11 replies to this topic

[qatal]

Hi,

I'm wondering if in MWO there is a upper limit of heat sinks, i.e. above this number any more addition of heatsinks will have no effect.

I'm asking as I have a Raven 3L sniper build, with 3 x ERLL and 1 x ML. And had 4 double heat sinks. but would still over heat and shut down.

So I made some sacrifices on armor and ECM and got another heat sink in there. Now I have 5 double heat sinks in this little guy and even then on maps like River City I over heat and shut down. Recently in a 1 v 1 I had to over ride shutdown and within seconds after my alpha strike my engine got destroyed from over heating.

P.S. I dont always alpha strike, I only use the ML if I'm close enough for it to affect but thats very rare.

Thanks

[Veteran4568]

Trust me, you are not the first person to have problems with heat management. Most Raven 3L builds you will see have 2 ER large lasers not three. If you are firing more than 2 you will see a heat Spike higher than normal if I understand it correctly. So change your fire rate to either cycle them on Chainfire or fire two at a time. A sniping Raven is not meant to brawl it is meant to poke at long range. Try running two ER large lasers put the max engine ECM and fill it with heat sinks. Then just fire both at once or one at a time and your heat management should be fine. But I haven't seen you play and I'm going to guess it's the way you're firing that cause you to overheat. Trust me I overheat all the time in my Mechs. But to answer your question there is no cap on heat sink efficiency they will work 100% of the time no matter what or how many you put in

[SnagaDance]

Please also note that you did not 'have 4 double heatsinks'. A mech needs a minimum of ten heat sinks to be allowed to be deployed. A number of those heatsinks are integral to the engine however. For each full 25 points of engine rating you have a heatsinks build into the engine itself. So a 250 rated engine has 10 heatsinks inside. For each full 25 points above 250 you gain an engine heatsink slot instead. A place you can put a heatsinks that takes up no space but still needs free tonnage.

So, assuming you had at least a 250 engine you were using 14 DHS. Going from 14 to 15 is not as great a jump as going from 4 to 5.

Heat management is a very important skill to make your own, good luck with it!

[Brizna]

Also the, up to 10, heat sinks in the engine are what has been called "truedubs", that is they dissipate 2HEAT each, while any "double" heat sink above ten and /or outside the engine (*) only dissipates 1.4heat.

That is why why adding a single heat sink doesn't offer you a noticeable change, you aren't adding 1 to a total of 4 heat sinks, but 1 to 14, and on top of that the one you are adding isn't a true dub but 1.4 so the change is barely noticeable.

Also I need to correct Veteran4568 who hints at ghost heat, while that notion exists in game and causes extra heat to be produced when going over ghost heat limits for linked weapons fired simultaneously, it is currently sitting at 3 weapons for the group of IS Large Pulse Laser, Large Laser and ER L. Laser, so 3 ER laser don't incur in ghost heat penalty. That said IS ER Large Lasers are hot and naturally 3 are 50% hotter than two.

[Podex]

If I could drag a trailer of heat sinks behind me, I'd do it.

Heat management isn't easy, but you get the hang of it. Also remember that heat sinks do nothing to stop heat generation. They only increase heat dissipation. The more you have, the faster the heat bar will go down. Like other have stated, learn to control your heat by chain firing or manually slowing your fire rate.

[Dee Eight]

Also heat sinks don't work the same as they do in tabletop, because the total heat scale doesn't follow the same rules nor does how weapons and movement generates heat. In tabletop, a single heatsink recovers 1 point of heat every 10 second game turn and a double recovers 2 points in the same time frame. But we have a real time scale game, so its heat per second not heat per 10 seconds. The basic ten heat sinks intergral to the engine space recover heat as 1 per second (or 2 per second with doubles) because 10 heat sinks times 1 heat each divided by 10 seconds. Additional heat sinks of the same type only add a fraction of that for each one you add to the mech. Also whether you've unlocked the cool running basic mech skill or completed the elite skill table for the mech (which then doubles the cool run effect) will also have an impact on the cooling math. With the maximum cool run effect of 15% applied to all the heat sinks, you get 1.15 per second if you only had the basic ten as singles, or 2.3 if doubles.

This would be all fine and good though if weapons also followed the same game turn scale as tabletop, which is 1 shot per 10 seconds... but they don't...in fact most every weapon can fire twice as often or more than in tabletop, which means twice the heat load to deal with. Then there's the fact that the weapons themselves often diverge from tabletop heat numbers. PPCs, Autocannons, missile launchers, gauss and MGs match the figures in tabletop but laser weapons are all over the damn place. In TableTop, Inner sphere weapons a small laser is 1 heat for 3 damage, a medium 3 for 5 damage, large 8 for 8 damage. An ERLL is 12 for 8 damage, a LPL is 10 for 9, a MPL is 4 for 6 and a SPL is 2 for 3. Well in MWO the Small is 2 for 3, the Medium laser is 4 for 5, the large is 7 for 9, the ERLL is 8 for 9, the LPL is 7 for 11, the MPL is 4 for 6 and the SPL is 2 for 4. In other words, the small and medium lasers as you'd see most often on light mechs end up with more heat generated than the large lasers ones do, for less efficient damage curves. And that's just the Inner Sphere versions. The clan ones are even more broken. And none of that take Ghost heat into account.

Edited by Dee Eight, 04 April 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

a bit more information overload for you,

the Double heatsinks built into the engine are more powerful than out of engine heatsinks or heatsinks put in the engine "heatsink slot", for your Raven each heatsink in the engine gives 0.2 points of heat disipation per secons and 2 heat capacity, while out of engine heatsinks give 0.14 and 1.4.

if you are using the stock engine you only have a 210 engine with 8 in engine heatsinks, if that is the case I strongly recommend upgrading to at least a 250 to get the 10 "full power" Double Heat Sinks, also in your Raven 3L I strongly recomend using an XL engine, unfortunately an XL255 will total 4.1 million cbills, you may also want Endo Steel internals and Fero Fibrus Armor.
you will end up with something like this,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3aaa957c9271fb1
unfortunately it will cost you a total of something like 6.5 million cbills to do all the upgrades
that build can fire everything none stop for 47 seconds before overheating whereas the build you were originally running which I am guessing was something like this,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...009a70f7b8e479b
would overheat in 21 seconds, if you have 3 ERLL the 3L only has 3 energy hardpoints so it is impossible to have 3 ERLL and a ML, but 3 ERLL would overheat in less than 10 seconds if you are alpha firing due to "ghost heat", if you chain fire you have 15 seconds.

in a Light Mech you want to fire and move, if you want the 3 ERLL you want to stay as far away from the enemy as possible while staying in weapons range, shoot then move to the next patch of cover, use your speed to dictate engagement range and if you start running hot hide until you cool down.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 04 April 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Rogue Jedi, on 04 April 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

if you are using the stock engine you only have 8 in engine heatsinks, if that is the case I strongly recommend upgrading to at least a 250 to get the 10 "full power" Double Heat Sinks

Russ mentioned friday in the town hall that they're fixing that problem... that mechs with engine sizes under 250 will now get the same FULL rating effect for their first 10 heat sinks even if some are outside the engine, to solve a complaint comparing say Locusts and Jenners, with the same weapon configurations and heat sink numbers, the locusts would over heat and shutdown while jenners would not. This will make two of my centurions and my three kitfoxes happy.

Edited by Dee Eight, 04 April 2016 - 11:17 AM.

[Koniving]

The upper limit for heatsinks has 3 variables.
1) slots. No slots = limit.
2) tonnage. No tons= limit.
3) Heat management "2". At this point any heatsinks you add have no value because overheating is nearly impossible.

Aim for 1.4 or higher on mwo mechlab's heat management stat. 1.52 could run for almost 2 minutes of constantly firing.

[Rogue Jedi]

Dee Eight, on 04 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Russ mentioned friday in the town hall that they're fixing that problem... that mechs with engine sizes under 250 will now get the same FULL rating effect for their first 10 heat sinks even if some are outside the engine, to solve a complaint comparing say Locusts and Jenners, with the same weapon configurations and heat sink numbers, the locusts would over heat and shutdown while jenners would not. This will make two of my centurions and my three kitfoxes happy.

that is only for Mechs which cannot mount a 250 or larger and will take the form of a heat dissipation quirk, that is only to help Mechs like the Locust or Commando

[qatal]

Wow. Thanks a lot guys. I was not expecting this many helpful replies. This definitely answered my question and also some other confusions that I had.

much obliged guys

[ImperialKnight]

add all the heatsinks!