77 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 March 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

ok with the all the IS to Clan Balance Talks about,
and it seems like Every Discussion leads into an Epeen Contest,

Let me Bring Something up that Many feel is or isnt important,
the Tonnage and Crit differences between IS and Clan Weapons,
Weapon Balance Aside, it seems like Tonnage/Crit are their own Discussion,


=Thoughts on Balance=
This Topic is to Discuss the Balance between Faction, Tonnage and Crits,
In doing, This Topic Assumes that all Weapons are balanced Stats wise,
(they may not be but thats for another Topic not this one)
-
But why Discuss IS to Clan, Tonnage and Crits?
Because many Good Topics on Clan Balancing have been shot down on it,
Valid ideas Cast aside, because Clan Weapons are Abit smaller and Weigh less,
This Topic Seeks to Discuss this and Find a Solution to Tonnage & Crit Balance,


=Current Weapons=
=Energy=
Small Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits,
Medium Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits,
-
IS Large Lasers take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan ERLL,
IS Large Pulse take up 1 more Ton vs Clan LPL,

=Ballistic=
IS AC2 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton But 1 Less Crit vs Clan UAC2 +Ammo,
IS AC5 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan UAC5 +Ammo,
IS AC10 +Ammo take up 2 more Tons and 2 more Crit vs Clan AC10 +Ammo,
IS AC20 +Ammo take up 2 more Tons and 2 more Crit vs Clan UAC20 +Ammo,
IS Gauss +Ammo take up 3 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan Gauss +Ammo,

=Missile=
IS LRM5 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM5 +Ammo,
IS LRM10 +Ammo take up 2.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM10 +Ammo,
IS LRM15 +Ammo take up 3.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM15 +Ammo,
IS LRM20 +Ammo take up 5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM20 +Ammo,
-
IS SRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SRM2 +Ammo,
IS SRM4 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton vs Clan SRM4 +Ammo,
IS SRM6 +Ammo take up 1.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan SRM6 +Ammo,
-
IS SSRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SSRM2 +Ammo,



=0=My Solution=0=
Lasers are mostly Fine, but for Missiles and Ballistics,
give all IS Ammo Based Weapons 1Free Ton of Ammo
this Balances out the Problem almost Completely,

=NEW Weapons=
=Energy=(No Change)=
Small Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan,
Medium Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan,
-
IS Large Lasers take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan ERLL,
IS Large Pulse take up 1 more Ton vs Clan LPL,

=Ballistic=(IS +1FreeAmmo(1FreeTon&1FreeCrit)=
IS AC2 +Ammo take up same Tonnage But 2 Less Crits vs Clan UAC2 +Ammo,
IS AC5 +Ammo take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan UAC5 +Ammo,
IS AC10 +Ammo take up 1 more Tons and 1 more Crit vs Clan AC10 +Ammo,
IS AC20 +Ammo take up 1 more Tons and 1 more Crit vs Clan UAC20 +Ammo,
IS Gauss +Ammo take up 2 more Ton vs Clan Gauss +Ammo,

=Missile=(IS +1FreeAmmo(1FreeTon&1FreeCrit)=
IS LRM5 +Ammo take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan,
IS LRM10 +Ammo take up 1.5 more Ton vs Clan LRM10,
IS LRM15 +Ammo take up 2.5 more Ton vs Clan LRM15,
IS LRM20 +Ammo take up 4 more Ton vs Clan LRM20,
-
IS SRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 Less Ton and 1 Less Crit vs Clan SRM2 +Ammo,
IS SRM4 +Ammo take up 1 Less Crit vs Clan SRM4 +Ammo,
IS SRM6 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SRM6 +Ammo,
-
IS SSRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 Less Ton and 1 Less Crit vs Clan SSRM2 +Ammo,

As you can See the Weapons Now Appear more Balanced,
some Larger Ballistics and Missiles are Still down but are Much Closer,
This Also Keeps with the Idea that IS & Clan are to be Asymmetrically Balanced,
Equal But Play abit different for Flavor and Fluff of the Faction,
-
this Change also give some Smaller IS weapons Advantage over Clan,
Such as AC2s and SRM2-4, this will also Encourage Lights to take these Weapons,
Which Could really help some IS Tonnage Starved Lights, (LCT, COM, ect),


=8=Please NOTE=8=
Im not Proposing the Changing of Tonnage or Crits for Any Weapon,
Im Proposing Every IS Ammo Weapon Gain a Free Ton of Ammo Internally,
this is to bring IS Weapon Tonnage and Crits closer to Clan Weapons,


=0=Explanations=0=
=Game Reason=
For Balance Purposes of IS Ammo Based Weapons will have 1 Ton Ammo Built into the Weapon,
This is here to Negate the Advantage of Clan Weapons Weighing less and taking up less Crits,
-
=Lore Reason=
due to the Feed Type Systems of the IS, all IS Ammo Weapons have to be Pre-loaded with Ammo,
Clans due to their Technology have be able to Negate this with Advanced Feed Systems leading to Lighter Weapons,


Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Explanations,
Edit2- some Reworks,

seriuosly, wheres this idea come from? Is it yours or is someone floating a proposed change and letting a mod take the heat XD

[Navid A1]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 07 August 2016 - 08:48 PM, said:

seriuosly, wheres this idea come from? Is it yours or is someone floating a proposed change and letting a mod take the heat XD

Andi is known for having radical and lore breaking ideas (sometimes good ones, and sometimes not so good ones)

this thread was from a time he was not a mod.

Edited by Navid A1, 07 August 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Navid A1, on 07 August 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

Andi is known for having radical and lore breaking ideas (sometimes good ones, and sometimes not so good ones)

this thread was from a time he was not a mod.

didnt know it was a necro, I just saw it pop up lol

[Andi Nagasia]

Poll Added Please (Vote), thanks

Navid A1, on 07 August 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

Andi is known for having radical and lore breaking ideas (sometimes good ones, and sometimes not so good ones)

this thread was from a time he was not a mod.

yup, not all my ideas are great, i know this,
but sometimes ideas need to be said,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Poll Added Please (Vote), thanks


yup, not all my ideas are great, i know this,
but sometimes ideas need to be said,

This is an absolutely terrible idea. IS weapons already have superior performance to Clan weapons, now you want to give them free ammo?

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

This is an absolutely terrible idea. IS weapons already have superior performance to Clan weapons, now you want to give them free ammo?

the idea would be to balance them this way then reduce weapon Quirks which currently balance IS to Clan,
i would rather have all weapons be balance then have Quirks for Flavor than the Seasoning running the dish,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

the idea would be to balance them this way then reduce weapon Quirks which currently balance IS to Clan,
i would rather have all weapons be balance then have Quirks for Flavor than the Seasoning running the dish,

Its not weapon quirks that are the problem here. Its weapon performance. IS weapons better than Clan by virtue of thier inherent qualities, not quirks. Quirks are just a bonus.

[Battlemaster56]

IS don't need extra ton of ammo, what they need is a huge overhaul of their quirks and the mechs that doing bad or rarely seen a day of play should get those quirks to compensate their weakness, and give IS their equivalent to UAC's Streaks, and Er Lasers. But this won't happen ever as long PGI stay lazy and not attempt do something so easy.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

Its not weapon quirks that are the problem here. Its weapon performance. IS weapons better than Clan by virtue of thier inherent qualities, not quirks. Quirks are just a bonus.

Battlemaster56, on 14 September 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

IS don't need extra ton of ammo, what they need is a huge overhaul of their quirks and the mechs that doing bad or rarely seen a day of play should get those quirks to compensate their weakness, and give IS their equivalent to UAC's Streaks, and Er Lasers. But this won't happen ever as long PGI stay lazy and not attempt do something so easy.

just this, but its hard to suggest many Clan UAC/AC changes when this Crit/Tonnage Disparity exists,
not that it matters as much, but its been used as an Excuse why Clan weapons cant receave a buff,

and all this 1Ton will do is make both sides be abit more balanced Crit/Tonnage wise,
wail also preserving what makes IS & Clan Different, and Lore wise theirs nothing stopping this ether,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

just this, but its hard to suggest many Clan UAC/AC changes when this Crit/Tonnage Disparity exists,
not that it matters as much, but its been used as an Excuse why Clan weapons cant receave a buff,

and all this 1Ton will do is make both sides be abit more balanced Crit/Tonnage wise,
wail also preserving what makes IS & Clan Different, and Lore wise theirs nothing stopping this ether,

Except, all you are doing is buffing IS further. We don't need that right now. What we need is to have weapon qualities shuffled around to make things fair.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

Except, all you are doing is buffing IS further. We don't need that right now. What we need is to have weapon qualities shuffled around to make things fair.

Yes, but as i stated earlier,
this would come with reduction of IS weapons Stats, or the Increase of Clan Weapon Stats,
its hard to move forward when you are comparing Apples to Oranges,
this makes both sides apples just of slightly varying sizes,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Yes, but as i stated earlier,
this would come with reduction of IS weapons Stats, or the Increase of Clan Weapon Stats,
its hard to move forward when you are comparing Apples to Oranges,
this makes both sides apples just of slightly varying sizes,

No, it makes one side apples and the other side rotten trash. As things stand, the only things that are (barely) keeping IS balanced to Clan is the size and tonnage differences in their weapons.

Edited by Requiemking, 14 September 2016 - 05:44 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

No, it makes one side apples and the other side rotten trash. As things stand, the only things that are (barely) keeping IS balanced to Clan is the size and tonnage differences in their weapons.

True balance cant just be well IS things are Good, but Clan things are Smaller/Lighter, thats no Balance,
as ive said Stats will need to change with this, but at least it brings them closer wail also keeping them different,
you keep talking as if i say IS Ballistics are under preforming, in not saying that,
what im saying is this will help us find a better balance between IS and Clan,

wail we are on this, let me ask you, how much Cooldown or Velocity is equal to 2Crit or 2Ton?
its alot harder to balance then if both sides if both sides are closer so better balance can be found,
thats that this is about, not buffing IS weapons, but allowing for better Balance,

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

Its not weapon quirks that are the problem here. Its weapon performance. IS weapons better than Clan by virtue of thier inherent qualities, not quirks. Quirks are just a bonus.

just like how battlemechs are better than omnimechs. THATS just funny

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

True balance cant just be well IS things are Good, but Clan things are Smaller/Lighter, thats no Balance,
as ive said Stats will need to change with this, but at least it brings them closer wail also keeping them different,
you keep talking as if i say IS Ballistics are under preforming, in not saying that,
what im saying is this will help us find a better balance between IS and Clan,

wail we are on this, let me ask you, how much Cooldown or Velocity is equal to 2Crit or 2Ton?
its alot harder to balance then if both sides if both sides are closer so better balance can be found,
thats that this is about, not buffing IS weapons, but allowing for better Balance,

Except, what your describing won't balance things. Not even close. All it will do is further secure IS having the best Ballistics and Missiles. You want to balance IS and Clan weapons? Swap weapon qualities around.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Except, what your describing won't balance things. Not even close. All it will do is further secure IS having the best Ballistics and Missiles. You want to balance IS and Clan weapons? Swap weapon qualities around.

and as ive said i feel this is needed to help IS to Clan Tonnage & Crit Disparity,
thats my opinion, all you keep repeating is it will throw off balance right now,
i can agree with that but thats not why im Suggesting this,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

and as ive said i feel this is needed to help IS to Clan Tonnage & Crit Disparity,
thats my opinion, all you keep repeating is it will throw off balance right now,
i can agree with that but thats not why im Suggesting this,

And it will throw off balance in the future too.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 September 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

And it will throw off balance in the future too.

perhaps but as PGI is now testing Quirk-less PTS5,
perhaps doing this now would be for the best,
at least to Test it out to see how it fairs,

also
=0=PLEASE VOTE=0=