1049 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

A: A handful of staple mechs now leaves PLENTY for later, both future and past mechs.
B: If you're settling for mech releases as the only content releases, then you're letting PGI get away with selling you nothing. Making new mechs is relatively easy. Making a PVE campaign, maybe not so much.

B presumes the same people who make mechs make PvE content, game modes, maps, etc. They do not. Further, if they did introduce a PvE portion, it would behoove them to have the variety of mechs available for a given enemy NPC faction within the time slice the campaign takes place in. One does not conflict with the other.

I'd hope that ultimately we would have enough variety of mechs across both Clan and IS that they could enforce faction-based mech selections for our drop decks in CW. That way we'd have a list of "general use" mechs, followed by a restricted pool of specific chassis for a given faction. Steiner mechs that Kurita pilots cannot use. Smoke Jaguar mechs that Jade Falcons cannot use. Etc.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 April 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Thats his prerogative, not mine. He's hardly the first person to not get along with people on the internet, so why he's become such an enemy for you is beyond me.

He may not be the first, but he is the one I see constantly, why do you find it that hard to understand why people find him irritating?

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Not near as much as predicted.

We already have the Humanoid, able to pack ungodly firepower for weight 75 ton Orion IIC. Gyr will have probably, slightly better hitboxes (though if remotely true to lore art, a either a massive CT du to the R2D2 dome hear, or easy to pop STs) and no real reason to suspect heavy quirks.

So it will have guns. And lack the agility and twist capability of a large engine. And no ability to upgrade to the "sweet spot" between a 325 and 350. People have consistently cried the TBR is over engined, but reality is, that massive engine is a huge component of it's actual success, same as the Stormcrow.

Heh, I tend to agree. People shriek about the Timber Wolf having Too Much Engine…sometimes in the same posts they use to also shriek about the Timber Wolf being far more maneuverable and agile than a ‘Mech of its size has any right to be.

The TBR carries enough weaponry to be a threat, and has enough mobility to get those guns where they need to go. 375 or so is on the top end of non-bonkers Big Engine Ratings; anymuch higher and you start paying a silly premium in tonnage for those extra increments, as Mr. Gargles has very generously demonstrated. The TBR isn’t over-engined; it’s just-right engine, as its top-tier status in TT since its introduction has proven.

The Night Gyr, in my eyes, brings a Whale Lite dual Gauslasers armament at 75t, with much lighter lasers and less ammo/heat sinks. It’ll certainly be a wicked gun platform, but I’m not really sure it’s the whole Coming of Ragnarok that Gunbag players figure it will be. Given how much faster the game has gotten since the 60kph Poptart days, going sub-70 in a heavy ‘Mech is going to leave one vulnerable to being left behind or finding oneself in a bad position, on top of not even beginning to have the speed to pursue wounded targets if it has to.

Trying to win a stand-up mantank fight with a Night Gyr will probably go about as well as trying to win said fight with a Dire Whale (excepting certain assault ‘Mechs), but the Gyr will be a lot easier to isolate and eliminate, or to just ignore while you pick on easier targets and get the numbers edge. Suppose we’ll see at some point! It’d certainly have more game impact than the poor Linebacker, though. No matter how much I like faster-than-they-should-be mediums and heavies, the Linebacker really does take the idea just a bit too far.

[pbiggz]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

He may not be the first, but he is the one I see constantly, why do you find it that hard to understand why people find him irritating?

I dont, but he's right about alot of stuff and people say he's wrong just because its him. Iv seen people make identical arguments and get some agreement, but if he makes that same argument, all he gets is hate.

[pbiggz]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Heh, I tend to agree. People shriek about the Timber Wolf having Too Much Engine…sometimes in the same posts they use to also shriek about the Timber Wolf being far more maneuverable and agile than a ‘Mech of its size has any right to be.

The TBR carries enough weaponry to be a threat, and has enough mobility to get those guns where they need to go. 375 or so is on the top end of non-bonkers Big Engine Ratings; anymuch higher and you start paying a silly premium in tonnage for those extra increments, as Mr. Gargles has very generously demonstrated. The TBR isn’t over-engined; it’s just-right engine, as its top-tier status in TT since its introduction has proven.

The Night Gyr, in my eyes, brings a Whale Lite dual Gauslasers armament at 75t, with much lighter lasers and less ammo/heat sinks. It’ll certainly be a wicked gun platform, but I’m not really sure it’s the whole Coming of Ragnarok that Gunbag players figure it will be. Given how much faster the game has gotten since the 60kph Poptart days, going sub-70 in a heavy ‘Mech is going to leave one vulnerable to being left behind or finding oneself in a bad position, on top of not even beginning to have the speed to pursue wounded targets if it has to.

Trying to win a stand-up mantank fight with a Night Gyr will probably go about as well as trying to win said fight with a Dire Whale (excepting certain assault ‘Mechs), but the Gyr will be a lot easier to isolate and eliminate, or to just ignore while you pick on easier targets and get the numbers edge. Suppose we’ll see at some point! It’d certainly have more game impact than the poor Linebacker, though. No matter how much I like faster-than-they-should-be mediums and heavies, the Linebacker really does take the idea just a bit too far.

If you dropped the TBR's engine a few ratings lower, that would free up just enough tonnage to take the TBR's firepower from mean, to scary, with minimal loss to speed. The Night Gyr represents the opposite side of the spectrum. It keeps speed with most IS heavies, going 65-70 kph, but carries absolutely punishing firepower.

Thats kind of why I stopped liking omnimech rules. What was supposed to be the most flexible set of mechs in the game is largely, the least flexible.

[1453 R]

Pbiggz. Just...enough, man. Derek has asked folks to get back on topic. Imperius can fight his own fights. He's had his say. The subject has (once again) been beaten to death and a half.

Do you actually have something constructive and interesting to talk about concerning likely soon-to-come Clan 'Mechs, or are you just here to keep up the pointless sniper fight with Bishop and Khan?

Because seriously. All three a'ya. Enough's enough, ne?

Clearly you do. A'ight then. Moving on, everybody!

Edited by 1453 R, 08 April 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

But we cant have it apparently, because enough people bitched about the timeline that russ backpedaled.

I don't know if that's true. We will probably have it before the Mad Cat Mk. II, as the Mk. II only has what 2 variants with legal tech?

He was a little bit wishy washy with the whole (First variant in timeline vs extra variants in timeline vs in-timeline tech), since the Nova Cat has so many variants with in-timeline tech, I think they would only have to make up/modify one variant to do the reinforcement thing they are doing. Anyway, I see that one being added in game.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Possibly, but i think people will rue it's survivability, compared to the TBR. Reality of a locked 64 kph mech .... meh.

Recall, it has 20 LOCKED DHS; in a small engine. It has free crit space as follows:
H-1
CT-0
RT-1
LT-1
RA-6
LA-4
RL-2
LL-2

So where do you plan to pack all them big guns?

Oops..source listed them under fixed equip.. DHS are not fixed...time to whip out the actual TRo, lol.

[CK16]

As mentioned though the Mk.II and Nova Cat are on the same boat. If one is announced the other should and follow shortly behind. If you are in favor for the Nova Cat you can't say then they still need to wait for the Mk.II and vice versa. If either is announced awesome! But I highly doubt it and if the 2nd heavy is an Omni it is 10 to 1 the Linebacker.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Possibly, but i think people will rue it's survivability, compared to the TBR. Reality of a locked 64 kph mech .... meh.

Recall, it has 20 LOCKED DHS; in a small engine. It has free crit space as follows:
H-1
CT-0
RT-1
LT-1
RA-6
LA-4
RL-2
LL-2

So where do you plan to pack all them big guns?

Oops..source listed them under fixed equip.. DHS are not fixed...time to whip out the actual TRo, lol.

All the builds I listed were possible with the slots available, I did the appropriate theorycrafting on SSW.

[pbiggz]

CK16, on 08 April 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

As mentioned though the Mk.II and Nova Cat are on the same boat. If one is announced the other should and follow shortly behind. If you are in favor for the Nova Cat you can't say then they still need to wait for the Mk.II and vice versa. If either is announced awesome! But I highly doubt it and if the 2nd heavy is an Omni it is 10 to 1 the Linebacker.

IT BETTER NOT BE THE ******* LINEBACKER.

[LastKhan]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 April 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Neat what software is this?

[Pariah Devalis]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

IT BETTER NOT BE THE ******* LINEBACKER.

+1


Crossbow for President.

LastKhan, on 08 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Neat what software is this?

MegaMekLab.

https://sourceforge....cts/megameklab/

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 April 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[1453 R]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 April 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Spreadsheet.

So eight per arm, five per ST, empty CT and empty head. 29 total free slots. That’s…not actually much. Multiple large ballistics and ammo to support them is going to eat a lot of space. I get the distinct feeling this sucker is going to run into critslot issues on a lot of builds people are hoping to do with it.

Odds on how many minutes, post-injection, it’ll take before someone starts a thread carping about the fixed jump jets in the legs and demanding Piranha let them slim down to the Meta Approved single jet so they can get more room for ammo?

P.S.: suck it, metafoo’s! It’s a Jump Turkey ‘Mech, it’s GOING to jump. Deal w/it!

Edited by 1453 R, 08 April 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Possible Linebacker builds:

6 cERMLs
2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs.
4 SRM6 with Artemis
2 cER PPCs
4 cERLLs, 14 DHS

Meh.

Actually there is one situation I could think of in MRBC where this would be useful.

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

So eight per arm, five per ST, empty CT and empty head. 29 total free slots. That’s…not actually much. Multiple large ballistics and ammo to support them is going to eat a lot of space. I get the distinct feeling this sucker is going to run into critslot issues on a lot of builds people are hoping to do with it.

Odds on how many minutes, post-injection, it’ll take before someone starts a thread carping about the fixed jump jets in the legs and demanding Piranha let them slim down to the Meta Approved single jet so they can get more room for ammo?

P.S.: suck it, metafoo’s! It’s a Jump Turkey ‘Mech, it’s GOING to jump. Deal w/it!

Look at my post above in an earlier post, it has slots for all the builds I listed.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 10:06 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

So eight per arm, five per ST, empty CT and empty head. 29 total free slots. That’s…not actually much. Multiple large ballistics and ammo to support them is going to eat a lot of space. I get the distinct feeling this sucker is going to run into critslot issues on a lot of builds people are hoping to do with it.

Odds on how many minutes, post-injection, it’ll take before someone starts a thread carping about the fixed jump jets in the legs and demanding Piranha let them slim down to the Meta Approved single jet so they can get more room for ammo?

P.S.: suck it, metafoo’s! It’s a Jump Turkey ‘Mech, it’s GOING to jump. Deal w/it!

Hey, the thing can fit 6 UAC2 and 8 tons of ammo. I'm cool with it!

Also, can pack double gauss and still have plleeeennnty of room left over for ammo and lasers. Starts 1 ton shy on maximum armor, too, so there's room to weight pad.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

It can do:

3 UAC10S
4 UAC5S
2 Gauss, 4 cERMLs
1 Gauss, 2 cLPL, 3cERMLs
4 LRM20s (I guess...) with artemis and head ERLL and CT TAG (just came up with that one on the fly, don't plan on running it)

Don't worry about the Night Gyr's slots, all of these builds work with appropriate ammo and DHS allocation. The Single Gauss Vomit build only has like 18 DHS I think so that one is going to be hot.

[CK16]

I think all in here agree the Linebacker blows (besides like person, also side note you do realize Wolf was not fond of the Linebacker and rejected it bit because of who commissioned it, Wolf in Exile favored it Wolf did not.)

We all see value in the Night Gyr it won't be bad by any means, Nova cat as well is a favorite among majority here.

Linebacker just fits the stupid Omni slot and has a bit of a following more so then a few others. Sadly I think this mech has to good of a chance unless something changes.

[1453 R]

Suppose that’s sort of the thing. The Night Gyr almost has to use heavy ballistics, or multiple lighter ballistics, to eat its entire allotment of weight without bumping into critspace issues. Nobody’s going to mind that, now, given how sick most folks are of the Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Laser Vomit META, but it definitely cuts into the options a bit. You can’t really do an energy-centric Night Gyr even if you want to.

Admittedly, ‘energy-centric’ is what the Nova Cat will eventually be for, and in the interim the Timber Wolf, Cauldron-Born and Hellbringer can all do the beamslinger job perfectly fine. Suppose I just find it interesting that the Gyr kinda requires ballistics. If this thing had released in the Age of the Toaster Pastry, it probably would’ve ruled the world. As it stands…we’ll have to see if Bigga Shootaz can stand up to the 20+-klick speed advantage everything else is going to have over this sucker.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

My votes for heavies are the Night Gyr, Black Python (cheesiest by far), and Mr Grizzles. I would add the Glass Spider to that, but that sombrero worries me deeply.

Mediums: Vapor Eagle, Huntsman, Grendel

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 April 2016 - 10:17 AM.