarmor.

If you don't know where you Position yourself best in a Team : Be in their Center. As a PUG you should not be first or last Mech.

I agree on one Thing though : It should be communicated before the Drop which Mechs will be brought in each Wave. Also at which Speed the Team will be moving to avoid spreading out too much when rushing. Everything else is just a Question of keeping an Overview by using the Minimap and keeping your Eyes open for what is happening around you.

It is an invalid Argument though to stay back just because your latest Push got wrecked. Throwing Wave after Wave of Mechs at the Enemy is a Part of the CW Concept atm as it looks. Because of that the KDR is not affected by CW at all.

I am not sure if Tuesday's Patch will change much as all solo Players who don't wanna run with PUGs but with Teams will create solo Units. PGI would do good to deny Players creating one Man Units.

Edited by Joe Decker, 17 April 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[Crazy Train]

This thread wouldn't even exist if you won the match, so it sounds like you're scapegoating a pug for the failures of your team. What are the words I'm looking for... git gud!

[latinisator]

MischiefSC, on 17 April 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

As someone who pugs in CW tons and tons it's the pugs responsibility to fit himself into a unit if he's dropping with them. *snipped stuff and thing*

And who are you to judge that the pug drops with you? Maybe it is you dropping with pugs?

All due respect to MS and your actions on the battlefields but I do not get all the stupid WHINING about one pug not OBEYING (sic!) your drop leader. Screw him, get the win - as I said above, you should be able to - and move along.

It is all this elitist whining I hate about BSK, besides the fine person he may be personally, that is shining through here.
So the same is true concerning you: you are the elite of the elite, everybody knows. Dropping with you was fun (a month ago or so with Smoke Jags) - you guys are great. So please have the kindness to simply ignore the stubborn d!ckheads that sometimes are around.
I honestly refuse to acknowledge that one person makes or breaks a match if MS is there with a ten-man-premade. Or have you been up against KCOM?
Note: I am not talking to you, Mischief, but more to Commanders address, for this thread is imho unnecessary.

[latinisator]

Agent 0range, on 16 April 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

P.s. just because I am currently unaffiliated doesn't mean I am a noob

This. So much this.

[latinisator]

Joe Decker, on 17 April 2016 - 04:33 AM, said:

I agree on one Thing though : It should be communicated before the Drop which Mechs will be brought in each Wave. Also at which Speed the Team will be moving to avoid spreading out too much when rushing. Everything else is just a Question of keeping an Overview by using the Minimap and keeping your Eyes open for what is happening around you.

That would require an entirely different pre-drop set up. Elsewise, aff: situation awareness.

[meteorol]

I have seen quite a few large premades complaining to pugs not following their orders.

I guess the issue is two sided here. Even in the current state of CW, where owning planets literally has ZERO benefit (even more with phase 3 coming up and the map getting reset) i still see quite a few large premades suicide rushing gens. Like literally suicide rushing them without even paying attention to enemy mechs.

What can CW currently get you?
Cbills, LP, XP and... literally "nothing" else. Winning planets is nothing but useless in CW. By suicide rushing the gens instead of killing enemy mechs, you may be able to tag a planet, but considering the low CW playercount and high waiting times you will make way less Cbills, LP and XP per hour than by just killing the enemy team quickly.

It's somewhat irritating when you have been waiting for 15-20 minutes to get a drop, and then someone constantly barks at everyone to run past all enemy mechs, and suiciderush gens to end the game in 12 minutes when you know that tagging a planet has ZERO benefit to anyone in this match.

It really makes you wonder if it wasn't better if they just played the academy gauntlet if they love running past mechs and getting shot so much.

[ice trey]

KinLuu, on 17 April 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Normal queue is the tryhard queue. It features a ranking system (even if it is horrible) and tracks your stats.

CW is the everything-goes queue. It is the place you go to if you simply want to farm braindead, or if you want to level mechs too bad for the normal queue.

I can't fully tell if this is sarcasm or not, because this is the complete opposite of my experiences with CW. CW seemed to have always been filled with players who believe first and foremost in using other people's builds and more often than not bringing out that snarky "You're seriously using one of THOSE?" attitudes. I mean, If someone tells me to bring a jump capable light, then yeah, I can do that, but if someone expects me to have the same ERLL Thud that every e-sporter brings to the table, it's just not how I do. As such, I leave all my levelling and experimenting to the public cue. I'm not likely to have the power builds that everyone cuts-and-pastes from smurfy, but I try to at least bring fully elited 'mechs to the table.

...probably why I'm precariously teetering at the lower edge of Tier 3, just waiting for a few bad matches to send me back to 4.