1049 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Chuanhao, on 04 April 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

While packs may be too steep a price seemingly, 120 for 4 mechs vs 55 for one, 120 still makes more sense.

Except that you are getting 5 variants, one of them hero. (while the old a la carte gave you only 3 variants - and not a single bonus)

But I agree prices should be adjusted. If they are selling Kodiaks for $20 (and here I think they should have increased the price, for about $40), not so many people will buy the Wasp for the same price.

$15 light, $20 medium, $25 heavy, $30 assault standalone packs would still be a fair price tag (with maybe the Clan mechs $5 more expensive). I think the "collector's" variant is currently off, though. ($5, $8, $12, $15 would be fitting)

Classic heavies for $25 and Kodiak for $40... you lost money here, PGI.

Edited by Odanan, 05 April 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 04 April 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

My only issue with the Mad Cat Mk, II, is the amount of tech swapping or tech inventing PGI would have to do for it, everything but the first and second version of it uses something not in the game currently:

Mad Cat Mk. II-Enhanced

Produced on the Manufacturing Plant DSF-IT1 on Itabaiana. This version uses several Advanced Technology systems to increase its effectiveness on the battlefield. Each arm carries an ER Large Pulse Laser and an ER Medium Pulse Laser, while a pair of LRM-10's provide long range firepower. Four jump jets allow the Mad Cat Mk. II Enhanced to cover 120 meters at a time. The top speed of the 'Mech was reduced to 54 km/h, however, due to the use of twenty-five tons of Hardened Armor. This protection, outweighing some 'Mechs, ensures that the Mad Cat Mk. II-Enhanced can continue to fight long after most of its foes have been destroyed. BV (2.0) = 2,732^[12][13]

Mad Cat Mk. II 2

This version of the Mad Cat Mk. II keeps a single Gauss Rifle, found in the right arm, and two ER Medium Lasers of the standard configuration. The torso LRM systems have been replaced by a quartet of Streak SRM-4s. The left arm houses a massive LB 20-X autocannon. Armor and movement profile remain the same, but to make room for the weapons this variant had to drop one heat sink, leaving it with thirteen. BV(2.0)=2,822^[14]

Mad Cat Mk. II 3

This variant removes the Gauss Rifles, jump jets, and one heat sink of the original and replaces them with a HAG/30 in each arm. The side torsos each mount an LRM-10 and a pair of ER Medium Lasers. A Light Active Probe is mounted in the head, and the remaining tonnage is given over to more armor protection. BV(2.0)=3,168^[15]

Mad Cat Mk. II 4

This variant of the Mad Cat carries two ER Large Lasers in each arm and a pair of LRM-15 launchers. A Light Active Probe identifies hidden units. It retains the 120 meter jump radius of the base model. BV (2.0) = 2,962^[16]

Mad Cat Mk. II 5

This variant carries a Gauss Rifle in the right arm, supported by an Improved Heavy Large Laser and Improved Heavy Medium Laser in the left arm. Six Improved Jump Jets allow it to cover 180 meters at a time. BV (2.0) = 2,491^[17]

Mad Cat Mk. II 6

This version carries an ER PPC in each arm, backed up by a pair of ER Medium Lasers in each side torso. Each arm, leg, and torso location is equipped with a Harjel III repair system. BV (2.0) = 2,663^[18]

If PGI can figure out a decent way to deal with those problem items, especially the HARJEL III (last thing I want to see are mech health packs in MWO), then great, go nuts. I just don't want to see direct substitution of items, as it would make all the versions of it kind of like the Black Knight or Crab, same hard points and layouts, in other words boring.

When the Mad Cat MK II* comes (and I believe it will take like 2 years), I hope it will be in all of it's glory, meaning, Clan Heavy Lasers and stuff (the same for the Nova Cat). Adding it with surrogate weapons would be shameful for a game for tied with the TT until now.

Hold on guys, let's give PGI the time to do the jump and properly add the tech level 3. Until then, there are still plenty of A liners (and some B liners):

Omnimechs:
- Fire Moth (the mech I want to see more next - just make it work, PGI, even if you release it without MASC now)
- Fire Falcon
- Huntsman
- Black Lanner (energy heat quirks would make it very dangerous)
- Linebacker (Dragon-like. Needs quirks to be saved)
- Night Gyr (A liner for sure)
- King Fisher (with a small center torso, it would zombie like a boss)
- Turkina (just give it some good quirks and it would stand toe to toe against the ultimate weapon platforms)

Battlemechs:
- Piranha (too terrifying?)
- Incubus
- Locust IIC
- UrbanMech IIC (trashcan for trashborns)
- Vapor Eagle
- Conjurer
- Shadow Hawk IIC
- Griffin IIC
- Grizzly
- Black Python (great potential!)
- Rifleman IIC
- Stone Rhino
- Bane (monster!!)
- Warhammer IIC
- Marauder IIC

* why do we call it Mad Cat MK II when it is a Clan design? Dang you, MW4.

[Odanan]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 April 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

I know, I know, I know.. I'm still holding on to the hope that they decide that a Clan assault with ECM WOULD sell.

The variant with ECM is as far away of the timeline as the Mad Cat MKII.

You are advertising the Kingfisher for the wrong reasons.

pbiggz, on 04 April 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

David White hellhound is best hellhound.

It's the best Hellhound, but has nothing of the Conjurer. :/

[Odanan]

Gyrok, on 04 April 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

No, it is done by Russ's whimsical fascination with whatever mech they chose. Had they been paying attention, the Night Gyr probably would have sold more than even the KDK pack.

Nothing would sell more than a super iconic and powerful 100 Clan Battlemech for $20.

[Odanan]

pbiggz, on 04 April 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

As I said a million times already despite people apparently taking offense, the Viper is a one trick pony. We didn't need a one trick pony.

Is Cicada and Firestarter one trick ponies? Because Viper will be something like them.

With the right combo of hitboxes, hardpoint locations and (specially) quirks, any mech can be competitive. Any.

[Odanan]

CK16, on 04 April 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Well imo quirks should help only weapons on the stock builds and very clear on this as in like Say Timberwolf prime should be like ER Large laser rage and LRM-20 cool down, not genergy missile, or energy, not even general like LRM or SRM...this would hopefully make building the same builds over and over and over again obsolete really fast.

I agree quirk sould be based on the stock weapons. There is nothing that makes me happier than to see stock-like builds used effectively.

CK16, on 04 April 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Imo I am on team remove all quirks from the game and fix all weapons to be useful with out quirks....Sick of people bitching about this new mech does not have OP quirks as the rest so why get it or complain cause the bought it now it "sucks" cause other mechs with thier power creep of quirks negate all others viable.

Weapons are balanced (mostly). Mechs don't (and never will, without weapon quirks).

[Gas Guzzler]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 05:26 AM, said:

The variant with ECM is as far away of the timeline as the Mad Cat MKII.

You are advertising the Kingfisher for the wrong reasons.

Nah if they release it I'm sure they will release that one, just by swapping the HAG30 for a Gauss. Kind of like the Shadow Cat P.

[Odanan]

Gyrok, on 04 April 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

There will be no 360 twist for it in MWO.

Sure!

Gyrok, on 04 April 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

The lanner will be crap in MWO because they will actually be somewhat close to TT,

It will be closer to the TT, but doesn't mean it will be crap. Put some -20% energy heat generation quirk on that thing and you will see.

Gyrok, on 04 April 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

instead of MW4's fairy tale world where omnimechs can increase/decrease engine speed.

Yes, MW4 is fairy tale BUT in "real life" you can't increase/decrease the engine of IS mechs either. In Battletech, changing ANY battlemech or omnimech engine is like entirely replacing the engine of your car. Doable? Yes. But not easy or cheap.

[Odanan]

CK16, on 04 April 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

Oh come on now we know that its a little better then that, decent pod space, no fixed "junk", can effectively run twin Gauss with back up weaponry (Warhawk or anything besides Dire wolf can't do this), Heck it could be a good twin PCP + twin Gauss a very common meta as well these are well spread out among arms and torso's and good locations....I think we all knows its a decent mech offering a bit for a Clan Assault, only Blood Asp is close but that is an Omni mech sooo...give and take there.

Honestly Idk why I gotta defend it lol,

You need to defend it because the Mad Cat MK II is treated by a few fans as a no-brained ultimate mech. But it's not.
It just a good mech, not the savior of MWO (no mech would, obviously).

CK16, on 04 April 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

Yea I know that sucks up alot of tonnage and pod space there....I wanted to try a twin Gauss twin PPC build on the Warchicken but sadly neeeeope! Who knows, I consider the Mk II and Blood Asp two sides of the same coin BOTH are very good mechs, the Mk.II is a better sniper, mid ranged skirmisher with stock configs usually set up for a steady stream of missiles and GR rounds (in Lore). the Blood Asp can take more a beating and pump more raw alpha so yes more knock out punch. These two are the 2 best options IMO for assaults we get for a long time, all others look fun and could be ok but these 2 along with the Direwolf are the top dogs I feel for Clans.

You could include the Bane on the list.

PS: I actually enjoy my Executioners...

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 04 April 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Well to be honest CK, if the MK II was 85t it would actually be better off, the JJ's would be lighter, the engine would be lighter and the armour would be a tiny bit thinner for max, over all it would be in a better place...

Now for the guy that mentioned the jumping War Hawk from Mech Commander, there is a fantastic line from the Battle Tech CCG, "What do you mean the Masakari jumped?!?"

If we get omnimech heroes (and it looks we will get, because of the Viper pack), the Warhawk hero MUST have jump jets. Diana Pryde used one in Tukayyid.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

why do we call it Mad Cat MK II when it is a Clan design? Dang you, MW4.

There isn't a Clan name for it, due to the name, thewording of the TRO and that it is a Battle Mech, I am inclined to believe that it was never intended for the Clans, that Clan Diamond Shark wanted it to be rejected by the Clans so they could sell it to the IS.

Hell MW4 goes so far as to call it an Omni-mech, showing the writers of the story for that game had no idea what they were doing....

[ScarecrowES]

Metus regem, on 05 April 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

There isn't a Clan name for it, due to the name, thewording of the TRO and that it is a Battle Mech, I am inclined to believe that it was never intended for the Clans, that Clan Diamond Shark wanted it to be rejected by the Clans so they could sell it to the IS.

Hell MW4 goes so far as to call it an Omni-mech, showing the writers of the story for that game had no idea what they were doing....

All the lore for the MkII makes it pretty clear that Diamond Shark was angling for sales to the IS. None of the Clans that remained in Clan space after the end of the Clan Invasion ever bought them. At the time of release the MkII only used tech that would have been obsolete to the Clans but fairly appealing to the Inner Sphere.

The analogy has been... why would you buy an F-15 when you've already got access to an F-22.... unless you're still rocking Me-262s and the F-15 is an actual upgrade for you. The MkII was extremely cheap to produce and was full of parts that could be easily procured.

Diamond Shark was one of few warden Clans left in Clan Space after the invasion. All its biggest allies left for the Sphere. The MkII basically bought them space in the IS when they finally migrated to the Sphere.

In lore, thw MkII is supposed to mark the beginning of the era of cooperation between the Inner Sphere and the Clans.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

It had 2 of the most badass cards in Battletech TCC. (can't find in the internet, so I will have to photograph them myself)

BLanner and some friends (all great omni candidates for MWO):


The 'Lanner was also in MWLL.


How moving the timeline forward will fix CW?

sarna.net under the Black Lanner entry

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 04:05 AM, said:

You could find other examples of terribly ugly TRO mechs that turned into very sexy designs in the hands of proper artists.

and then you have other like the Kintaro or Banshee which even in those hands.... still look terribad. Sometimes a Duck is a Duck. (Mind you, given what he had to work with, Alex did wonders, but still.... no miracle fix)

Lugh, on 05 April 2016 - 04:38 AM, said:

Not necessarily, given that one of the things that makes the Marauder FUN is the ability to use PPCs and NOT be gimped.

Without PPC velocity quirks it'd be underwhelming.

it would just be stuffed with LPLs anyhow, hence the use of the term "meta".

[LastKhan]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

If we get omnimech heroes (and it looks we will get, because of the Viper pack), the Warhawk hero MUST have jump jets. Diana Pryde used one in Tukayyid.

Wanting intensifies. id buy it

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

If we get omnimech heroes (and it looks we will get, because of the Viper pack), the Warhawk hero MUST have jump jets. Diana Pryde used one in Tukayyid.

JJS would be nice. But know what would get me to buy a Warhawk Hero yesterday, no questions asked? A Warhawk with Open ST Omni Pods, not locked with Heat sinks.

And does anyone else really find it annoying that you get stuck with apehanger arms in Omnis even if you mount PPC/ACs...which have no lower arm actuators (aka elbows, for example?)

I know it's not art correct, and that Btech often overlooked or forgot their own rules...but ANY mech without Lower Arm and Hand Actuators could do a "Rifleman" And rotate their arms to fire behind them. MInd you, we can't do that in MWO, but IMO, those mechs shoudl have a secondary arm model with Madcat mkII/Vulture II style omni pods that sit higher to compensate for the loss of yaw.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

If we get omnimech heroes (and it looks we will get, because of the Viper pack), the Warhawk hero MUST have jump jets. Diana Pryde used one in Tukayyid.

From another thread:

Metus regem, on 05 April 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

This is what I could find about a noteable warrior using the Viper:

"Star Captain Toris Fletcher: A ristar among the Hell's Horses, Fletcher is admired by many if the Hell's Horses Elementals due to his reckless devotion to all members of his Binary. Known for resquing three Horse troopers from a burning hanger in the midst of a duel with a Ghost Bear Nova, he refused several suggestions by his commanders to try for command of his Trinary. His Viper is easily recognized by it's purple paint scheme, a concession his Galaxy Commander has allowed him due to his tremendous Codex"


I pulled that from the wording for the entry for the Viper in my Mech Factory app, likely taken from TRO 3050 upgrade.

So, we might see a purple hero Viper?

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

and then you have other like the Kintaro or Banshee which even in those hands.... still look terribad.

You take back your filthy words!
No, Banshee, my darling, he was talking about the Banshee Aerospace Fighter, not about you.

[CK16]

ScarecrowES, on 05 April 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

-snip-

-Correction intended to be sold with in the Inner Sphere not to the Inner Sphere there is a difference (Field Manual Updates Pg. 58-59)

It still would land as a Clan mech for the Clans in the game (Yes both sides used it, but the Direwolf/Diashi was also used by both sides)

Field Manual Updates Random 'Mech Assignment Tables

Spoiler

You can also find plenty of Mk.II's (and TONS of Nova Cats) with in the Force Faction Tables for Combat Operations.

-The Mk.II was not cheap to make still, we are not talking simple IS mechs here, it still used all Clan tech which was not cheap...(Field Manual Updates Pg.59)

Anyway back to topic of the next 3! Russ Confirmed on Twitter the next months will be Clan heavy (as we kinda guessed)

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 05 April 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

You take back your filthy words!
No, Banshee, my darling, he was talking about the Banshee Aerospace Fighter, not about you.

what's that? Oh just a Banshee standing behind a Direwolf.......

[Odanan]

CK16, on 05 April 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

-Correction intended to be sold with in the Inner Sphere not to the Inner Sphere there is a difference (Field Manual Updates Pg. 58-59)

It still would land as a Clan mech for the Clans in the game (Yes both sides used it, but the Direwolf/Diashi was also used by both sides)

Field Manual Updates Random 'Mech Assignment Tables

You can also find plenty of Mk.II's (and TONS of Nova Cats) with in the Force Faction Tables for Combat Operations.

-The Mk.II was not cheap to make still, we are not talking simple IS mechs here, it still used all Clan tech which was not cheap...(Field Manual Updates Pg.59)

So, the Mad Cat MK II was built by Clans, with Clan tech and mostly fielded by Clans. That makes it a 100% Clan mech in my book.

Really thank you for those tables. I will make good use of them.

CK16, on 05 April 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Anyway back to topic of the next 3! Russ Confirmed on Twitter the next months will be Clan heavy (as we kinda guessed)

Black Lanner (or Huntsman), Night Gyr (no question about that one) and Linebacker (Rifleman IIC or Black Python or Grizzly would be even better).

Why Black Lanner? It was the most popular remaining medium in the omnimech polls... (not many people actually know the Huntsman)

Edited by Odanan, 05 April 2016 - 10:27 AM.