1049 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Imperius, on 10 April 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

Let's clarify I pretty much consider all omni mechs mediocre to Battlemechs. I don't like the mechs being good for one/ few meta builds. Hence why I was hoping we could skip these mechs. Everyone who understands the game knows clans are far from OP, and the main reason people jumped to IS in CW was the IS mechs are a tad bit better in most cases, for sure when some out ranged the clan lasers. Clans lack the "custom build" mech roster IS has. Only way to pass that is jumping the timeline that serves no purpose other than give PGI a shaky excuse to sell mediocre mechs.

I absolutely agree with you on one thing for certain: the combination of Clan laser range nerfs and IS energy range buff quirks was unnecessary. If IS mechs get the structure bonuses, why do they also get similar range (short of loading up on heavy, space filling Clan targeting computers), with lower heat per shot, and stupidly fast burn lasers? I feel the opportunity to make things different but equal is still there, but oh my god the tears that would flow would be a veritable tidal wave.

IS mechs should be durable, tanky, rugged but clumsy machines, and nasty at closer ranges. Clan mechs the (generally) faster, harder hitting, but more fragile mechs, and ideal at longer ranges. Terran vs Protoss. Sledgehammer vs Scalpel.

Right now, for example, we're at a point where an all Black Knight IS drop deck is a nightmare to deal with in CW because the tools the Clans have to counter it are extremely situational. An atlas rush deck is currently also difficult to deal with - though once we get the Kodiak that might change.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 April 2016 - 07:07 AM.

[Imperius]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

I absolutely agree with you on one thing for certain: the combination of Clan laser range nerfs and IS energy range buff quirks was unnecessary. If IS mechs get the structure bonuses, why do they also get similar range (short of loading up on heavy, space filling Clan targeting computers), with lower heat per shot, and stupidly fast burn lasers? I feel the opportunity to make things different but equal is still there, but oh my god the tears that would flow would be a veritable tidal wave.

IS mechs should be durable, tanky, rugged but clumsy machines, and nasty at closer ranges. Clan mechs the (generally) faster, harder hitting, but more fragile mechs, and ideal at longer ranges. Terran vs Protoss. Sledgehammer vs Scalpel.

Right now, for example, we're at a point where an all Black Knight IS drop deck is a nightmare to deal with in CW because the tools the Clans have to counter it are extremely situational.

My issue is you can't sharpen the scalpel

Edit: oh and IS ballistics (except gauss) is better in every way.

Edited by Imperius, 10 April 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Imperius, on 10 April 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

My issue is you can't sharpen the scalpel

Eh. I think if we had our range advantage back, that scalpel might be sharp enough.

Back when we had no quirks on either side, when Clans launched, Clan mechs had no issues gutting IS mechs like fish at extreme range. Now that burn duration is increased and IS mechs have structure buffs, they can more easily absorb the hits at those ranges, such that by the time they get into their own optimal range they can trade fairly equally with a Clan mech what with the prior sustained damage.

Edit: yeah, but our Dakka is more fun than their dakka.



Until it jams.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 April 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[Imperius]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Eh. I think if we had our range advantage back, that scalpel might be sharp enough.

Back when we had no quirks on either side, when Clans launched, Clan mechs had no issues gutting IS mechs like fish at extreme range. Now that burn duration is increased and IS mechs have structure buffs, they can more easily absorb the hits at those ranges, such that by the time they get into their own optimal range they can trade fairly equally with a Clan mech what with the prior sustained damage.

Not sure if you missed my analogy or not. My Dire Wolf could be Mad Cat MK II quality if I could change the engine... Speed is life in MWO because the faster you are the better your abilities to spread damage, mess with HSR, and stay with your nascar blob.

[Lucian Nostra]

Imperius, on 10 April 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:

It's not an omni, so if we will just pick any medium I'd go with the best clan medium the Hellhound MW4 version.

Wat? ....wat? Eagle is far better than the hound, huntsman is better than the hound. mw 4 nostalgia blinding you

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Eh. I think if we had our range advantage back, that scalpel might be sharp enough.

Back when we had no quirks on either side, when Clans launched, Clan mechs had no issues gutting IS mechs like fish at extreme range. Now that burn duration is increased and IS mechs have structure buffs, they can more easily absorb the hits at those ranges, such that by the time they get into their own optimal range they can trade fairly equally with a Clan mech what with the prior sustained damage.

Edit: yeah, but our Dakka is more fun than their dakka.



Until it jams.

I made the switch to IS just before quirks, when I made the switch I didn't have much trouble taking out Clan mechs, but I had been piloting Clan mechs for a while and I fought them to my strengths and their weaknesses, I pushed them into a brawl and forced them to over heat.


And yea, I love the hitting power of IS AC's, but I love the feel of Clan UAC's.

[Pariah Devalis]

Lucian Nostra, on 10 April 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Wat? ....wat? Eagle is far better than the hound, huntsman is better than the hound. mw 4 nostalgia blinding you

HH 1: 3E 2M

HH 2-5: Extremely heavy on futuretech. However:

2: 2E 1M
3: 3E
4: 5E 2B 2M
5: 2E 2M

Only the 4 actually looks like a good robot. :\ (Actually, considering those are heavy mediums, it looks absolutely terrifying, honestly.)

Metus regem, on 10 April 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

I made the switch to IS just before quirks, when I made the switch I didn't have much trouble taking out Clan mechs, but I had been piloting Clan mechs for a while and I fought them to my strengths and their weaknesses, I pushed them into a brawl and forced them to over heat.


And yea, I love the hitting power of IS AC's, but I love the feel of Clan UAC's.

That has always been the weakness of Clan tech, even before the quirks. The only reason the IS pilots had as much damned trouble as they did was because they were scared to push in on Clan mechs and force them to ride the red line of heat. I'm not saying C vs IS balance was right, then, but against an aggressive IS team it was an absolutely hard fight to win as a Clan team.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 April 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Imperius]

Lucian Nostra, on 10 April 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Wat? ....wat? Eagle is far better than the hound, huntsman is better than the hound. mw 4 nostalgia blinding you

[Imperius]

High mounted hard points > good chassis layout to spread damage, 17 tons of pod space...

[Pariah Devalis]

Imperius, on 10 April 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

High mounted hard points > good chassis layout to spread damage, 17 tons of pod space...

So one Gauss Rifle in a side torso, three tons of ammo, and 3 ERMLas, with one ton of armor shaved away? Ehh. It has good weapon mounts, for sure. But it can't fit a lot into those.

Edit: The irony is that with 17 tons of room, it is a better brawler, due to hardpoint types and the weight of E and M for Clans. In a knife fight, high mounts don't give any real advantage. You are not using them to peek over a ridge 600 meters from the enemy, after all.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 April 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Imperius]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

So one Gauss Rifle in a side torso, three tons of ammo, and 3 ERMLas, with one ton of armor shaved away? Ehh. It has good weapon mounts, for sure. But it can't fit a lot into those.

Edit: The irony is that with 17 tons of room, it is a better brawler, due to hardpoint types and the weight of E and M for Clans. In a knife fight, high mounts don't give any real advantage.

Ever brawling polar highlands?

[Pariah Devalis]

Imperius, on 10 April 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Ever brawling polar highlands?

UAC10's on cockpit level mounts work well for me. God, damn, I love my UAC10 dakka. XD My Nova does well enough, too, with mplas, though to be fair the S arms mount all the MPlas across the TOP of the hands. Something I wish was the standard priority for the mech's weapon propagation over the other variant arms..

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 April 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

That has always been the weakness of Clan tech, even before the quirks. The only reason the IS pilots had as much damned trouble as they did was because they were scared to push in on Clan mechs and force them to ride the red line of heat. I'm not saying C vs IS balance was right, then, but against an aggressive IS team it was an absolutely hard fight to win as a Clan team.

Yup balance wasn't great then, and there were times I got my *** handed to me getting in on them, but knowing burn duration, Mech limitations, using sheild sides (why most of my IS mechs use standard engines) and map knowledge let me pull out victory, sometimes to ridiculous weight differances. My biggest win under those conditions was using a Shadow Hawk with an AC/10 , SRM's and MLas to kill two Dire Wolves and a Mad Dog on Frozen City, I also crippled a Timber Wolf, letting my team pull out the win in that game. I beat the Dire Wolves by being outside of their maximum pitch and yaw, the Mad Dog by getting right on top of him and the Timby by forcing him to ride the red line, by the time I had gotten to the Timby I was already really beat up, so no surprise I went down to him.

[FerrokenFibrous]

My future Clan 'Mech wishlist:

Aye:
-Night Gyr
-Huntsman
-Vapor Eagle
-Glass Spider (Hey, do not hate on poor Spidey and Rifleman IIC's funny hats! They make them look goofy in a good way, and I like that!)
-Fire Moth (PGI please fix the HSR shenanigans already so that I can have my super fun super fast 20-tonner with goofy gangsta arms)
-Kingfisher (Assuming we get the ECM variant)
-Nova Cat
-Bane (Yo dawg, I heard you like Baneposting, so we made you a ballistic/missile boat called "Bane" so that you can Banepost in the in-game chat and on the forums while you dakka/lurm boat)
-Stone Rhino, Grizzly, Supernova and a few other variant-starved 'Mechs (Assuming PGI is willing to make up entirely new variants for these 'Mechs)
-The other IIC 'Mechs except for the ones based off the Unseen 'Mechs we just recently got or are about to get
-The IIC 'Mechs based off the Unseen we just recently got or are about to get (But only at a later time, let the Spheroids fully enjoy the likes of the Warhammer/Marauder/Rifleman/Phoenix Hawk for a bit more before sharing it with us Clanners)

Meh:
-Black Lanner
-Linebacker
-Phantom
-Pouncer
-Battle Cobra
-Turkina (I am a Jade Falcon fan, but if this thing just ends up going to be a worse Dire Whale, I cannot say I would want to own and pilot one)

Nay:
-Nothing

ABSOLUTELY FREAKING 100% NAY:
-Woodsman (No, seriously, just stop, this is waaay beyond the logical conclusion to "PokeMeching", save this 'Mech for another MW game that hopefully takes place in Clan territory before the invention of the Timber Wolf/Gargoyle/Naga, or alternately, have it included in MWO, but ONLY as an unmoving target at the training grounds for Timber Wolf/Gargoyle pilots to happily shoot at in a "shoot the Woodsman" event or something)

Edited by FerrokenFibrous, 10 April 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I thought he said that in regard to why he decided against a jumbo pack, because the only worthy candidates were a pair each of heavy and medium Omni's.

Which, if I heard correctly (I'd actually have to listen again) could indeed mean those same 4 mechs are the ones in the pipe line.

But since we aren't just referring to a jumbo pack, could also have no bearing on the next 4, other than if they are Omni's it'll be mediums and heavies.

I do think the two are separate issues, but could be wrong. Well certainly see as they play out, I suppose.

[Imperius]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 April 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I thought he said that in regard to why he decided against a jumbo pack, because the only worthy candidates were a pair each of heavy and medium Omni's.

Which, if I heard correctly (I'd actually have to listen again) could indeed mean those same 4 mechs are the ones in the pipe line.

But since we aren't just referring to a jumbo pack, could also have no bearing on the next 4, other than if they are Omni's it'll be mediums and heavies.

I do think the two are separate issues, but could be wrong. Well certainly see as they play out, I suppose.

He couldn't jumbo pack them because which medium is "worth more" than the other vise versa on the heavy. So we get 4 junky omni 1 offs, 3 now because the Viper is one of them, so I'll have to buy 3 more mechs I won't even bother to touch before I might get the Mad Cat MK II... Hence why I was pissed. He basically told me don't bother to play MWO for the next 6-8 months. Why even bring up the damn Mad Cat MK II at the other town halls unless you're going to release it soon (let alone have a two hour discussion). Soon to me is about 3 months, hence why I feel lead on. Whatever it's over with and I have less faith in his words.

Who ever is in charge in mech releases and I hope you're reading this you're messing up...

Edit: 4 more mechs I forgot about that IS mech that was drawn over a year ago (Cyclops I think) woop dee poopin doo

Very accurate:

Edited by Imperius, 10 April 2016 - 08:50 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

So excited for the Night Gyr! It's going to be awesome.

[pbiggz]

WHO'S TALKIN' **** BOUT THE HELLHOUND

[Imperius]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

So excited for the Night Gyr! It's going to be awesome.

Timberwolf > Night Gyr

...that said I'm glad at least one other person is buying it.(Will you get the top pack or go Navid on it and refuse to buy the mech you championed for?)

I'll park it in my under ground lair, on my freaking island, protected by angry salmon with laser beams on thier heads.

Seriously though who else is going to buy it? Because sales are what's important.

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 10 April 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

WHO'S TALKIN' **** BOUT THE HELLHOUND

Do you mean the Wolverine IIC Conjurer (Hellhound), or the MW4 thing that is not considered an official Mech?