13 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

As it was mentioned in the last town hall that PGI wants to limit high damage alpha strikes, here's a suggestion of a change I can live with. (I like high alpha, but I also see how adding a little more trade off will improve the experience for many).


1. All fusion engines come with a capacitor that stores power for weapons, which the fusion engine recharges at a consistent rate. This capacitor allows weapons to consume far more power than the fusion engine can safely generate at any instant, and a few seconds is enough to recharge it from empty to full.

2. When the capacitor is empty and a weapon demands more power, the fusion engine will enter overdrive to supply it, however this generates excess heat and may also cause damage to the CT component.

3. The standard capacitor rating is 30, and recharges at a rate of 7.5/sec. There is actually some reserve capacity in it, equal to a rating of 10, however whenever the reserve is used, the engine enters overdrive mode until the whole capacitor is fully charged. During overdrive the recharge rate is 15/sec however the engine also produces excess heat at 4/sec. Should the reserves be fully drained as well, the engine will induce an artificial overload in the fusion reaction, a process which can produce near unlimited power at the cost of melting the engine and everything around it. Excess heat generated is equal to the power drain in this state, plus damage to both the engine and CT component at 1/4 the excess heat amount regardless of total mech thermal state.

4. With the exception of the Gauss rifle, all weapons drain the capacitor at a 1:1 ratio with it's heat rating, firing 3 PPCs will instantly drain the capacitor. Firing lasers totaling 30 heat with a 1 second duration will not fully drain it however, as it is being recharged constantly and will be at 7.5 when the lasers stop. Gauss rifles require a constant 1 energy/sec to operate, so equipping 2 Gauss rifles will reduce the effective energy generation to 5.5/sec down from 7.5.

5. All fusion engines comes with the same capacitor size for cost effectiveness, higher ratings indicate the power channeled into a mechs mobility systems. However certain mechs come with a supplementary capacitor built in, which will perform in tandem with the engine's capacitor.

For implementation,
1. Visual indicator on the bottom of the cross hair, similar to MASC.
2. Remove all ghost heat
3. Make torso weapons and arms without lower actuators converge at 25-50% of current rate, however a maximum convergence point at the weapons effective range limit (no parallel lines)

Edited by ironnightbird, 30 March 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[thisisxerxes]

Not bad - but I do think it overcomplicates things, and simplicity is golden. We already have a heat meter, we know that heat regulates weapons, imo having heat + capacitor charge just makes it less intuitive. Pick one. heat or charge.

Imo, charge makes more sense. You have so much energy for weapons, they can output this much damage, anything more above that and the shots fizzle or beams have reduced energy... but heat's been such a core component of Battletech games for so long,...eh, its not going anywhere, and is probably more thematic.

[Nightbird]

thisisxerxes, on 30 March 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

Not bad - but I do think it overcomplicates things, and simplicity is golden. We already have a heat meter, we know that heat regulates weapons, imo having heat + capacitor charge just makes it less intuitive. Pick one. heat or charge.

Imo, charge makes more sense. You have so much energy for weapons, they can output this much damage, anything more above that and the shots fizzle or beams have reduced energy... but heat's been such a core component of Battletech games for so long,...eh, its not going anywhere, and is probably more thematic.

Thanks for your reply Xerxes, I edited my post when I realized I left some important parts out. My suggestion includes removing the ghost heat system, which I think everyone agrees is a bit convoluted, and fixing torso weapon convergence. Without ghost heat and with a capacitor, you can alpha 4 LPL or 3 c-LPL, 2 AC20s/C-AC20s, extremely large LRM/SRM volleys, and large small class laser volleys. The only thing that's hurt is medium range laser volleys and even then it's slightly. The net effect should be far more loadout diversity, rather than all laser vomit all the time.

[Cy Mitchell]

I am OK with the way things are except I feel that the repercussions of high heat need to be ramped up. For example"

65-70% heat results in 50% reduction in speed and torso twist and it last 10 sec after dropping back below threshold
+
75-80% heat results in unstable electronics. Targeting, ECM and info gathering intermittent failure (maybe radar derp too)
+
90% heat results in weapon fire control malfunctions for all weapon systems

The threshold percentages I use as examples are negotiable but that is the general idea.

We will see what they come up with. Hopefully, we will get a clue on Friday.

[Crockdaddy]

Rampage, on 30 March 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

I am OK with the way things are except I feel that the repercussions of high heat need to be ramped up. For example"

65-70% heat results in 50% reduction in speed and torso twist and it last 10 sec after dropping back below threshold
+
75-80% heat results in unstable electronics. Targeting, ECM and info gathering intermittent failure (maybe radar derp too)
+
90% heat results in weapon fire control malfunctions for all weapon systems

The threshold percentages I use as examples are negotiable but that is the general idea.

We will see what they come up with. Hopefully, we will get a clue on Friday.

Interesting but with the way most weapon systems work I can't see how this would work out. You'd basically need to re-work the economy as well (or in fact implement an economy would be nice).

[Cy Mitchell]

Crockdaddy, on 30 March 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

Interesting but with the way most weapon systems work I can't see how this would work out. You'd basically need to re-work the economy as well (or in fact implement an economy would be nice).

I must be missing something. How would this have an effect on the economy (or lack thereof)?

[Nightbird]

Rampage, on 31 March 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

I must be missing something. How would this have an effect on the economy (or lack thereof)?

Probably a mis-post, from Crockdaddy.

I think your idea is really a nerf of the nominal heat capacity in the range of 35%, which is too severe in my opinion, and doesn't address big alphas since mechs with big 60 point laser alphas at 440 meters actually stay under 70% heat capacity in one alpha, and thus would not be impacted. Under this capacitor system, that same alpha will trigger an artificial overload in the fusion engine, which sounds cool but is in fact really hot

[Cy Mitchell]

The percentages I posted are arbitrary. Those would have to be worked out. Every Mech should be able to Alpha strike. They should even be able to do a big Alpha strike. They should just not be able to do another one for a long time and should be a sitting duck for an extended period of time following that big Alpha strike. The problem right now is they can Alpha strike with impunity.

It is a problem when the entire game play of CW and even high Tier QP is one button Mechs that can Alpha strike time after time without repercussion and the only way anyone can compete at that level is to follow the same mold.

Laser vomit Alpha
SRM Alpha
Dakka Alpha (to some extent)
or some combination of the three but still an Alpha.

My idea is designed to progressively increase the severity of the negative repercussions based on the level of abuse. At what level it starts and how it is accomplished is totally up to the game developers. As long as there are consequences to abusing Alphas, I will be good with it.

Edited by Rampage, 31 March 2016 - 04:05 PM.

[Nightbird]

Well, I hope they don't nerf the max heat capacity. This game's TTK is very high already, any higher and it'll cater to senior citizens lol

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Can i shamelessly ask for rebuffs to gauss, ppc and ac5?

Bring back sniping since their alphas are much smaller then laser vomit!

There we go- high alphas fixed!

[Bad Pun]

I'm doing some copy/paste of a post of mine elsewhere.

I like Alphas, they have a place in the BT universe and a well placed one has its own skill set. But I digress.

"Ghost heat may need better scaling, though I'm not sure quite how that could be set up. Firing three large lasers in a cold mech shouldn't have a crazy chunk of heat tacked on while four doesn't seem to have much more of a penalty (My observation).

And having a magic number of weapons you're allowed to fire at one before getting a backhand to each and every heatsink you have? Nah, I don't see why there's a magic barrier between six medium lasers and seven. That seventh is just arbitrary.

How about two mediums are a little hotter than a single one twice, three a little more so and so forth, maybe counting how many are on cooldown instead of the global half second?

I'm certain that someone smarter than me can help round this out."


Maybe that's an easier place to start? With the Flamer's Rube Goldberg heat scaling we know PGI can manage something like this already.

[Cy Mitchell]

ironnightbird, on 31 March 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

Well, I hope they don't nerf the max heat capacity. This game's TTK is very high already, any higher and it'll cater to senior citizens lol

Hmmm. I have watched some CW matches and been in a few where the wait time to get in to the game was about 300% longer than the entire match. That is 48 Mechs Alphaed down in under 10-12 minutes. Those are supposed to be armored behemoths not soldiers clothed in combat fatigues. Yeah, that was PUGs against a mostly organized team and they were victims of focused fire but that does not seem like a long TTK to me. I have been on both sides of QP games that lasted well under 5 minutes. TTK too slow? Not in my experience.

I guess the problem is that there is no reward in any of the game modes other than farming c-bills and EXP so a lot of players want a quick wipe, a fast payout and on to the next game. I personally enjoy the battles, the strategy, the movement, teamwork and the challenge of meeting a worthy enemy that gives me a challenging fight that last for more than 30 seconds. Therefore, I would be happy with the TTK being a bit longer. But no one is taking away focus fire or teamwork so kill times should not be effected too much for organized teams.

[Nightbird]

Compared to other games in 1vs1, fast ttk is <1 sec, medium is 5-10 secs, long is >15 secs. MWO is >30 seconds assuming you know how to play

[Nightbird]

Probably not worth a bump but oh well, the energy cost tied to weapon heat is actually an important component of this suggestion to keep many builds viable, as opposed to 1 damage 1 energy implementation on practice.