93 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 02 April 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Actually, the IS ML gets full double fall off to 540m + range module.

The ERSL gets 70% fall off to 340m + range module.

It is not perfectly workable range at all...the IS ML gets 200m+ range advantage.

That is why small class lasers suck. They have no range, and they do not even get double their piddly range.

360 base max range, actually. 80%

It's also why the Clan small lasers are absolutely amazing...because they can reach past 300M while costing little heat, but also dealing high damage inside their optimal range.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 02 April 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

360 base max range, actually. 80%

It's also why the Clan small lasers are absolutely amazing...because they can reach past 300M while costing little heat, but also dealing high damage inside their optimal range.

It is still a pittance...and many would not argue they are in a good place at all...

Even at 400m max range versus 540, there is disparate range from the IS ML. Clan small lasers did not need a nerf.

Edited by Gyrok, 02 April 2016 - 08:24 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

5 ERML - all torso mounted for decent poking
6 ERML - for side poking with more firepower
6 SPL - for being a more heat efficient and effective brawler (cheetah is more useful for scouting than brawls)
9 ERSL - You listed this, not sure how much I will like it, but may try it out because it can.
1 Flamer/4 SPL/4 MG - Troll mech, probably not too useful, but will be fun at least.
2 ERLL - Trolly but may but could give the SCat competition for ERLL role since the 3 ERLL Scat is hot and the Viper is able to constantly run fast, but considering its usage on the Cheetah (ie none in higher tiers) I wouldn't really expect much out of it.

Either way, I still wish we had gotten this over the Fridge, it will probably need quirks just like any other 40 ton Clan omni, but the potential is definitely there.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Just going to use it like a flying the Ice Ferret.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Gyrok, on 02 April 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

It is still a pittance...and many would not argue they are in a good place at all...

Even at 400m max range versus 540, there is disparate range from the IS ML. Clan small lasers did not need a nerf.

C-ERSLs do the same damage as MLs with half the weight, 25% shorter cooldown and 25% less heat. The only downsides is 25% shorter optimal range, 33% shorter max range, and 0.1 second of beam duration.

That you're complaining about the Clan SMALL laser's lack of range vs the IS MEDIUM laser is a testament to the C-ERSL's effectiveness Try comparing the C-ERSL and C-SPL vs their IS counterparts. It's not even a competition.

[Gyrok]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 April 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

C-ERSLs do the same damage as MLs with half the weight, 25% shorter cooldown and 25% less heat. The only downsides is 25% shorter optimal range, 33% shorter max range, and 0.1 second of beam duration.

That you're complaining about the Clan SMALL laser's lack of range vs the IS MEDIUM laser is a testament to the C-ERSL's effectiveness Try comparing the C-ERSL and C-SPL vs their IS counterparts. It's not even a competition.

ER weapons do not compare for range to non-ER weapons.

Give IS ERSLs and we can have a legitimate discussion about range.

[Spheroid]

er smalls are amazing. I wreck plenty of face in my Jenner IIC and Cheetah.

[Bishop Steiner]

Spheroid, on 03 April 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

er smalls are amazing. I wreck plenty of face in my Jenner IIC and Cheetah.

Just don't tell Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy that, apparently.

(Of course, I sure see a whole lot of those little buggers represented in actual comp teams. Been shot by a lot of them, too. Little buggers sting.)

[Kaeb Odellas]

Gyrok, on 03 April 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

ER weapons do not compare for range to non-ER weapons.

Give IS ERSLs and we can have a legitimate discussion about range.

1. Comparing the C-ERSL to an IS ERSL that doesn't exist in this game is utter nonsense.
2. The IS ERSL would still only deal 3 damage and have a shorter range than the Clan version, if PGI uses TT stats.
3. You compared an ER weapon and a non-ER weapon in this very thread!.

EDIT: For that matter, try comparing the C-SPL and the IS SPL. The C-SPL gets +50% damage and range for +50% beam duration and heat. The C-SPL is undeniably superior.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 03 April 2016 - 06:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 April 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

1. Comparing the C-ERSL to an IS ERSL that doesn't exist in this game is utter nonsense.
2. The IS ERSL would still only deal 3 damage and have a shorter range than the Clan version, if PGI uses TT stats.
3. You compared an ER weapon and a non-ER weapon in this very thread!.

It's called grasping for straws. He does that a lot. *shrugs*

[TheMadTypist]

I've got some Nova builds I'd like to fit on the Viper, though they'd probably be pretty hot. 4ERML + 4ERSL with a little firing discipline might be passable, the Nova version works well for poking the big things and knife-fighting the small (though I admit, the Nova also has machineguns and a shedload extra heatsinks). The 268 points of armor leaves this thing in a bad place for knifefighting though, unless it gets cicada-style quirks.

The ideal of course is always a single group of six, so six ER-small + 2 flamers might be worthwhile, though flamers "flame-out" too quickly for my liking. 30 pinpoint plus interference might be okay, but it's still a knifefighter, for such close combat the nova might still be better suited even without the speed.

4ER meds and 4MG were oversinked and undergunned on the Nova. Maybe they're worth it on a 40 tonner?

ER large are too heavy to take advantage of, you'll only get 2 and then get stuck with half a ton of filler. ER small point defense? meh. Didn't work on the Shadowcat, and that thing had ECM.

Can we do anything with the M hardpoints? not really. Not enough tonnage for LRM ammo, even Streaks are heavy- 2xSSRM4 = 4 tons, with a ton of ammo each you're down to 2.5 tons of backup- 5 ER small? 2 ER Med + 1 ER Small? normal clan SRM's are of questionable use if you only get two slots, especially separated between arm and torso aim points.

If we got some sort of battlevalue system this 'mech might have a bigger role, but short of some unexpected salvation (like magical hitboxes/geometry) it might be fun but probably not a headliner. And if they price it like they've been pricing single packs, or higher due to "Omni" status, definitely not worth the cash. (unless you go for the 20 dollar pack, but who spends real money and walks away without a +cbill bonus 'mech? What's the point? In my mind temporary exclusivity is not worth a RMT)

[Roadkill]

It won't be able to effectively use 9E. The ACH with 6 CSPL is already too hot, and CERSL generate the same amount of heat per laser. 9 would be ludicrous. 4 MG + 4 CSPL (or 5) is likely better.

139 kph tweaked also doesn't seem fast enough for it to be survivable. Hit boxes will be the determinant, as is often the case.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Roadkill, on 03 April 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

It won't be able to effectively use 9E. The ACH with 6 CSPL is already too hot, and CERSL generate the same amount of heat per laser. 9 would be ludicrous. 4 MG + 4 CSPL (or 5) is likely better.

139 kph tweaked also doesn't seem fast enough for it to be survivable. Hit boxes will be the determinant, as is often the case.

Hitbox-wise, it looks like it will be roughly equivalent to the Shadow Cat, assuming they have the same legs (and it looks like they do)

[Widowmaker1981]

5xC-S(P)L + 4xC-MG

6xC-S(P)L + DHS

no other builds. 2xERLL seems like a daft build. You can run the same thing on a Shadow Cat and have ECM, which is basically essential if you want to try and snipe with a fragile chassis, plus more DHS. Not like ERLL snipers need to be that fast.

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 April 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

5xC-S(P)L + 4xC-MG

6xC-S(P)L + DHS

no other builds. 2xERLL seems like a daft build. You can run the same thing on a Shadow Cat and have ECM, which is basically essential if you want to try and snipe with a fragile chassis, plus more DHS. Not like ERLL snipers need to be that fast.

just cause it's not comp ideal doesn't mean it wont get run. A lot. Because people are facetime averse. And speed matter when your low DPS 2xERLL sniper draws the attention of a Light Wolf Pack.

[MeiSooHaityu]

A bit ehh, but... 2 LPLaser sniper? Kind of a smaller version of a common Shadowcat build. Will that fit and not be a blast furnace? I'm not sure, my clan knowledge is a bit limited as mostly an IS guy.

[cazidin]

Roadkill, on 03 April 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

It won't be able to effectively use 9E. The ACH with 6 CSPL is already too hot, and CERSL generate the same amount of heat per laser. 9 would be ludicrous. 4 MG + 4 CSPL (or 5) is likely better.

139 kph tweaked also doesn't seem fast enough for it to be survivable. Hit boxes will be the determinant, as is often the case.

Almost 140 KPH WITH 8 JJ isn't fast enough?! This thing should and will dance around the battlefield like a mechanized ballerina!

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mcgral18, on 02 April 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

360 base max range, actually. 80%

It's also why the Clan small lasers are absolutely amazing...because they can reach past 300M while costing little heat, but also dealing high damage inside their optimal range.

I run an Ebon Jaguar with 2 LPLasers and 6 ERSLasers. It is amazing IMO. I mount a ton of DHS to keep it cool, plus I run a Targeting Comp III and an ERSlaser range module that combined gets me 232m optimal on the smalls.

I know that still isn't quite the range of an IS MLasers (unquirked), but it runs so cool and inflicts so much damage, it is so fun to run.

It may be my favorite Clan ride in my inventory.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 03 April 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

It won't be able to effectively use 9E. The ACH with 6 CSPL is already too hot, and CERSL generate the same amount of heat per laser. 9 would be ludicrous. 4 MG + 4 CSPL (or 5) is likely better.

except that ERSLs also weigh half as much, so you can slap in about 4 more DHS than the ACH, and unlike the ACH the VPR starts with 10 truedubs

Roadkill, on 03 April 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

139 kph tweaked also doesn't seem fast enough for it to be survivable. Hit boxes will be the determinant, as is often the case.

ACH-PRIME

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 April 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

A bit ehh, but... 2 LPLaser sniper? Kind of a smaller version of a common Shadowcat build. Will that fit and not be a blast furnace? I'm not sure, my clan knowledge is a bit limited as mostly an IS guy.

2xLPL is 12 tons. This has 8.5 tons available.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 April 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Thx Bishop, I wasn't sure if it would (and I didn't bother to check :/ ).


I could see running it as a ERSlaser medium honestly. Equip as many of the small buggers as you can and equip a decent TC and a range module to tweak it's range as far as you can get. It couldn't be much different than a Cicada 2A at that point (except it can jump).