1049 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

The IICs of the macross unseen are totally different art to the originals. For that matter, there's no "unseen" anymore. Japanese courts decided several years ago that Harmony Gold's "license" is related solely to rebroadcasting of SDF Macross, SDC Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada. They do NOT own the rights to the actual concepts / art work / ideas of the original show.

Edit... aha...found the court case...

"In 2000, Big West and Studio Nue took Tatsunoko Productions to the Tokyo District Court over who had the rights to the first Macross series, due to Harmony Gold's attempt to bar Japanese Macross merchandise in North America the previous year. During production, Big West entered into a partnership with Tatsunoko to assist in the production of the series in a deal where it acquired the license to distribute the show worldwide (i.e., outside Japan), as well as earning some royalties to the merchandise. Tatsunoko then sub-licensed Macross to Harmony Gold USA in 1984. In 2002, the Tokyo District Court ruled that Big West/Studio Nue is the sole owner of the original character and mecha designs for the first series,^[16] while that same court ruled in 2003 that Tatsunoko owned the production rights to the first series."


Ergo... Harmony doesn't own the mecha art/designs of Macross as they couldn't very well own the copyright to something that the company they purchased their license from didn't own it themselves.

Edited by Dee Eight, 17 April 2016 - 08:49 PM.

[FerrokenFibrous]

Dee Eight, on 17 April 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

The IICs of the macross unseen are totally different art to the originals. For that matter, there's no "unseen" anymore. Japanese courts decided several years ago that Harmony Gold's "license" is related solely to rebroadcasting of SDF Macross, SDC Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada. They do NOT own the rights to the actual concepts / art work / ideas of the original show.

Edit... aha...found the court case...

"In 2000, Big West and Studio Nue took Tatsunoko Productions to the Tokyo District Court over who had the rights to the first Macross series, due to Harmony Gold's attempt to bar Japanese Macross merchandise in North America the previous year. During production, Big West entered into a partnership with Tatsunoko to assist in the production of the series in a deal where it acquired the license to distribute the show worldwide (i.e., outside Japan), as well as earning some royalties to the merchandise. Tatsunoko then sub-licensed Macross to Harmony Gold USA in 1984. In 2002, the Tokyo District Court ruled that Big West/Studio Nue is the sole owner of the original character and mecha designs for the first series,^[16] while that same court ruled in 2003 that Tatsunoko owned the production rights to the first series."


Ergo... Harmony doesn't own the mecha art/designs of Macross as they couldn't very well own the copyright to something that the company they purchased their license from didn't own it themselves.

Fearing that they are too similar in artwork to their IS equivalents or still unusable due to copyright issues are not my reasons as to why I do not want the "Macross" IICs yet. And I refer to both said IICs and their original heavy/medium IS equivalents as "Macross Unseen" because it is much easier and quicker than having to type out Marauder/Warhammer/Phoenix Hawk/Archer/etc. all in the same sentence. Even though they are technically no longer "Unseen" (I... suppose I should call them "Macross Reseen" instead).

As for my actual reasoning as to why I think it is still too early to release or include 'Mechs such as the Warhammer and Marauder IIC, let me quote an earlier post by a user that I feel has similar thoughts as me on said IICs:

CK16, on 17 April 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

The issue is I could see (and I would feel kinda like this) that with JUST releasing the unseen and then adding in the IIC versions of those might seem kinda lazy. I get they are different but still kind of for a few more months let the Spheroids enjoy them for a bit longer. I mean no one thinks it would be kinda odd they just said the Phoenix hawk and then 2 months after that we get the IIC version?

Edited by FerrokenFibrous, 17 April 2016 - 09:58 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

FerrokenFibrous, on 17 April 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

Fearing that they are too similar in artwork to their IS equivalents or still unusable due to copyright issues are not my reasons as to why I do not want the "Macross" IICs yet. And I refer to both said IICs and their original heavy/medium IS equivalents as "Macross Unseen" because it is much easier and quicker than having to type out Marauder/Warhammer/Phoenix Hawk/Archer/etc. all in the same sentence. Even though they are technically no longer "Unseen" (I... suppose I should call them "Macross Reseen" instead).

As for my actual reasoning as to why I think it is still too early to release or include 'Mechs such as the Warhammer and Marauder IIC, let me quote an earlier post by a user that I feel has similar thoughts as me on said IICs:

I donno. They share names, but the IIC look very different to the IS models. Different enough that you could easily tell the two apart at a glance. Aside from a similar name, they really are not the same mechs, at all. Not aesthetically, often not tonnage wise, and also very often not even loadout wise. So I struggle to find why, exactly, they should be spaced out intentionally from the IS originals.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 April 2016 - 10:01 PM.

[Dee Eight]

The IIC's they released so far share the same tonnage as the originals, but more than half of all known IIC models are different tonnage to their I.S.cousins.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 April 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

I donno. They share names, but the IIC look very different to the IS models. Different enough that you could easily tell the two apart at a glance. Aside from a similar name, they really are not the same mechs, at all. Not aesthetically, often not tonnage wise, and also very often not even loadout wise. So I struggle to find why, exactly, they should be spaced out intentionally from the IS originals.

Pariah,

The Warhammer 6R and Warhammer IIC are actually a lot alike. The both use PPC'S as primary arm mounted weapons, both have back up lasers (2Mlas+2SLas for WHM-6R vs 5cMPL WHM-IIC) and both have a SRM6 pack, both mechs are 4/6 as well. On top of this the Warhammer IIC has a very similar look to the Warhammer, really you can feel that the Warhammer IIC is the Warhammer done right.

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 18 April 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

Pariah,

The Warhammer 6R and Warhammer IIC are actually a lot alike. The both use PPC'S as primary arm mounted weapons, both have back up lasers (2Mlas+2SLas for WHM-6R vs 5cMPL WHM-IIC) and both have a SRM6 pack, both mechs are 4/6 as well. On top of this the Warhammer IIC has a very similar look to the Warhammer, really you can feel that the Warhammer IIC is the Warhammer done right.

Eh. The Hellbringer is basically the Warhammer for the Clans, anyways. In fact, I'd argue that the Warhammer IIC and Hellbringer are just as related to the IS Warhammer. Entirely different mechs.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 18 April 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Eh. The Hellbringer is basically the Warhammer for the Clans, anyways. In fact, I'd argue that the Warhammer IIC and Hellbringer are just as related to the IS Warhammer. Entirely different mechs.

They absolutely are different mechs, but both are related to the IS version.

The Hellbringer is truly the decedent of the Warhammer, the Warhammer IIC was made to correct the flaws of the original, chief among those flaws is the notoriously weak armour, going up to being an 80 true assault mech, with an increase in fire power, but also gaining nearly 50% (160pts of Standard on the 6R vs 230pts of FF on the IIC, nearly maximum efficient armour) more armour over the standard 6R is a big jump... Funnly enough, if you pull two MPL on the WHM-IIC you could cram a 400XL in it ganing a massive jump in speed and agility for only a small loss in fire power.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 18 April 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

They absolutely are different mechs, but both are related to the IS version.

The Hellbringer is truly the decedent of the Warhammer, the Warhammer IIC was made to correct the flaws of the original, chief among those flaws is the notoriously weak armour, going up to being an 80 true assault mech, with an increase in fire power, but also gaining nearly 50% (160pts of Standard on the 6R vs 230pts of FF on the IIC, nearly maximum efficient armour) more armour over the standard 6R is a big jump... Funnly enough, if you pull two MPL on the WHM-IIC you could cram a 400XL in it ganing a massive jump in speed and agility for only a small loss in fire power.

If you look at the WHM IIC, it was the next obvious step done largely along the same vein, tactically and technologically speaking, in this case, just made into a TRUE Assault Mech.

I look at the Hellbringer in much the same way I look at the Thunderbolt II as the "descendant" of the old Jug, the Thunderbolt of WWII. It's been refined, and improved in every sense, which in modern technology often ends up in getting smaller and faster. And of course, Omni.

The thematic relationships between the four wave 1 Hvy Omnis and the classic unseen are pretty obvious. TBR with it's fusion of MAD and CPLT. Hellbringer and WHM, Summoner and TDR. MDD torsos are pretty obviously Archer taken to an extreme, with "rifleman" arms added. The big disconnect being the bird legs.

[wanderer]

Quote

IIC mechs are considered inner-sphere refits

Actually, no. That would be the (C) models. IICs are entirely new designs under an old name.

Because seriously. The original Phoenix Hawk is 45 tons, the IIC is -80-.

[Scout Derek]

wanderer, on 18 April 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Actually, no. That would be the (C) models. IICs are entirely new designs under an old name.

Because seriously. The original Phoenix Hawk is 45 tons, the IIC is -80-.

Good find. I was going to post about this, but seems like you beat me to it.



Also, thanks for keeping on topic guys, appreciate it!