87 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Yeah, but if C-ERLL had shorter burn time you would see it used more often.

Problem is C-LPL has ridiculous range in comparison to C-ERLL, its only 140 meters apart, and that 2 damage you're missing from ERLL makes up for it in dps, even outside of optimal range.

C-LPL needs range dialed back a smidge, and C-ERLL needs a shorter burn time, then things will be unique enough to warrant both.

[QuantumButler]

Mister D, on 24 March 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

Yeah, but if C-ERLL had shorter burn time you would see it used more often.

Problem is C-LPL has ridiculous range in comparison to C-ERLL, its only 140 meters apart, and that 2 damage you're missing from ERLL makes up for it in dps, even outside of optimal range.

C-LPL needs range dialed back a smidge, and C-ERLL needs a shorter burn time, then things will be unique enough to warrant both.

The CERLL actually used to have shorter burn time, then it got nerfed into uselessness and never changed because bads were crying about clans being "op", and of ocurse they never bothered to adjust it once clan lasers lost the whole "double max range" thing.

Edited by QuantumButler, 24 March 2016 - 11:12 PM.

[Adamski]

Mister D, on 24 March 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

Yeah, but if C-ERLL had shorter burn time you would see it used more often.

Problem is C-LPL has ridiculous range in comparison to C-ERLL, its only 140 meters apart, and that 2 damage you're missing from ERLL makes up for it in dps, even outside of optimal range.

C-LPL needs range dialed back a smidge, and C-ERLL needs a shorter burn time, then things will be unique enough to warrant both.

While we are at it, bump IS Energy Range quirks back up to 15% so that IS ERLL have the same range & weight & slot requirements as the C-ERLL with a TC2 / TC3

QuantumButler, on 24 March 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

The CERLL actually used to have shorter burn time, then it got nerfed into uselessness and never changed because bads were crying about clans being "op", and of ocurse they never bothered to adjust it once clan lasers lost the whole "double max range" thing.

The C-ERLL & C-LPL still have Double max range. Its only the smaller lasers that lost that, because the Energy Range quirks of less than 25% still leaves the IS lasers with shorter range. So Clan lasers get the larger optimal, but roughly the same maximum range, in exchange, select IS mechs get a shorter burn time or less heat generated.

[QuantumButler]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

While we are at it, bump IS Energy Range quirks back up to 15% so that IS ERLL have the same range & weight & slot requirements as the C-ERLL with a TC2 / TC3



The C-ERLL & C-LPL still have Double max range. Its only the smaller lasers that lost that, because the Energy Range quirks of less than 25% still leaves the IS lasers with shorter range. So Clan lasers get the larger optimal, but roughly the same maximum range, in exchange, select IS mechs get a shorter burn time or less heat generated.

Is it? I could have sworn that was universal for all clan lasers.

Well, the cerll def needs some help.
Maybe they could simply make the clpl have the same range dropoff past optimal as the smaller clan lasers, keep the erll as is, and reduce the erll burn time?

[Adamski]

If they buff IS range back to 15%

Then definitely, reduce the burn time on the cERLL, and reduce both the range and burn time on the cLPL to keep them distinct.

[Moldur]

Depends on the quirks, but in a vacuum, LPL are better.

[Raso]

How much damage does an LPL actually deal at 450m? Is it more or less than a LLas? If it deals the same or comparable damage to the LLas at the LLas's optimum rage then I'm going to have to refit some of my mechs...

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

If they buff IS range back to 15%

Then definitely, reduce the burn time on the cERLL, and reduce both the range and burn time on the cLPL to keep them distinct.

You have terrible ideas...seriously terrible ideas.

Plz stahp.

[sycocys]

The other reason - LPL + range moduled ML sync up pretty well. Burn time is close, range is close enough and it doesn't trigger ghost heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

cERLL do find some use in competitive play. 840 m range with TC1 is nice for certain maps.

[Felio]

Wolfways, on 24 March 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

LPL's sound better.

Range matters little in MWO as most of the arena sized maps negate long range combat.

What game have you been playing? Matches are basically won or lost at long ranges, then people move in closer after their team is up by 2-3 kills.

[sycocys]

Felio, on 25 March 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

What game have you been playing? Matches are basically won or lost at long ranges, then people move in closer after their team is up by 2-3 kills.

That's just pug matches where everyone is scared to scratch their paint.

[Roadkill]

Mcgral18, on 24 March 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

The sub 100M range difference (365 VS 450) isn't a large amount, but the higher damage+shorter durations mean you put damage where it counts. The same heat value also means it doesn't have much opportunity cost, aside from the 2 tons (and potentially 2 heatsinks) per laser.

It's hard to twist damage applied that fast.

I disagree about the range difference - I constantly wish that I had that extra 85 meters of range. But the range difference is completely mitigated by the reduced burn time on the LPL, with the extra damage it does just being an extra (very nice) bonus.

So... same conclusion, just slightly different reasons. The range is a big deal to me, it's just that the other bonuses of the LPL still outweigh the range difference.

[Zoid]

Mcgral18, on 24 March 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

It's hard to twist damage applied that fast.

Almost impossible to twist damage that fast. Human reaction time is approximately 0.25 seconds, so combine that with lag, twist speed and a 0.6 second duration (most 'mechs running them have 10% duration quirk) and unless you're actively twisting when they're fired, you're not dodging anything.

Also worth noting that since the damage drops off linearly outside of optimum range, you have to get outside of about 500m before the LL does significantly more damage and the damage per burn time is almost always in favor of the LPL until you get completely out of range.

Edited by Zoid, 25 March 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[FupDup]

QuantumButler, on 24 March 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

The CERLL actually used to have shorter burn time, then it got nerfed into uselessness and never changed because bads were crying about clans being "op", and of ocurse they never bothered to adjust it once clan lasers lost the whole "double max range" thing.

It was never shorter than 1.5 seconds. It was first nerfed to get 2.0s burn time, then slightly unnerfed down to 1.65s, and then months later restored back down to 1.5.

Also, Clan LPL and ERLL still have the 2x max range thing.

Edited by FupDup, 25 March 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[Roadkill]

Raso, on 25 March 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

How much damage does an LPL actually deal at 450m? Is it more or less than a LLas? If it deals the same or comparable damage to the LLas at the LLas's optimum rage then I'm going to have to refit some of my mechs...

It's linear, so easy enough to figure out.

85 / 365 = 23.28% (you're 23% into the "decline" beyond optimal range)
23% of 11 = 2.56 (at that point you're doing 2.5 less damage)
11 - 2.56 = 8.44

So it's doing .56 less damage than the LL at 450 meters.

The key, though, is the burn time. The LPL is doing that damage significantly more quickly than the LL which makes all the difference in the world.

[Roadkill]

FupDup, on 25 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

It was never shorter than 1.5 seconds.

Are you sure? My memory says it was 1.1 or 1.2 at the start, then nerfed to 2.0, then buffed de-nerfed to 1.65 and finally 1.5. I'm pretty sure it's still longer now that it was when the Clans were first introduced.

[FupDup]

Roadkill, on 25 March 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

Are you sure? My memory says it was 1.1 or 1.2 at the start, then nerfed to 2.0, then buffed de-nerfed to 1.65 and finally 1.5. I'm pretty sure it's still longer now that it was when the Clans were first introduced.

No, it was never at 1.1 or 1.2. It was 1.5 at launch.

My trolling in 5 ERLL Warhawks and 2 ERLL + 2 ERML Adders were a testament to it...

Fun fact: The patch that meganerfed the CERLL to 2.0 seconds burn time is the patch that gave birth to the Wubhawk. That's the first thing I tried after the nerf, and it stuck...

Edited by FupDup, 25 March 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Roadkill]

FupDup, on 25 March 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

No, it was never at 1.1 or 1.2. It was 1.5 at launch.

What do you know, you're right. Not the first time my memory has lied to me.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 March 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

cERLL do find some use in competitive play. 840 m range with TC1 is nice for certain maps.

Not really quite the prevalence of iERLLs though, mainly because no Clan mech outside the HBK-IIC and Hellbringer has good enough mounts compared to some of the IS mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 March 2016 - 09:43 AM.