1049 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Metus regem, on 17 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Considering that in the same breath, he stated that there were no Assualt class mechs for the pack, I'm going to go with he is talking 2/2 medium/heavy Omni-mechs. I say this, as there are some beastly Assualt class battlemechs for the Clans at this point in time.

Phoenix Hawk IIC, ballistic heavy and missile heavy variants

Warhammer IIC, same great pain bringer as the IS version just 10t heavier with Clan toys!

Marauder IIC, same great IS Mech, just 10t heavier with Clan toys... Also the base variant is a laser vomit death dealer.


So that's three very strong Assualt class battlemechs, and there are more in that pot too, like the Kraken, Stone Rhino and Supernova.

I wouldn't be surprised if we start see in the remaining IICs as we move forward. If we're not jumping timeline for another 1 to 2 years (the amount of time many of us predict before we run out of reasonable mechs and an engine upgrade is complete), IICs are shoe-ins to fill out the Clan roster.

[Pariah Devalis]

ScarecrowES, on 17 April 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we start see in the remaining IICs as we move forward. If we're not jumping timeline for another 1 to 2 years (the amount of time many of us predict before we run out of reasonable mechs and an engine upgrade is complete), IICs are shoe-ins to fill out the Clan roster.

The problem is the vast majority of most of the IIC variants utilize future tech. For example, the Warhammer IIC only has TWO timeline possible variants based on the weapons equipped. Marauder IIC only has one. Phoenix Hawk IIC two variants. Griffin IIC only two variants. Rifleman IIC only two variants. Etc.

I do not expect any of those for a little while, unless PGI is willing to convert each and every one of their futuretech variants into timeline appropriate ones. They are all just loaded to the gills with heavy lasers, ATM, and HAGs. :\

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 April 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[CK16]

Metus regem, on 17 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Considering that in the same breath, he stated that there were no Assualt class mechs for the pack, I'm going to go with he is talking 2/2 medium/heavy Omni-mechs. I say this, as there are some beastly Assualt class battlemechs for the Clans at this point in time.

Phoenix Hawk IIC, ballistic heavy and missile heavy variants

Warhammer IIC, same great pain bringer as the IS version just 10t heavier with Clan toys!

Marauder IIC, same great IS Mech, just 10t heavier with Clan toys... Also the base variant is a laser vomit death dealer.


So that's three very strong Assualt class battlemechs, and there are more in that pot too, like the Kraken, Stone Rhino and Supernova.

The issue is I could see (and I would feel kinda like this) that with JUST releasing the unseen and then adding in the IIC versions of those might seem kinda lazy. I get they are different but still kind of for a few more months let the Spheroids enjoy them for a bit longer. I mean no one thinks it would be kinda odd they just said the Phoenix hawk and then 2 months after that we get the IIC version?

[Metus regem]

With only have 2 variants ready to go, there really shouldn't be an issue for PGI to make (P) variants, they did this rather heavily with the Mauler, where they issued two (P) variants, the MAL-1P and MAL-2P, this was done as there would've only been the MAL-R and DCMS-MX90-D for variants that do not use future tech., so one (P) variant for a lot of the IIC mechs shouldn't be an issue.

CK16, on 17 April 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

The issue is I could see (and I would feel kinda like this) that with JUST releasing the unseen and then adding in the IIC versions of those might seem kinda lazy. I get they are different but still kind of for a few more months let the Spheroids enjoy them for a bit longer. I mean no one thinks it would be kinda odd they just said the Phoenix hawk and then 2 months after that we get the IIC version?

Let the IS players keep them till C-bill release, then announce IIC variants, that still gives a good solid 3-4 months of them being c-bill before the cash only version of the IIC's would arrive, then still a couple of more months before the IIC's would hit c-bills.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wouldn't those assault IICs be blatant power creep? Along with the Bane?

Just curious what people think about those. They have pretty ideal hardpoint layouts..

[ScarecrowES]

Metus regem, on 17 April 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

With only have 2 variants ready to go, there really shouldn't be an issue for PGI to make (P) variants, they did this rather heavily with the Mauler, where they issued two (P) variants, the MAL-1P and MAL-2P, this was done as there would've only been the MAL-R and DCMS-MX90-D for variants that do not use future tech., so one (P) variant for a lot of the IIC mechs shouldn't be an issue.



Let the IS players keep them till C-bill release, then announce IIC variants, that still gives a good solid 3-4 months of them being c-bill before the cash only version of the IIC's would arrive, then still a couple of more months before the IIC's would hit c-bills.

I'm deeply concerned about the pattern of the new mech releases requiring 5 standard variants of a chassis and a hero. There are very few mechs coming up that can support that sort of theme without a lot of variant creation on the part of PGI to pad the roster. Some mechs, like the IICs, can easily be done creating only a single unique P variant, or just modifying the out-of-timeline variants. But to squeeze six total variants out of most chassis without making most of them up will start to get very difficult pretty soon.

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Wouldn't those assault IICs be blatant power creep? Along with the Bane?

Just curious what people think about those. They have pretty ideal hardpoint layouts..

That was the problem with them in TT, the Warhammer IIC and Marauder IIC were pretty much optimized right out of the TRO and they were often just better than the Clan Omni-mechs.

[Shadowomega1]

Well the IICs are not Omni's and the next 3 mechs are states as being Omni's. Now will these IIC great additions yes they would, but I bet after these are done then we will likely see another Clan Mech maybe medium, then maybe 1 Clan 1 IS per month afterward.

[Gas Guzzler]

I could see the case for a Linebacker if it could mount 10-12 SPLs.

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

I could see the case for a Linebacker if it could mount 10-12 SPLs.

It can do 8 with 24xDHS. Would that work?

Maybe 6xMPL + 20xDHS would be better?

2xLPL, 4xERML +16xDHS

2xLPL, 6xERSL +17xDHS

1xUAC/10 (3t ammo), 5xERML + 14xDHS

1xGauss (2t ammo), 4xERML +14xDHS

Just about any missile boat, laser boat, or laser/missile hybrid you can think of. You've got 8 total energy hardpoints to work with, and 6 total missile hardpoints.

4xSRM6+A (6t ammo), 2xERML +14xDHS

4xSRM6+A (6t ammo), 4xERSL +14xDHS

6xSRM4+A (6t ammo) + 14xDHS

3xSSRM6 (3t ammo), 4xERML +16xDHS

and so on.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 17 April 2016 - 03:25 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 17 April 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

It can do 8 with 24DHS. Would that work?

Maybe 6xMPL + 20xDHS would be better?

No, I'm just thinking about the Stormcrow.. you can do 10-11 on a Stormcrow and its a great brawler, if the Linebacker could do that it would be pretty solid at it.

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

No, I'm just thinking about the Stormcrow.. you can do 10-11 on a Stormcrow and its a great brawler, if the Linebacker could do that it would be pretty solid at it.

The most common wub-Crow you see is the 5xMPL variant. You CAN mount a lot of Small-wubs on a Crow, but that puts you very close up and even the good hitboxes on the SCR don't last long at SPL ranges. I ran hybrid back in the day... 3xMPL and 4xSPL. Better damage to heat ratios, but you had to fight a lot closer and that doesn't suit the SCR as well. You want to hit and run so you don't have that 55-tonner armor ripped apart.

That's an advantage the Backer has over the SCR... it's a smaller target but carries 65-tonner armor and structure, as well as that 390XL heat scale. You could afford to tank it out a teensy bit more. You'd expect to live longer under straight up brawling situations.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 17 April 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 17 April 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

The most common wub-Crow you see is the 5xMPL variant. You CAN mount a lot of Small-wubs on a Crow, but that puts you very close up and even the good hitboxes on the SCR don't last long at SPL ranges. I ran hybrid back in the day... 3xMPL and 4xSPL. Better damage to heat ratios, but you had to fight a lot closer and that doesn't suit the SCR as well. You want to hit and run so you don't have that 55-tonner armor ripped apart.

That's an advantage the Backer has over the SCR... it's a smaller target but carries 65-tonner armor and structure, as well as that 390XL heat scale. You could afford to tank it out a teensy bit more. You'd expect to live longer under straight up brawling situations.

In competitive play, if you are planning to brawl, the SPL boating Crow is awesome. It burns through legs so easily. The Nova is also great.

ScarecrowES, on 17 April 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

It can do 8 with 24xDHS. Would that work?

Maybe 6xMPL + 20xDHS would be better?

2xLPL, 4xERML +16xDHS

2xLPL, 6xERSL +17xDHS

1xUAC/10 (3t ammo), 5xERML + 14xDHS

1xGauss (2t ammo), 4xERML +14xDHS

Just about any missile boat, laser boat, or laser/missile hybrid you can think of. You've got 8 total energy hardpoints to work with, and 6 total missile hardpoints.

4xSRM6+A (6t ammo), 2xERML +14xDHS

4xSRM6+A (6t ammo), 4xERSL +14xDHS

6xSRM4+A (6t ammo) + 14xDHS

3xSSRM6 (3t ammo), 4xERML +16xDHS

and so on.

16 DHS isn't nearly enough DHS for 2 cLPL and 4 ERML. Not even close. You need like 23+. You will probably end up just going 2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs and 18 DHS if that is the route you want to go. SRMs and some SPL would probably be pretty decent on the Linebacker though.

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

16 DHS isn't nearly enough DHS for 2 cLPL and 4 ERML. Not even close. You need like 23+. You will probably end up just going 2 cLPL, 2 cERMLs and 18 DHS if that is the route you want to go. SRMs and some SPL would probably be pretty decent on the Linebacker though.

I'm not so sure about that. One of the more popular laser builds on the HBR is 2xLPL and 4xERML. With ECM, the HBR gives you an effective equipment tonnage of 26 tons (23 tons plus 3 locked sinks), to the Linebacker's 22 (18 tons plus 4 locked sinks). The Backer is going to have to run 4 fewer DHS, certainly... but it also gets a much bigger engine, with all the advantages that affords in heat handling and speed.

You're going to suffer a bit in the ability to engage in a drawn-out stand-up fight compared to the same build on the HBR, but it's doable. On the other hand, you're going to be able to poke and strike better with that build on the Backer than on the HBR. And in such a small, fast mech, I don't see why you'd try to fight straight up. You're going to be able to run circles around anything in your own weight class or above, for sure.

But yeah, run cooler with ERSL, or change the ERMLs for SPLs and you'll be running pretty cool, and very effective alphas for a fast striker.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 17 April 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm not so sure about that. One of the more popular laser builds on the HBR is 2xLPL and 4xERML. With ECM, the HBR gives you an effective equipment tonnage of 26 tons (23 tons plus 3 locked sinks), to the Linebacker's 22 (18 tons plus 4 locked sinks). The Backer is going to have to run 4 fewer DHS, certainly... but it also gets a much bigger engine, with all the advantages that affords in heat handling and speed.

You're going to suffer a bit in the ability to engage in a drawn-out stand-up fight compared to the same build on the HBR, but it's doable. On the other hand, you're going to be able to poke and strike better with that build on the Backer than on the HBR. And in such a small, fast mech, I don't see why you'd try to fight straight up. You're going to be able to run circles around anything in your own weight class or above, for sure.

But yeah, run cooler with ERSL, or change the ERMLs for SPLs and you'll be running pretty cool, and very effective alphas for a fast striker.

That build is too hot on a Hellbringer too. I promise you... 16 DHS is NOT enough for the 54 damage laser vomit build. You are better off using agility and 2 cLPL 2 ERMLs, like the Stormcrow.

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

That build is too hot on a Hellbringer too. I promise you... 16 DHS is NOT enough for the 54 damage laser vomit build. You are better off using agility and 2 cLPL 2 ERMLs, like the Stormcrow.

Just stating what's possible. A happy Nova pilot could probably tell you what running at a 1 on the heat scale is like... I feel awkward going under 1.2 myself.

I'd probably stick to splat, sniping, laser boating, or the ballistic/energy and missile/energy hybrids the Backer lets you do. Some of these builds can only be done on this mech. And those torso mounts? If they go with some of the source artwork and mount the weapons to the very top of the mech, this thing will hill-hump like few others. You'll have to expose less of yourself than in the EBJ, and that's pretty awesome.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I've always thought that the Gargoyle and Executioner didn't sell enough, to be worth the work and money they spent on creation. The 4 packs stop making sense, when the assault tier isn't being purchased. The Turkey and Kingfisher might even sell less.

Fire Falcon (good) was a lock, Hunstaman (great) or Viper (unknown) were in, Night Gyr (great) was a lock, but then the Assault slot just isn't good enough with either of those mechs in there,

Next assault will be a IIC mech. Whammer IIC and Marauder IIC are dead givens, flip a coin on which is first.

[Dee Eight]

According to the lore, the hellbringer is the descendant for a warhammer, not the warhammer IIC. IIC mechs are considered inner-sphere refits but not the same way inner sphere designers think of doing a refit to an existing chassis.

[Gas Guzzler]

LT. HARDCASE, on 17 April 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

I've always thought that the Gargoyle and Executioner didn't sell enough, to be worth the work and money they spent on creation. The 4 packs stop making sense, when the assault tier isn't being purchased. The Turkey and Kingfisher might even sell less.

Fire Falcon (good) was a lock, Hunstaman (great) or Viper (unknown) were in, Night Gyr (great) was a lock, but then the Assault slot just isn't good enough with either of those mechs in there,

Next assault will be a IIC mech. Whammer IIC and Marauder IIC are dead givens, flip a coin on which is first.

I doubt those will be next, pretty much all of the extra variants have future-tech. They will pick some legal assaults first.

[FerrokenFibrous]

I still think it is too early to release the IIC versions of the "Macross Unseen". PGI should at least wait until all five (or six, assuming they throw in the Crusader at some point in the future) of them are available for c-bills (or maybe even a few months longer after that) before they start introducing the IIC versions.

Edited by FerrokenFibrous, 17 April 2016 - 07:14 PM.