64 replies to this topic

[IdolElite]

I decided to give the ole Victor a go, haven't piloted it in quite a few months. I enjoy the speed and mobility of them that comes from the big ole XL engines I run in them and I like the simple load-outs, but it's still plagued by the same issue it's had for quite awhile now.

All of the damage you take hits the Center Torso.

In fact the next time you see a Victor on the battlefield i challenge you to hit it in a side torso. It's almost impossible. Sometimes damage actually wraps around to it's back CT as well, which is just madness. The result is it's difficult being successful in a Mech that really only lends itself to close in skirmishing when you can't spread damage on it at all. Also it lacks any quirks to help in the structural area, so it goes down very quickly once that 80 ton ct armor is gone.

So, I understand that PGI is working on a resizing and hopefully hit-box adjustment for many/most Mechs? Anyone heard anything about what their plans are for the Victor?

Also, its jump jets are awful too but I'm less concerned there since that's game-wide vs just the Victor.

TLDR; Has PGI said they are doing anything about the Victor's Size/Quirks/Hitboxes?

[Cyborne Elemental]

Needs arm and ct structure, maybe even a hitbox pass.

And bottom line, needs JJ's back to functional levels.

[Revis Volek]

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

I decided to give the ole Victor a go, haven't piloted it in quite a few months. I enjoy the speed and mobility of them that comes from the big ole XL engines I run in them and I like the simple load-outs, but it's still plagued by the same issue it's had for quite awhile now.

All of the damage you take hits the Center Torso.

In fact the next time you see a Victor on the battlefield i challenge you to hit it in a side torso. It's almost impossible. Sometimes damage actually wraps around to it's back CT as well, which is just madness. The result is it's difficult being successful in a Mech that really only lends itself to close in skirmishing when you can't spread damage on it at all. Also it lacks any quirks to help in the structural area, so it goes down very quickly once that 80 ton ct armor is gone.

So, I understand that PGI is working on a resizing and hopefully hit-box adjustment for many/most Mechs? Anyone heard anything about what their plans are for the Victor?

Also, its jump jets are awful too but I'm less concerned there since that's game-wide vs just the Victor.

TLDR; Has PGI said they are doing anything about the Victor's Size/Quirks/Hitboxes?

I kill many a VTR's by ST death, they all Run XL's for the most part and that is how you kill them so fast. You see one every Comp Drop in MRBC and they all die real easy. But i also find that when i run them i die to back shots or ST's 99% of the time.


It needs serious Arm and ST quirks to be viable at this size, if it gets rescaled and looses some height maybe JUST tweaking HitBoxes would be a nice fix.


Im waiting to see what happens with the rescale because i have a feeling the VTR is huge for its weight.

[IdolElite]

Mister D, on 22 March 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Needs arm and ct structure, maybe even a hitbox pass.

And bottom line, needs JJ's back to functional levels.

Didn't really think about the arms, but it's true that is where it's weapons are, and they really aren't hard to take off, stick out pretty well. If it wasn't so easy to murder it's CT people would probably rip the arms off with relative frequency.

I was experimenting with the JJ's, every time i thought i was actually jumping OK I was actually just on a rock...

[NephyrisX]

Victor, like the Shadow Hawk, is an unfortunate victim of circumstance. Back then, Victors was all the rage back then and was absolutely top tier. When the quirkening happened, it was ignored because presumably it can survive in the poat-quirkening world. It didn't.

It really needs at least a CT quirk because of the barn door nature of its model.

[Revis Volek]

Mister D, on 22 March 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Needs arm and ct structure, maybe even a hitbox pass.

And bottom line, needs JJ's back to functional levels.

Having JJ's and allowing it to be the ONLY Assault Poptart in the game i dont think would be such a bad thing at all. Would give it a role to fill that very few other assaults could (maybe the HGN) and it so hard point starved its not like ti setting the world on fire with anything other then ERPPCS and Gauss. 3 LPL's or 3 LL's and Gauss is a OK loadout if the thing could take even a SMALL beating and if could take even a few hit i'd love to run my A/C20 SRM 2,6,4, combo. Its was a nice mech but it needs to brawl to make anything happen and with the high vomit alphas being thrown around like candy its hard to close that distance in such a large, un quirked mech like the VTR.


On that note can we fix the VTR tubes? So i dont have to take a 2,4 and 6 to get the full 12 tubes?

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 March 2016 - 05:45 PM.

[IdolElite]

Revis Volek, on 22 March 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I kill many a VTR's by ST death, they all Run XL's for the most part and that is how you kill them so fast. You see one every Comp Drop in MRBC and they all die real easy. But i also find that when i run them i die to back shots or ST's 99% of the time.


It needs serious Arm and ST quirks to be viable at this size, if it gets rescaled and looses some height maybe JUST tweaking HitBoxes would be a nice fix.


Im waiting to see what happens with the rescale because i have a feeling the VTR is huge for its weight.

I'm not really into the competitive scene and i certainly am not about to take a Victor into CW but just from solo queue experience I could likely count my deaths to side torso on one hand between all 3 chassis. Could just be a symptom of less focused PUG fire results in more stray CT hits resulting in that armor collapsing first.

I wonder if there is a size comparison somewhere for the Victor vs other assaults, it's definitely bigger than the Zeus though.

[Revis Volek]

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I'm not really into the competitive scene and i certainly am not about to take a Victor into CW but just from solo queue experience I could likely count my deaths to side torso on one hand between all 3 chassis. Could just be a symptom of less focused PUG fire results in more stray CT hits resulting in that armor collapsing first.

I wonder if there is a size comparison somewhere for the Victor vs other assaults, it's definitely bigger than the Zeus though.

Its on par with the Atlas, which is 100 tons.

[Tristan Winter]

Without the poptart meta, it's just a perfect storm of mediocre.

• Relatively few hardpoints.
  
• Wide distribution of hardpoints (can't really boat anything)
  
• Number of tubes is still a thing on this mech, so you can't even do 3xSRM6
  
• Extremely wide torso.
  
• Pretty much all firepower contained in the huge arms.
  
• Jump jets are supposed to be one of its strengths (hence lack of hardpoints compared to Battlemaster, for example) and they are currently useless.

Anyway. Getting the Victor 9A1 variant would help. Getting rid of the limited tubes would be good. They probably won't change the shape size of the mech, I'm guessing.

[IdolElite]

So during this size pass have they actually said they'll adjust hit-boxes too?

[Revis Volek]

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

So during this size pass have they actually said they'll adjust hit-boxes too?

I have not heard this, no.

I havent even heard if it is to be resized or not, though Russ stated they can touch ALL MECHS with their method he never said THEY WOULD. (semantics)

But i am pretty sure they started with Lights and moved up, so maybe we will hear word of it soon. They are working on heavies now it would seem.


That was all just WISHFUL thinking on my part.

[Tristan Winter]

Revis Volek, on 22 March 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I kill many a VTR's by ST death, they all Run XL's for the most part and that is how you kill them so fast. You see one every Comp Drop in MRBC and they all die real easy. But i also find that when i run them i die to back shots or ST's 99% of the time.

Yeah, and they all run XLs for a reason:

The lack of hardpoints means you have to equip big weapons to maintain good firepower. It's not like a Battlemaster where you can boat 7 lasers or run 4xSRM6 + 4ML or something like that. In my opinion, the best Victor builds require something like Gauss+2xLPL or 2xUAC5 + 2xLL or something like that. A lot of heavy guns. So you need an XL engine, because an 80 ton mech with a tiny STD engine is going to get smmmmashed by a King Crab or Dire Wolf, or even a Timber Wolf, most of the time.

[Revis Volek]

Tristan Winter, on 22 March 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

Yeah, and they all run XLs for a reason:

The lack of hardpoints means you have to equip big weapons to maintain good firepower. It's not like a Battlemaster where you can boat 7 lasers or run 4xSRM6 + 4ML or something like that. In my opinion, the best Victor builds require something like Gauss+2xLPL or 2xUAC5 + 2xLL or something like that. A lot of heavy guns. So you need an XL engine, because an 80 ton mech with a tiny STD engine is going to get smmmmashed by a King Crab or Dire Wolf, or even a Timber Wolf, most of the time.

I'm well aware of the reason to run VTR's with XL but thanks for clearing that up i guess?

I didnt think i asked , just stating a fact much like you did. They NEED the XL so go for ST over CT as it can be up to half the armor.


The only VTR i run with a STD is a brawl only mech with an AC 20 SRMS and Med pulses. But it still isnt anything to write home about.

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 March 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[Malleus011]

I'd take quirks if they gave them out, but I really feel like the JJ nerf wrecked it. I used to be able to duel bigger assaults because the JJ's let me jump-brawl in close and negate their superior firepower and armor.

[Lyoto Machida]

NephyrisX, on 22 March 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

Victor, like the Shadow Hawk, is an unfortunate victim of circumstance. Back then, Victors was all the rage back then and was absolutely top tier. When the quirkening happened, it was ignored because presumably it can survive in the poat-quirkening world. It didn't.

It really needs at least a CT quirk because of the barn door nature of its model.

Well, you have to be patient. Quirks just came out like a month ago, so give PGI time to gather data and make adjustments accordingly.

[Revis Volek]

Lyoto Machida, on 22 March 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Well, you have to be patient. Quirks just came out like a month ago, so give PGI time to gather data and make adjustments accordingly.

Huh?

Quirks have been here for quite some time Like a year, Quirkining 2.0 has even been here for a while now....They arent adding any new quirks until they rescale is done apparently, Except for the Archer, and the kodiak, and prolly the PHX.

[JediPanther]

I run the vic like a bigger centurion. It is ok but not very good at any thing. At least the atlas can take an alpha or two before going down.

[IdolElite]

I think as has been said the Victor is just a victim of it's own success from the pre-clan time period. I think that time frame is about right, could have been even longer ago though. Back when JJ's worked great with 1 equipped and jump sniping with an AC/10 or 20 and 2 PPC's was the key to Victor...y.

They nerfed it functionally into the ground with various changes and then have since refused to bring it back up to the new standard.

Anyone notice how well the newer mechs tank? PGI has gotten really solid with hit-boxes, but have avoided correcting the flaws with the Victors. The only reason i can think of for this oversight is it's history and being cautious to not accidentally make it overly superior again.

Ran my Black Knight for a few rounds earlier and couldn't help but compare it's 75 tons tanking ability vs the Victor's 80 tons and the BK won hands down by a lot.

Edited by IdolElite, 22 March 2016 - 09:26 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

I'm almost tempted to sell my Victor, but I'm Davion, so.. that'd be a betrayal.

[Ace Selin]

I have sold all my Victors a long time ago.. in a place FAR FAR AWAY