67 replies to this topic

[xTrident]

L3mming2, on 28 March 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

ams THIS
http://plays.tv/vide...t-bs-?from=user

What you fail to realize is matches like that is super fun for all!

And yes, I'd like to see even the those of you talking about having a few triple AMS mechs go up against that. I don't know what I'd expect honestly.

[Podex]

Yes, please. Some matches have become LRM hell with brawler support mechs rocking a NARC tube and Archers placing themselves on the flanks.

The sickening thing is that it's not actually coordinated. People are just capitalizing on the masses trying to level their Archers and it's working out pretty well.

[xTrident]

I personally have not ever been in a match with the amount of LRM's in that video posted. There have been some LRM heavy matches, but nothing like that. That was terrible.

Edited by xTrident, 28 March 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[Yosharian]

A wild laser-vomit team appears!

Your AMS build is super-ineffective!

[Reality Dysfunction]

Speaking from a newer users POV, being in a fat assault when the rest of the team buggers off and leaves you and the other slower assaults open to be torn apart by lurms, again and again, game after game, makes the game very boring.

As far as I know PGI needs people like me to play the game, I was thinking about spending real money on it... but I wont at the moment, it bores me too much.

[xTrident]

Cheap Plastic Mech, on 28 March 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Speaking from a newer users POV, being in a fat assault when the rest of the team buggers off and leaves you and the other slower assaults open to be torn apart by lurms, again and again, game after game, makes the game very boring.

As far as I know PGI needs people like me to play the game, I was thinking about spending real money on it... but I wont at the moment, it bores me too much.

I've actually seen a lot more of the "assaults get left behind and torn apart by lights" than the lurms.

[Reality Dysfunction]

xTrident, on 28 March 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

I've actually seen a lot more of the "assaults get left behind and torn apart by lights" than the lurms.

That too, but today was the lurms... most probably with a light spotter...

[Moomtazz]

Yosharian, on 28 March 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

A wild laser-vomit team appears!

Your AMS build is super-ineffective!

I gave it a shot yesterday, but I didn't want to sell out totally for AMS. Instead I replaced 2ML and 1 DHS on my BK-6 with 2 AMS and 2 tons ammo (4000 rds). Alpha dropped from 58 to 48 and it was still an effective killer. I dropped Radar Derp as well.

However, this is one variant with dual-AMS capabilities. Plus it's one of the best mechs out right now, which allows me to drop 10pts of damage to add the AMS. Most mechs out there don't have the option for dual-AMS and/or don't have the tonnage/hardpoints to sacrifice 3 tons and still be effective. I'll try some single AMS stuff as time permits.

If they ever add AMS scoring for C-bill and XP generation I think AMS use would increase.

[Koda Shy]

Events always bring out the Lrm boats......im guilty of that myself......easiest way to rack up points needed.....and since we have had 2 straight weeks of events....its been more lrm activity and with the recent new mechs out being primarily missile slot mechs as well....

I think Ams is fine...i carry it on every mech i can.... if anyone has an ams slot and not using it........you are the bad guy...plain and simple..........ive even seen my missiles not reach a target because of all the ams fire knocking them down....its really works if people used them.......... now not saying it is perfect...........but

I do think a shut down should counter a narc........and i do think that lrm should not do dmg until 300 meters......srm and streaks are 300 meters max...........so lrm should not activate til 300........IMO .... that would change things dramatically ................ cause brawling a clan lrm at 100 meters the other guy is toast....and that aint right...even IS boats are 150 or 200 something....

thats just what i think ... Lrm range 300-1000 .... thats the fix. have a nice day.

ps....and higher rewards and exp for ams protection that provide match points.

Edited by Koda Shy, 28 March 2016 - 06:54 AM.

[Prokust]

No ams for mechs faster than 70 kph, but radar derp. Thats all i need to deal with "lurmageddon". Also on most lights (or everything faster than around 110 kph) i even dont use radar derp, only if i got unused module slots. If you got issues with getting in cover by time with that speed you should rethink your positioning

[0bsidion]

Cheap Plastic Mech, on 28 March 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Speaking from a newer users POV, being in a fat assault when the rest of the team buggers off and leaves you and the other slower assaults open to be torn apart by lurms, again and again, game after game, makes the game very boring.

As far as I know PGI needs people like me to play the game, I was thinking about spending real money on it... but I wont at the moment, it bores me too much.

It might seem counter-intuitive but assaults are probably not the best mechs to learn the game in. I know it may seem that way because they've got the most armor and often the most guns, but it might actually be better to start with mediums or heavies, because they're generally more balanced.

Once you get a better feel for positioning and timing, two very important factors to learn if you want to survive, then move on to assaults.

[Reality Dysfunction]

0bsidion, on 28 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

It might seem counter-intuitive but assaults are probably not the best mechs to learn the game in. I know it may seem that way because they've got the most armor and often the most guns, but it might actually be better to start with mediums or heavies, because they're generally more balanced.

Once you get a better feel for positioning and timing, two very important factors to learn if you want to survive, then move on to assaults.

I like fat assaults, always have, from the annihalator in MW3 onwards.. although the SCat with 12-14 sml las was nice... ahh memories... A Puma with 2xLBX20 running around Solaris light matches...

Back to MWO: Had some great matches where people stayed with the assaults and heavies rather than spreading out like confetti... although thats not great for Domination matches where my fat wolf takes 3 minutes to reach the circle...

It comes down to teamwork... imo

Edited by Cheap Plastic Mech, 28 March 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[0bsidion]

WarPickle, on 28 March 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

I'm already a member of this unit

The other day I managed to sneak behind an enemy catapult trying to lurm the world in my Kitfox with 3 ams... I just sat behind him as he launched lurm after lurm.. the whole time Bzzzt bzzzt bzzzt.... ams firing away.. I was no more than 10 meters behind.. he had no clue.. I just sat at my computer and giggled like a little school girl... I'm pretty sure he had a crappy score

TheB33f already beat you to this, he's got a YouTube video of him running around with a x3 AMS KitFox with ECM, sneaking up behind enemies and completely negating their LRMs, it's pretty funny.

[Yankee77]

Koda Shy, on 28 March 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

I do think a shut down should counter a narc........and i do think that lrm should not do dmg until 300 meters......srm and streaks are 300 meters max...........so lrm should not activate til 300........IMO .... that would change things dramatically ................ cause brawling a clan lrm at 100 meters the other guy is toast....and that aint right...even IS boats are 150 or 200 something....

thats just what i think ... Lrm range 300-1000 .... thats the fix. have a nice day.

ps....and higher rewards and exp for ams protection that provide match points.

At this point, anyone who thinks LRMs need a nerf are generally doing it wrong. There's a reason you don't see LRMs much in the higher tiers: they've basically the worst weapons at this time. That's because people at higher tiers generally know how to use cover and make themselves difficult LRM targets.

Indeed, objectively speaking, LRMs _actually_ need a buff in order to be useful again at the higher tiers. The problem is buffing them in a way that does not make them deadlier indirect fire weapons. Or, if you prefer, in ways that don't make them even deadlier against players who don't know how to defend against LRMs. That's the single greatest obstacle to making LRMs decent Tier 1 weapons: the most technically simple buffs (higher speed, tighter spread, and so on) leads to cries of "lurmaggedon" and the likes.

Of course, its understandable that the devs wouldn't pull the trigger on such buffs: you don't want new players turned away from the game because of LRMs being too effective against new players.

It's as if there was a super-sniper weapon that allowed people to head-shot anyone who skylined themselves and stayed still for a few seconds: the experienced players would know not to peek-a-boo for too long and that weapon would become useless at the top tiers, but it would absolutely devastate newbies and drive many them away from the game.

My thinking is that LRMs should have their DIRECT use buffed in some way, such as making them faster with a flatter trajectory when the firing mech has line-of-sight, or perhaps making them much faster and firing in a straight line when you do not have a lock (giving them a viable dumb-fire option, basically). At the same time, however, their INDIRECT use should remain unchanged, or perhaps even nerfed a bit (if they become effective enough at the higher tiers as direct-fire weapons, at least).

Either way, LRMs certainly don't need a nerf. There's plenty of counters already, it's just a question of learning to use them... once you know how to do so, LRMs should not be an issue anymore (not unless the LRM mech has direct line of sight on you and is tagging you and has Artemis... but in that case he could have just used lasers and been more effective).

[Johny Rocket]

OP so lets discuss the ams, it has downsides, its tonnage you could have used for an offensive weapon. Triple ams and 10t ammo, how much actual punch are you bringing to the game? Yeah the occasional match where you may save a few teammates from lrms doesn't add up to the times you run into a team with few or none, at that moment you are worthless.

Now from the point of an lrm5 spammer. I always care direct fire weapons with the longest range I can afford in the build. I pop shots over cover so your ams gives you away. If you are running dual ams or more you are going to be focused for execution 1st. Only guy that is going to get more attention than you is an enemy narcer.
I'll sniff you out with a 5 here and there, flank you and focus the torso with the ams with direct fire and will use coms to invite others to join me.
Spaming lrm5s is best done in fast mechs, if I can't just go kill you and go on with the party I am going to flank around and take shots on mechs not in your bubble. If Im running with several lurmers (happens often) we will burn the tonnage on you because it takes 2+ ams to completely stop 5x5 lrms on chain, meaning its expensive but we will wreck you making it worth the investment.

This vid of the rain on polar, what would have happened if those teams had met on another map?

There is balance in the game.

[Podex]

Yankee77, on 28 March 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

At this point, anyone who thinks LRMs need a nerf are generally doing it wrong. There's a reason you don't see LRMs much in the higher tiers: they've basically the worst weapons at this time. That's because people at higher tiers generally know how to use cover and make themselves difficult LRM targets.

Indeed, objectively speaking, LRMs _actually_ need a buff in order to be useful again at the higher tiers. The problem is buffing them in a way that does not make them deadlier indirect fire weapons. Or, if you prefer, in ways that don't make them even deadlier against players who don't know how to defend against LRMs. That's the single greatest obstacle to making LRMs decent Tier 1 weapons: the most technically simple buffs (higher speed, tighter spread, and so on) leads to cries of "lurmaggedon" and the likes.

Of course, its understandable that the devs wouldn't pull the trigger on such buffs: you don't want new players turned away from the game because of LRMs being too effective against new players.

It's as if there was a super-sniper weapon that allowed people to head-shot anyone who skylined themselves and stayed still for a few seconds: the experienced players would know not to peek-a-boo for too long and that weapon would become useless at the top tiers, but it would absolutely devastate newbies and drive many them away from the game.

My thinking is that LRMs should have their DIRECT use buffed in some way, such as making them faster with a flatter trajectory when the firing mech has line-of-sight, or perhaps making them much faster and firing in a straight line when you do not have a lock (giving them a viable dumb-fire option, basically). At the same time, however, their INDIRECT use should remain unchanged, or perhaps even nerfed a bit (if they become effective enough at the higher tiers as direct-fire weapons, at least).

Either way, LRMs certainly don't need a nerf. There's plenty of counters already, it's just a question of learning to use them... once you know how to do so, LRMs should not be an issue anymore (not unless the LRM mech has direct line of sight on you and is tagging you and has Artemis... but in that case he could have just used lasers and been more effective).

Just flatten the trajectory, maybe even decrease the range. That should fix a whole lot of issues in all tiers. LRMs are effective if used correctly. The problem in the higher tiers is that they are resource hogs and are a huge gamble. The space and weight can better be used elsewhere. Flatten the trajectory to make them more direct fire, decrease the range to increase hit probability and you'll have a winner on all tiers.

[nehebkau]

God I love playing something other that MWO when they have events on....

[Johny Rocket]

Podex, on 28 March 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Just flatten the trajectory, maybe even decrease the range. That should fix a whole lot of issues in all tiers. LRMs are effective if used correctly. The problem in the higher tiers is that they are resource hogs and are a huge gamble. The space and weight can better be used elsewhere. Flatten the trajectory to make them more direct fire, decrease the range to increase hit probability and you'll have a winner on all tiers.

That just proves most high tier players have 0 clue how to employ Lrms properly.
Also I run lrms in high tier play and rarely have a problem, but then again, I don't listen to people who say its bad and have learned how to do it the right way that makes me effective.
A team hiding behind a rock or running for their lives is not fighting effectively. 1 or 2 mediums in the right hands can shut down the effectiveness of your entire team because you are now camping for your life while their team is free to maneuver.

No changes need to be made to make them effective at high tier the problem is 100% on the pilot. Want to use lrms in T1-2, get gud and leave the assault mech in the mechbay.

All of those goodies you have to run to counter lrms mean you sacrifice something offensive for something defensive. What mod would you carry if you didn't have to have a radar dep how much bigger would your dps be if not for that ams or ecm?

Edited by Tractor Joe, 28 March 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Podex]

Tractor Joe, on 28 March 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

That just proves most high tier players have 0 clue how to employ Lrms properly.
Also I run lrms in high tier play and rarely have a problem, but then again, I don't listen to people who say its bad and have learned how to do it the right way that makes me effective.
A team hiding behind a rock or running for their lives is not fighting effectively. 1 or 2 mediums in the right hands can shut down the effectiveness of your entire team because you are now camping for your life while their team is free to maneuver.

No changes need to be made to make them effective at high tier the problem is 100% on the pilot. Want to use lrms in T1-2, get gud and leave the assault mech in the mechbay.

All of those goodies you have to run to counter lrms mean you sacrifice something offensive for something defensive. What mod would you carry if you didn't have to have a radar dep how much bigger would your dps be if not for that ams or ecm?

I absolutely agree. When running with a semi-coordinated team, a close support LRM boat can create total chaos. They may not get the kills or the damage, but they can make it exceptionally difficult for the target brawlers to fight. Distract and soften. I have used this tactic VERY effectively and have had teams win against insurmountable odds. Unfortunately, there are a lot of variables at play (#1 is being your teammates), so it's all a gamble.

Everyone wants to snipe and brawl. I'd welcome bigger incentives for AMS loading, ECM wielding, and scouting.

[Satan n stuff]

I Zeratul I, on 27 March 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

OP

I had the "pleasure" of seeing that mech on the battlefield while I was grinding my Orion IIC lurmboat, I was impressed with the sheer number of LRMs you could take down, it took three of us just to get any hits in.
We still trashed your mech pretty thoroughly, but your team managed to win largely thanks to that the first match. The second match my team had fewer lurms and more direct fire so I could just ignore you in favor of something more dangerous and more vulnerable, we won that one pretty easily.