99 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

Tougher, yes, due to raw tonnage alone, then quirks on top of that. Quicker? More responsive, but definitely not faster. The Atlas with a 350 is of comparable speed, the IIC is faster by a negligible amount.

AS7-S. A single Kph doesn't make any difference. Not when the mech responds faster in turns, yawing, and accel/decel.

Quote

I have a difficult time believing the assertion that the Mauler outguns the Highlander IIC. And the Dire Wolf outguns EVERYTHING, it's meant to be the top end of the scale, not something you try to surpass.

The HGN-IIC is woefully outgunned by the Dire, but it's only marginally more maneuverable, although significantly faster.

Quote

Perhaps LaserBoat Gargoyles and Executioners. You'll have to show me a by-the-numbers comparison to convince me that there are "numerous" mechs that both outmaneuver and outgun the thing.

ZEU-6T
AWS-8Q
AWS-9M
BLR-1G
BLR-2C
KGC-0000
HGN-733C
HGN-733
HEAVY METAL
AS7-S
WHK-B
BNC-3M
BLR-3M

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ee1e936ea4121a

Nope, still useless. Faster, better armored, more heat dissipation. Only edge the single sink version has is higher max heat threshhold.

Heat threshold about 30 points higher means the SHS version can keep firing full tilt for 3-6 seconds after the DHS version has shut down. That's at least another pair of lpl blasts or 52 damage and an extra 104 damage on the cold maps. And lets be honest the tiny amount of extra speed still doesn't make the damn thing move or turn fast enough for it to matter. Plus no one aims at the legs of an IIC and the arms don't catch that much fire.

Plus if the SHS version alphas it doesn't instantly over heat and shut down on a hot map... so there is that as well.

[Escef]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 05 April 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

AS7-S. A single Kph doesn't make any difference. Not when the mech responds faster in turns, yawing, and accel/decel.

Um, yeah, hence why I said the Atlas was more responsive and that the Highlander was faster by a negligent amount. I wasn't actually disagreeing with you on this point. I was just clarifying the point, as you said the Atlas was faster, when it isn't, though the difference in speed between the two mechs is not worth considering.

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 05 April 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

The HGN-IIC is woefully outgunned by the Dire, but it's only marginally more maneuverable, although significantly faster.

As I said, damn near everything is outgunned by the Dire. What the Dire can't outgun it can generally out DPS. The biggest rival I've found for it is the King Crab packing PPFLD weapons.

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 05 April 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

ZEU-6T
AWS-8Q
AWS-9M
BLR-1G
BLR-2C
KGC-0000
HGN-733C
HGN-733
HEAVY METAL
AS7-S
WHK-B
BNC-3M
BLR-3M

The King Crab and Atlas can largely pull off the criteria due mobility quirks, but the lack of jump jets does handicap them on some maps (such as Canyon Network and Viridian Bog), and the Atlas's firepower is lower, but with markedly higher sustained DPS. The Highlanders compare well with the Highlander IIC, generally trading a smaller alpha for better sustained DPS, though the Inner Sphere XL engine makes them more fragile. The Warhawk actually fits the bill well, equal firepower and markedly faster.

Everything else you list is faster, but with significantly less firepower and lower sustained DPS. They do not meet the criteria at all.

So far you have presented me with 3 mechs that can outperform it (King Crab, Atlas, Warhawk), 3 that can equal it (the 733, 733C, and Heavy Metal), and I've already preemptively conceded to 2 (Gargoyle and Executioner). You said there were numerous mechs that can both outgun and outmaneuver it. I conceded 2, and you provided me with a list of 13 from which only 3 meet the criteria (and 3 more that come very close).

For reference, we can use this for a Brawler Highlander IIC: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73100b16cb12e9b

Edited by Escef, 05 April 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

For reference, we can use this for a Brawler Highlander IIC: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73100b16cb12e9b

Many mechs outperform that, simply because SSRMs do progressively worse the heavier the target.

You also ignored his Wubshee, which would be better than your Highlander (it would have you on the defensive relatively fast), same with the Wubmaster, both of which are faster and have much better poking ability on top. Which should push that to 7 assaults minus the Mauler and Whale (9) while also keeping in mind there are only 15 different assault chassis.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 April 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[Escef]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 April 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

You also ignored his Wubshee,...

Scarlet listed one. Yes, it's faster. The Highlander IIC significantly outguns it and has better sustained DPS. Same for the Wubmaster Scarlet listed. I also find it very insulting that you accuse me of ignoring them. And I know exactly what a fast assault can do, I've been running my BLR-1G(P) as a 400XL laserboat since open beta, and I've used it to circle strafe larger assaults and put the fear of BattleMasters into them.

On the Streaks, feel free to trade them straight across for 3xASRM6, the alpha is unchanged, sustained DPS goes up slightly, cooling goes down. I use the Streaks because I'm not good at coordinating non-locking missiles that are spread between arms and torso (I keep arm-lock off and prefer to limit my weapon groups to as few as possible).

You also seem to insist upon broadening the criteria. No moving the goal posts for you. The argument was for brawlers that both outgun and outmaneuver the Highlander IIC.

[Appogee]

I wish I could sell you guys mine.

Piloting a Highlander IIC is like driving a Russian tractor through a Olympic Swimming Pool filled with treacle.

[Escef]

Appogee, on 05 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Piloting a Highlander IIC is like driving a Russian tractor through a Olympic Swimming Pool filled with treacle.

I feel much the same about my Dire Wolves (minus the selling part, it's mine! My Precious! It came to me on Clan Launch Day! Gollum, gollum!).

Edited by Escef, 05 April 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[Roadkill]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 April 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Maybe you are right for PUGs, but for coordinated drops you are far from it.

Your argument hinges on people using LRMs in comp matches.

We're talking about LRMs. That pretty much assumes we're talking about Quick Play and PUGS, not CW and/or coordinated drops.

[Felio]

Yosharian, on 05 April 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

If I were to buy them, I would probably run:

IIC Mixed Brawler:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d1b604dbcfb77e
Get into brawl and unleash hell. Twist as much as possible.

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

My Highlander IICs...

HGN-IIC (base model) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73100b16cb12e9b nice and brawly. Due to the torso/arm division of the missile hardpoints on the IICs (combined with the fact that I play with arm-lock off), I prefer lock-on missiles over normal SRMs on the IICs. The SSRM6s cycle kinda a slow and run a bit hot, an interesting variation would replace the Streaks and lasers with ERLLs and LRM5s. Haven't tried it, but it sounds interesting.

Thanks. I can't get the hang of the gauss rifle, so I'm kind of floundering trying to find a gauss-less build that still has some long-range capability and doesn't suck.

Is 3x LRM5 really worth it over equal tonnage of SRMs?

I wish the IIC were not the worst variant, as the + variants almost always are.

[Escef]

Felio, on 05 April 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Is 3x LRM5 really worth it over equal tonnage of SRMs?

Depends upon your playstyle. A couple of my brawler mechs have token LRMs to give me something to do at range that doesn't involve rushing forward and committing to the wrong fight at the wrong time.

[Corrado]

the one i dislike less, is the 2UAC10 3MPL C variant. tried the B with 1UAC20 4SRM6 but the frustrating agility is awful doing the atlas wannabe

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

The Highlander IIC significantly outguns it and has better sustained DPS

No, just no, the Highlander IIC does not outgun the Wubshee, sure you have more overall firepower, but it isn't near as concentrated as the Wubshee outside of maybe ganking a light with SSRMs, and the Wubshee is more reliable if you have solid aim. Sorry, but no. Even swapping the SSRMs to ASRMs doesn't really help you much thanks to terrible convergence (though against anything heavy is still better).

Escef, on 05 April 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

The argument was for brawlers that both outgun and outmaneuver the Highlander IIC.

Fine, I will play by your very specific set of rules.

I'll also throw this into the mix for the Mauler, add to that list: MAL-1R
One meh build: AWS-8R
Another meh build: BLR-1S

Even we aren't counting the Awesome or even Battlemaster, that is still half of the assault class that can out brawl it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 April 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[Corrado]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 April 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

No, just no, the Highlander IIC does not outgun the Wubshee, sure you have more overall firepower, but it isn't near as concentrated as the Wubshee outside of maybe ganking a light with SSRMs, and the Wubshee is more reliable if you have solid aim. Sorry, but no. Even swapping the SSRMs to ASRMs doesn't really help you much thanks to terrible convergence (though against anything heavy is still better).


Fine, I will play by your very specific set of rules.

I'll also throw this into the mix for the Mauler, add to that list: MAL-1R
One meh build: AWS-8R
Another meh build: BLR-1S

Even we aren't counting the Awesome or even Battlemaster, that is still half of the assault class that can out brawl it.

try this MAL-1R

or this MAL-1R

or my actually fav MAL-2P with the insane laser quirks can shoot 3 times for 186 damage, before overheating.

geometry on the awesome is bad for SRMs, while the SRM stalkers do it WAY better. specially the 5SRM6 5SPL one.

Edited by Corrado, 05 April 2016 - 03:40 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! I've been playing with the HGN IIC today and it's kind of what I imagined. Potentially amazing firepower, but relatively fragile due to its lack of quirks and speed.

The C-variant is just capable of some ridiculous amounts of violence though. Never knew 2xUAC10 could be so much fun. It just melts through mechs.

[Revis Volek]

I have dubbed this mech the HGN killer....

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...91fdddb0950ffc0

[Widowmaker1981]

Corrado, on 05 April 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

the one i dislike less, is the 2UAC10 3MPL C variant. tried the B with 1UAC20 4SRM6 but the frustrating agility is awful doing the atlas wannabe

You can really easily swap those 3MPLs for 2 LPLs and have waaay more range.

[Satan n stuff]

DjPush, on 05 April 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

They make great medium to close range fighters also. You just have to play smarter. You can't YOLO into 4 enemy mechs and expect to get anywhere with any mech.

FTFY

[0bsidion]

I picked up the IIC-C and it's not bad. I really like using dual UAC10s on it. That over-under barrel configuration makes it easier to unload some decent pin point damage pretty quickly. It's not quite as flimsy as I expected but there are definitely tankier assaults out there.

For me, comparing the Orion IIC-C and the Highlander IIC-C, I'm getting better results from the Highlander. Maybe that's because I play assaults more. Of course I've played more matches in the Orion, which gave me more opportunities to have bad results, so who knows.

I don't have the other variants yet though, so I can't really speak to the performance of the chassis as a whole, but I can say on paper I don't like the lack of ballistics on the others.

[Revis Volek]

0bsidion, on 06 April 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

I picked up the IIC-C and it's not bad. I really like using dual UAC10s on it. That over-under barrel configuration makes it easier to unload some decent pin point damage pretty quickly. It's not quite as flimsy as I expected but there are definitely tankier assaults out there.

For me, comparing the Orion IIC-C and the Highlander IIC-C, I'm getting better results from the Highlander. Maybe that's because I play assaults more. Of course I've played more matches in the Orion, which gave me more opportunities to have bad results, so who knows.

I don't have the other variants yet though, so I can't really speak to the performance of the chassis as a whole, but I can say on paper I don't like the lack of ballistics on the others.

I ditched that loadout for Gauss, 2 LPL and the dreaded LRMS (one 15 and one 10)!

I needed something to do while waiting for my Gauss to recharge....does surprisingly well in solo. The other one i ran as a brawler, trying out the LBX20 3 Med pulse and 3 SRM6. May drop them to 4's tho...

Edited by Revis Volek, 06 April 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

This thread kinda makes me wanna buy a highlanderIIC now. . .

Partially due to my contrarian nature, plus Ive already got plenty of tier negative zero try hard super meta mechs.