67 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Hey, here's an idea....how about we use the Tier rating as a multiplier?

Let's say you net 100k cbills in a match because you only have trial mechs and aiming is too complicated for you.

If you're T5, that means 500k cbills.....and if you're T1, you only get the 100k. Sure, that sucks for the experienced guy that's played this game for quite some time to get to T1, but who cares?

Experienced players aren't the target audience for PGI. Once you've spent your money, they'd much rather you left and found yourself another game to play. Retention has NEVER been a focus of PGI.

[Soulos]

Willard Phule, on 06 April 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Hey, here's an idea....how about we use the Tier rating as a multiplier?

Let's say you net 100k cbills in a match because you only have trial mechs and aiming is too complicated for you.

If you're T5, that means 500k cbills.....and if you're T1, you only get the 100k. Sure, that sucks for the experienced guy that's played this game for quite some time to get to T1, but who cares?

Experienced players aren't the target audience for PGI. Once you've spent your money, they'd much rather you left and found yourself another game to play. Retention has NEVER been a focus of PGI.

See? This guy gets it. High tier players do not need more. They already have so much compared to a new player. Help the people who don't have anything and you help everyone in CW. Think about it this way. How many times have you seen a guy do less then 500 damage with 4 'mechs? Did you ever think to ask him how many of those are mastered? How many have modules? Hell, how many are elited? Think about it, these guys just need a helping hand.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” ― Hélder Câmara

^Or a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Edited by Soulos, 06 April 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[sycocys]

The only one problem with that is CW doesn't modify your PSR rating.

Not that it really bothers me because c-bills are about useless at this point but I could tank my T2 to T3 and earn triple forever. Then drop in my preferred decks and pull an easy 2.5-3 mill a match. Basically it just ends up putting modules and xl engines in every mech I own.

[MaxFool]

It's not like every tier 1 player is rich and has all mechs. You'd incentivize the best and most experienced player to not play CW, I don't think that's quite what we want. CW is supposed to be the competitive mode.

[Helsbane]

Soulos, on 06 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

See? This guy gets it. High tier players do not need more. They already have so much compared to a new player. Help the people who don't have anything and you help everyone in CW. Think about it this way. How many times have you seen a guy do less then 500 damage with 4 'mechs? Did you ever think to ask him how many of those are mastered? How many have modules? Hell, how many are elited? Think about it, these guys just need a helping hand.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” ― Hélder Câmara

^Or a Bernie Sanders supporter.

So very, VERY fired...

[MischiefSC]

Soulos, on 06 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

See? This guy gets it. High tier players do not need more. They already have so much compared to a new player. Help the people who don't have anything and you help everyone in CW. Think about it this way. How many times have you seen a guy do less then 500 damage with 4 'mechs? Did you ever think to ask him how many of those are mastered? How many have modules? Hell, how many are elited? Think about it, these guys just need a helping hand.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” ― Hélder Câmara

^Or a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Except there is no inherited wealth or socioeconomic bias from birth here.

Everyone started the game on the same foot, everyone has the exact same opportunities, gets the same payout from matches. We already have wage equality.

Ergo anything but a meritocracy Would be instituting a bias against being successful. You are effectively recommending a system that rewards people extra for failing.

Not just NO, but LOL NO. What you're implying is that equality itself is a lie and even if given equal opportunities some people are inherently inferior and need bias to carry them and anyone who is inherently superior (in the model you're proposing) should be rewarded less and obligated to carry those who are unwilling to try as hard.

What you're proposing is creating discrimination in a discrimimation-free environment. Everyone has the same potential and opportunities, the difference in payout is effort related.

We all started from the same spot. Someone who worked harder or carried more from a position of equality is not obligated to carry those who came after or put forward less effort. We are in competition, not cooperation. This is a competitive environment.

[Chef Kerensky]

PFC Carsten, on 06 April 2016 - 02:39 AM, said:

In the same manner, farming obviously inferior opfors should be discouraged, since it massively discourages new players as well. Maybe tie the winners rewards to the time needed to achieve it, so they have a motivation and reward to end unbalanced matches quickly, so everyone can hope for better luck next time ASAP.

I'm on board with this but first dropships need to be nerfed again so speeding up an already -decided match is feasible

Edited by Chef Kerensky, 06 April 2016 - 04:08 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

Chef Kerensky, on 06 April 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm on board with this but first dropships need to be nerfed again so speeding up an already -decided match is feasible

1. Rewards need to be greater period otherwise what is the incentive? There is no deep immersion to be had. I can make 1 million cbills fairly easily in 3 public queue matches (average time of 22 minutes) or I can wait 4 to 10 minutes then drop then watch a team hide in their drop zone for 30 minutes as we ferret them out.

2. Drop ships with ERLL are silly. Tone it down. If a team is getting stomped that hard they just sit in the drop zone. Be smarter with how and where you drop mechs. Maybe on defense do something like a "Hot drop" (super fast drops of reinforcements).

... I hate to admit it but I think I hate faction warfare right now.

[Livewyr]

So, this thread went from the whining of the mediocre to a discussion of socioeconomic policy in microcosm. (complete with quotes)

And who said this wasn't a thinking man's shooter forum.

Edited by Livewyr, 08 April 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

Basic ... CW right now isn't worth the time vs reward. Hopefully CW 3 will be. That is largely up to PGI and to a lesser extent the player base.

[Willard Phule]

Soulos, on 06 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

See? This guy gets it. High tier players do not need more. They already have so much compared to a new player. Help the people who don't have anything and you help everyone in CW. Think about it this way. How many times have you seen a guy do less then 500 damage with 4 'mechs? Did you ever think to ask him how many of those are mastered? How many have modules? Hell, how many are elited? Think about it, these guys just need a helping hand.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” ― Hélder Câmara

^Or a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Well, yeah, but us experienced guys should also be given a "trainer bonus" similar to the "cadet bonus" every time we have to drop with a T4 or T5 as well. Just saying.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 08 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

Basic ... CW right now isn't worth the time vs reward. Hopefully CW 3 will be. That is largely up to PGI and to a lesser extent the player base.

It's because nobody is around. It gets frustrating to try and play with nobody there. It was fun off and on, it's not that it's somehow different. Just your tolerance for wasted time ebbs and flows.

[Helsbane]

Willard Phule, on 08 April 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Well, yeah, but us experienced guys should also be given a "trainer bonus" similar to the "cadet bonus" every time we have to drop with a T4 or T5 as well. Just saying.

I want a 'towing capacity' bonus for those drops where I break 2000 - 2500 damage and have guys along that can't break 300 with all four rides combined.

EDIT: spelling is hrad....

Edited by Helsbane, 08 April 2016 - 01:20 PM.

[fbj]

Can I just get paid when I log onto MWO?

[gloowa]

fbj, on 09 April 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Can I just get paid when I log onto MWO?

Planetside 2 did it.
"You have been awarded 7 certification points, soldier. Use them wisely."
<checks price on smg: 1k certs> <curses sony for mocking him>

[DarklightCA]

Will Hawker, on 03 April 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

You wonder why people other than hardcore units don't play CW and when people give a reason you crucify them. It's this attitude that makes people not want to bother with CW. CW isn't there just to cater to the elite few there has to be some incentives to participate, especially when you're going to lose the majority of the time and waste a lot of time doing so.

Actually the reality of Community Warfare is the exact opposite of that, there are not a lot of "hardcore units" that play Community Warfare. The "elite few" you are talking about are units that understand the concept of Community Warfare and play it to win it.

They do so by grouping up, playing optimized builds for the map they are playing and give actual effort to win their games. Considering Community Warfare is based on Unit planetary conquest, I'd say that it is meant to cater to those "elite few" that are only playing the gamemode as it's suppose to be played.

Majority of the population comes into the gamemode not looking to play with other people, treat it like another quick play and bring non-optimized mechs and give little to no effort to win their games and treat the gamemode like some easy reward farm they can milk without any effort at all which is completely incorrect.

Some of those people even going as far as blaming the "elite few" for playing the gamemode as it is meant to be played. If there were a lot more "elite few" players and units in Community Warfare the gamemode wouldn't be as garbage to play as it is now.

Edited by DarklightCA, 09 April 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

The mindset of quite a few players posting does have me pondering what they expect out of playing a game.

"Playing CW/FW is a waste of time" in fact this comes up for public drops too.

Personally I play the game because I enjoy the combat mechanic of the game and in general I spend more time in combat durinfg FW matches than in public drops. This is not a job, at best it is a hobby and I play it to spend time with likeminded people and shoot at other likeminded people with digital weapons, while pilotting digital avatars of war.

I do not look at the "time spent +/-/= income gained" to quantify whether I'm having fun. The cbills at the end of the match is nice but it's HOW I earned them that makes it worthwhile or not.

"Earnings are too low" this comes up for wins and losses.

Again this is a perception thing but saying you're not earning enough for LOSING is non-sensical, if you want to earn more cbills there is a pretty straight forward route; try hard, play better, stick with your team mates. Rack up the kills/assists and the various cbill modifiers will soon push those earnings up regardless of winning or losing.


As usual just my opinion, for what it's worth but perhaps some players need to look at why they are playing and what they are looking to gain from the experience.

[MischiefSC]

DarklightCA, on 09 April 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

Actually the reality of Community Warfare is the exact opposite of that, there are not a lot of "hardcore units" that play Community Warfare. The "elite few" you are talking about are units that understand the concept of Community Warfare and play it to win it.

They do so by grouping up, playing optimized builds for the map they are playing and give actual effort to win their games. Considering Community Warfare is based on Unit planetary conquest, I'd say that it is meant to cater to those "elite few" that are only playing the gamemode as it's suppose to be played.

Majority of the population comes into the gamemode not looking to play with other people, treat it like another quick play and bring non-optimized mechs and give little to no effort to win their games and treat the gamemode like some easy reward farm they can milk without any effort at all which is completely incorrect.

Some of those people even going as far as blaming the "elite few" for playing the gamemode as it is meant to be played. If there were a lot more "elite few" players and units in Community Warfare the gamemode wouldn't be as garbage to play as it is now.

Split queue fixes this. The "It's someone else's fault I lose" group goes solo queue. The "I understand that teamwork wins" group goes group queue.

We just need to be proactive in controlling active fronts. I get that nobody wants to - it's the reality of the situation though.

We really ought to just have a thread where we list potential active borders when CW 3 starts and vote on where we're going to spend, say, 2 weeks focused. Then the next 2 weeks can be another related front.

So first 2 weeks is FRR vs CGB/Wolf primary, CSJ/Kurita secondary for example. 2nd 2 weeks is CSJ vs Kurita primary, FRR vs CGB/Wolf secondary. 3rd 2 weeks is CJF/Steiner and IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan.

Get what I mean? So if you're CJF or Davion those first 2 weeks you're dropping defense for FRR/Wolf/CGB respectively. You'll get your turn in the spotlight but all factions doing their own thing doesn't really work right now all the time.

The queues need split. Yes, population - but you can't build a foundation on don'tcares. They're toxic to the environment and they are the behavior that makes many people hate CW. We need to make it work without them, then grow the population the right way.

[C E Dwyer]

C-bill rewards, or lack of them, was not the reason I stopped playing FW.

Counter attack hiding under the drop ships while having a numbers advantage was, and from what I've read, doesn't look like it will ever be fixed, as phase three is it apart from tweaking.

what with solo queue splitting, I really don't think the issue after this patch is going to be credit rewards being to low

[DarklightCA]

MischiefSC, on 09 April 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

Split queue fixes this. The "It's someone else's fault I lose" group goes solo queue. The "I understand that teamwork wins" group goes group queue.

We just need to be proactive in controlling active fronts. I get that nobody wants to - it's the reality of the situation though.

We really ought to just have a thread where we list potential active borders when CW 3 starts and vote on where we're going to spend, say, 2 weeks focused. Then the next 2 weeks can be another related front.

So first 2 weeks is FRR vs CGB/Wolf primary, CSJ/Kurita secondary for example. 2nd 2 weeks is CSJ vs Kurita primary, FRR vs CGB/Wolf secondary. 3rd 2 weeks is CJF/Steiner and IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan.

Get what I mean? So if you're CJF or Davion those first 2 weeks you're dropping defense for FRR/Wolf/CGB respectively. You'll get your turn in the spotlight but all factions doing their own thing doesn't really work right now all the time.

The queues need split. Yes, population - but you can't build a foundation on don'tcares. They're toxic to the environment and they are the behavior that makes many people hate CW. We need to make it work without them, then grow the population the right way.

The split queue will solve none of it, all it does is give people without tags their own queue. In the tagged queue the majority population will still be solo players and you will still have people unwilling to cooperate with their team. Tagged groups will still walk all over them with little competition. You are not getting rid of any toxicity or making the game anymore competition through a split queue.

I know your in favor of it and you got your reasons on why you think it will work but you know as well as I do that having a tag doesn't make you good at the game or less of a toxic player.

Edited by DarklightCA, 09 April 2016 - 04:19 PM.