10 replies to this topic

[DukeRustfield]

From what I can tell, you get the most of your xp from damage. Some from kills. And assists. Speaking strictly damage.

However, the pinpoint nature of IS weapons are penalized by this. For instance, my boomcrab with twin AC20s tends to get a decent number of kills, but he scores very low damage because...stuff is dead. My Ultra-AC direwolf scores an incredible amount of damage, often less kills, but gets a gargantuan amount of XP and Cbills. Because he's spraying damage all over the place because of the nature of clan ACs and multi-shots.

Not sure how, but I'd like to see this disparity evened out. My boomcrab and my chainsaw direwolf I consider very similar to each other, but there is often a difference of 100% (double) in terms of their scores.

I'll see something similar in LRM+Artemis vs. Clan LRM. If you can do a bazillion damage with clan LRMs, you might score zero kills, but you'll get massive rewards. The IS Artemis LRMs might get more kills but because of their size, you're packing less and doing less overall damage. But it's far more effective.

You could say you're "taking it for the team" and more likely to get a win because you're getting kills instead of just spreading damage, but you should be rewarded for that.

[LORD TSARKON]

No good deed goes unpunish..... Seem like PGI's mantra... the more you do Teamwork in this game the more you are penalized..

[Tarogato]

If your little theory were correct, then it would be easy to show with data that IS mechs deal less damage on average. But can you show it?

My data is somewhat contradictory.

My personal stats, organised by average damage from highest to lowest (I can fetch anonymous stats I've collected from some other people as well if you're interested) :
https://docs.google....#gid=1280367264

For me, my best IS mechs are at the top for average damage, and Clans are really quite evenly distributed.

Also, for giggles here's a graph that correlates my damage with XP - it's a predictable trend, but it's really quite a wide smattering - large variance, which suggests that while damage is the major component of earning XP (and we know it is), there is a lot more to it other than just dealing lots of damage. (also, hero mechs, champion mechs, premium, first win of the day, and events can affect average earnings slightly, but I very rarely take advantage of any of these since I'm f2p)

Edited by Tarogato, 26 March 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[Mcgral18]

If you remove the ST, you also remove the arm (and acquire the full IS+A value from it), meaning the Clam mech that hits ST+Arm, removing the arm before ST, deals the damage damage as the IS mech that pinpoints the ST, removing the arm+ST simultaneously.

Theoretically, at least.


As for CT popping, than you'd lose slight amounts of damage due to ST splash, but not to the tune of 100 damage from a Whale arm.

[DukeRustfield]

Tarogato, on 26 March 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

If your little theory were correct, then it would be easy to show with data that IS mechs deal less damage on average.

Stats lag, but here is one that looks at my Timberwolf, which was almost exclusively Streak SRM6 (can't get much more spread damage than that) vs. my BoomCrab.

TimberWolf
.70 winrate
.60 K:D rate
274 avg dmg
704 xp per battle

BoomCrab
1.16 winrate
1.22 K:D rate
269 avg dmg
778 xp per battle

So the crab, despite doing vastly better, wasn't rewarded all that much more. (I don't want to use stats for direwolf as I've only been using this build for a week and it gets an xp bonus.) I'll add my DDC, which uses lasers and SRMs, so the damage is much more spread out.

DDC
1.17 winrate
1.21 K:D rate
321 avg dmg
815 xp per battle

So the DDC, which is less pinpoint, has a higher xp rate even though its stats are almost identical to Boom. So the fact the boomcrab finishes targets faster is to its detriment in terms of xp.

I'll add my direwolf, but I didn't get a good build, and didn't get him mastered until a week or so ago, so bear that in mind.

Direwolf
1.1 winrate
.86 K:D rate
337 avg dmg
799 avg xp

So the Direwolf gets 2nd highest xp even though he sucks at killing stuff compared to boom or DDC. The Timberwolf, which was just splattering dmg everywhere with those streaks is a perfect example of this. He was losing all the time and dying all the time, but almost got as good xp as the boomcrab simple because he was doing dmg.

So, yeah, I think it shows pretty well that doing dmg, regardless of kills, earns you more xp.

[Chuck Jager]

As far as Clan vs IS, I see the basis of the argument, but there are way too many variables. I do agree with spread versus pin point. I love gauss and erppc on some mechs, but I will be honest I take lpl just for the extra epeen of the damage, but always say it is more heat efficient. You make more Cbills and you would probably have more of a chance getting picked for a comp team if you damage is constantly higher amongst a more casual group of players (as long as it is not lrms).

The mech I am speaking of is my Warhawk with 2erppc and 1 gauss (and appropriate omnipods). I will add it will pop a light or damaged parts like a pump action shotgun in a pumpkin patch

[Tarogato]

DukeRustfield, on 26 March 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Stats lag, but here is one that looks at my Timberwolf, which was almost exclusively Streak SRM6 (can't get much more spread damage than that) vs. my BoomCrab.

TimberWolf
.70 winrate
.60 K:D rate
274 avg dmg
704 xp per battle

BoomCrab
1.16 winrate
1.22 K:D rate
269 avg dmg
778 xp per battle

So the crab, despite doing vastly better, wasn't rewarded all that much more. (I don't want to use stats for direwolf as I've only been using this build for a week and it gets an xp bonus.) I'll add my DDC, which uses lasers and SRMs, so the damage is much more spread out.

DDC
1.17 winrate
1.21 K:D rate
321 avg dmg
815 xp per battle

So the DDC, which is less pinpoint, has a higher xp rate even though its stats are almost identical to Boom. So the fact the boomcrab finishes targets faster is to its detriment in terms of xp.

I'll add my direwolf, but I didn't get a good build, and didn't get him mastered until a week or so ago, so bear that in mind.

Direwolf
1.1 winrate
.86 K:D rate
337 avg dmg
799 avg xp

So the Direwolf gets 2nd highest xp even though he sucks at killing stuff compared to boom or DDC. The Timberwolf, which was just splattering dmg everywhere with those streaks is a perfect example of this. He was losing all the time and dying all the time, but almost got as good xp as the boomcrab simple because he was doing dmg.

So, yeah, I think it shows pretty well that doing dmg, regardless of kills, earns you more xp.

If you like, you can go back to that link I posted and add your stats. I've opened up the sheet so you can edit it to add them in, there's a red tab at the bottom with your name on it. I'm curious to see how many of your mechs follow your examples, since the mechs you're using as examples aren't mechs that I own.

[DukeRustfield]

I gave you the stats on the most extreme mechs with any kind of statistically significant data. Not sure why you think it matters in a scatter diagram. It shows exactly what I stated. Sticking them on a graph doesn't matter. Look at the weighting of damage and kills vs. XP. It's pretty clear.

The Crab had 103% more kills than the Timberwolf, the Crab had about 2% less damage, but the crab ended with only about 11% more xp. Those are the numbers. Maybe tonnage or relative skills of players will matter.

The Crab had 42% more kills than the Direwolf, the Dire had 25% more damage, and the Dire had 3% more xp. Those are the same tonnage, so that is removed as a factor.

Clearly damage is weighted far greater than kills. Further, also, it should go without saying that the ability to pinpoint damage will cause kills faster. It was specifically a selling point by PGI when trying to rebuff IS after clan were released. You're spreading damage over less areas/components.

Put another way, if you targeted a mech and: you cut off both arms, both side torsos, one leg, then got them down to 1 health in CT, without killing them, you would receive VASTLY more xp than if you headshot the person with no spillover damage to other components. I believe it would be multiples difference in xp.

The closest examples I have are when I used LRMs without artemis. I would wrack up incredible amounts of damage, over 1200 in some cases. But get no, or low, kills. When I started using artemis on the exact same platform, I was getting more kills but a lot less damage and rewards.

One factor that could potentially even things out is that IS mechs often have quirks of higher armor. An Atlas or even a Crab has more armor than a Direwolf. But in practice, it doesn't even out. An IS mech isn't alive that much longer to spread his/her damage out as much as a Clanner. Because clans also have benefits like speed and XL engines not dying with one side torso.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

There are way too many other variables to take into consideration on top of the provided stats.
Analysis without them is not worth much.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I don't care about xp but cbills are my one true love. So for money making potential my best earners are my oxide and my jenner IIC (o)

Both average 400+ damage and multiple kills per match and I earn 200k+ per match easily with them without premium time. With premium 300k is simple and 400k is doable if I get a chance to dump all my ammo.

[Tarogato]

DukeRustfield, on 26 March 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

I gave you the stats on the most extreme mechs with any kind of statistically significant data. Not sure why you think it matters in a scatter diagram. It shows exactly what I stated. Sticking them on a graph doesn't matter. Look at the weighting of damage and kills vs. XP. It's pretty clear.

Because when you only list out a couple of examples, it's not statistically significant. Let me show you an example of what I'm talking about:


BJ-3 (3x LPL, short burn duration, rather surgical damage)
- 1598 XP per match
- 1.40 kill rate
- 474 avg dmg

IFR-A (5x cERML, long duration, very spread damage)
- 1022 XP per match
- 1.13 kill rate
- 385 avg dmg

VND-1AA (3x LPL, short burn duration, rather surgical damage)
- 1036 XP per match
- 0.73 kill rate
- 279 avg dmg

--------------------------------------------
Of the three above mechs, the Clan mech earns the least XP.

---

HBR-Prime (1x cLPL + 5x cERML ----- long duration, much spread damage)
- 1112 XP per match
- 1.01 kill rate
- 420 avg dmg

TDR-5SS (7x MPL --- short duration, very surgical damage)
- 1540 XP per match
- 1.32 kill rate
- 446 avg dmg

--------------------
In the above two mechs, the IS mech earns more XP.

---

GHR-5P (3x LPL + 3x ML --- short duration, precision damage)
- 1496 XP per match
- 1.69 kill rate
- 494 avg dmg

TBR-D (2x cLPL + 3x cERML --- long duration, very spread damage)
- 1151 XP per match
- 1.08 kill rate
- 413 avg dmg

----------------
Of the above two mechs, the IS mech earns more XP

---

TBR-Prime (2x cGauss + 3x cERML --- very pinpoint, front-loaded damage)
- 1251 XP per match
- 1.06 kill rate
- 427 avg dmg

TBR-D (2x cLPL + 3x cERML --- long duration, very spread damage)
- 1151 XP per match
- 1.08 kill rate
- 413 avg dmg

----------------------------
Of the two above mechs, the one with the more effective pinpoint killing damage... earned more XP.

---

Conclusion:
IS mechs and builds with more pinpoint and frontloaded damage that are capable of killing enemies more efficiently will earn more XP.




... now do you see the problem? My conclusion is the opposite of yours, using the same method.