17 replies to this topic

[Chryckan]

The Spider have a reputation of being a bad, non-competitive mech.
Which is a bit unwarranted since the Spider isn't really a bad mech.

Going through the Spider's stats such as armour, hitboxes, speed, agility and so on it is clear that the Spider on a stat for stat basis is the best or at the very least among the top three light mechs in the game.

If this was a racing game or a track and field event the Spider would come in first every single time.

The trouble with the Spider isn't that it is a bad mech. It is that it is unarmed, making it a pointless mech.

Take the Timberwolf which can be argued is one of the best mechs in the game at the moment. If you'd removed all the weapons from it before dropping in a match, it would still be one of the best mechs in the game, it would just be a pointless exercise to do.

Only, the Mist Lynx have variants with as few hardpoints as the Spider but at least that is an omnimech allowing you to "add" more weapons by switching omnipods.

Unfortunately, the Spider is stuck as it is.

Still, it is nice to imagine a Spider with the same number of hardpoints as any other competitive light. Then the Cheeta would see itself dethroned.

[Shadey99]

The Spiders main issue is weapon location, with most of it's guns in the CT. The 5D is the only one with arm mounts and if PGI was smart they would probably add an extra arm hardpoint for energy, giving it the option of 2E RA/2E CT. 4E total hardpoints isn't huge compared to the Firestarter or Wolfhound (though both are also 35 tonners compared to the Spiders 30t), but it would be something. The saddest part about the Spider is that even mechs like the Commando (multiple SRM launchers) and Locust (5 and 6E hardpoints) seem to offer more firepower and both are equally fast (if lacking jjs).

The only other options are an introduction of the Venom which has 2E RT/2E LT and is a 35 ton Spider chasis, which would give options for larger torso weapons if not more weapons in general. Such as a 2ERLL build with the LLs in the shoulder to mimic the sniper build of the ACH.

As it is though 35 tonners make up an abundance of light mechs anyways. Adding another humanoid 35 tonner doesn't seem like such a great idea. Though I would like to seem them slightly size upgrade a Spider and tweak the design a bit..

[Mole]

My Spider 5D does pretty good with its three medium pulse lasers but you're absolutely right. Hardpoint starvation kills the thing. It's a 'mech that cannot fit a higher alpha strike than a pitiful 20 damage and to do that you have to sacrifice a lot of speed, armor, and probably heat efficiency too. The most firepower you can REALISTICALLY hope for out of a Spider is about 18 points of damage, which pretty much simply scratches the paint on anything you hit, making the light 'mechs signature boom and zoom non-functional since if you want to do any real damage to your target you need to stick around for a while. I've had some amazing games in my Spider, a few where I've done over 700 damage, but it still feels like a peashooter in a sea of naval cannons, more so than any other 'mech. I feel like even my lowly Commando 1B has more firepower behind it than my Spider.

[Fang01]

I'd love to see an added hard point or two or even a new variant with at least 4 energy points

[stealthraccoon]

I think each variant needs 4 hardpoints, minimum - each one could have 2 CT mounted energy would be beneficial - maybe give a he 5V an additional RT/LT mounted energy slot at the same height as the CT, similar to the LCT-PB.

[_____]

The 5V is a good case of why the 50% quirks were a good thing, along with the Grid Iron and Dragon 1N.

[Digital_Angel]

I usually do reasonably well when I take my Spiders out.

I absolutely detested the 5K, just didn't click with me. Got its basics done, got it sold; good riddance.

The 5D with an XL255 engine, 8 JJs, ECM, 2MPL and 1 SPL does pretty well for me as a scout/harasser from the edges of the fight. It doesn't do sell well if caught by itself without lots of cover however.

My 5V with a STD250 engine and 6 JJs and 2 MLs in the CT, and max armor everywhere except head and arms zombies like crazy.

Would more Hard Points be nice on Spiders? I guess, more for being able to put weapons in better choices of location than anything else. Honestly the Spider doesn't have the weight to carry much once you put a decent size engine in it, a decent amount of armor and 6+ JJs.

[Radagast the Brown]

The Spider 5K is currently in Tier 2 out of all mechs in the game at metamechs, and I can confirm the "meta" build is effective. I also love it because machine guns and large pulse lasers are my two favorite weapons. However, it will lose a laser fight with a Locust 1V, and I speak from experience. In general I think metamechs does not handle lights well, so take the rankings with salt.

I run my 5D with 2 ML and 1 LPL, 1 JJ, ECM, XL 255 engine. It works pretty well. 21 alpha with decent range.

The 5V is hard. I have a STD270 engine, 2 JJ's in legs, 2 MPL's. Armor on the legs, CT, and head only. A perma zombie. Mostly it is just a joke. I think the 5V could work well if it had a locust 1V's quirks.

I want a spider with 12 energy hard points and 8 JJ's, but the only weapons quirks being for small lasers .

Edited by Radagast the Brown, 06 April 2016 - 11:05 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Shadey99, on 05 April 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

The Spiders main issue is weapon location, with most of it's guns in the CT. The 5D is the only one with arm mounts and if PGI was smart they would probably add an extra arm hardpoint for energy, giving it the option of 2E RA/2E CT. 4E total hardpoints isn't huge compared to the Firestarter or Wolfhound (though both are also 35 tonners compared to the Spiders 30t), but it would be something. The saddest part about the Spider is that even mechs like the Commando (multiple SRM launchers) and Locust (5 and 6E hardpoints) seem to offer more firepower and both are equally fast (if lacking jjs).

Sorry but you are mistaken about the 5D being the only Spider with arm mounted hardpoints;
the 5V is the only Spider without arm hardpoints,
the 5D has 2E in RA,
the 5K has 2B in each arm
the A has 1E and 1B in each arm.

the 5D is slow ^{(compaired to the other Spiders)} and underarmed in exchange for ECM,
the 5V is seriously underarmed in exchange for a crazy number of JJs, it is literaly the most mobile Mech in the game, the few Mechs that are as much as 3 KPH faster do not have Jumpjets and the 5K has the same speed but cannot jump anywhere near as high (I love the 5V)
the 5K is a lethal assualt hunter, often able to down assualt Mechs in 5 seconds thanks to a large Laser weapon + 4 MGs and many peoples instistance of taking 10 or less rear armor, only the FS9-E is better at showing those people the error of their ways.
in my hands the Anazi is worthless.

While I agree the Spider would be better with 1 more gun if it had much more than that it would be realy overpowered, it has better hitboxes and higher speed than the Firestarter as well as an ECM varient, 1-2 more E hardpoint on each varient and I think it would be competitave with the Firestarter as the best combat Light, 3 or more extra hardpoints and I am pretty sure it would outclass the Firestarter and Arctic Cheetah ^{(yes they would still have more firepower but the Spider seriously out classes them in terms of mobility and durability)}

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 06 April 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

What are you talking about? The spider isnt pointless... it has a minimum of 3 points as I can prove below;

Spoiler

[Insufficient Skill]

My 5D and 5K would like a word with you:


Found the match screen. That was 931 DMG in the 5D in the first of those rounds while Pugging in Tier 2.

Edited by Insufficient Skill, 07 April 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[Digital_Angel]

2 words for why the Spider isn't pointless: Canyon Conquest

[Dee Eight]

I am playing Anansi right now as it happens, according to mechlab the firepower is 26.6, it'll do 143.1kph, jumps 52m, 1.65 heat management, 197 points of armor. That's pretty good for the chassis. I named mine Charlotte. I also have my pink p e c k e r (seriously this forum censors some dumb words) champion version, and I named the 5D with the ECM as Peter Porker.

Edited by Dee Eight, 07 April 2016 - 07:56 PM.

[Chryckan]

I love the spider. It is the most fun mech to drive in the entire game.

And yeah you can get great results but your damage score will always been in the low range compared to anything else.
And with the exception of the -5V the hardpoints isn't that bad. I'd say the biggest issue is that you can't put anything worthwhile in them, at least not without sacrificing the things that the spider have going for it such as armour, jumpjets and a big engine to power its crazy speed.

If a mech only have 3-4 tons over for weapons after the essentials but plenty of hardpoints it can get a nasty punch from a gazillion SLs.
And if a mech only have a couple of hardpoints but lots of tonnage left over for weapons it might only carry 2-3 guns but those will be LPLs giving it a nasty punch.

The Spider can do neither since it lack both the hardpoins to carry lots of small guns and the tons to carry big guns.

Going up 1 on 1 versus a clan jenner is so one-sided it's not even funny.

Still, found an interesting build with a LL and a LRM 5 for the Anasi that absolutely kicks butt on the polar map. Kind of sucks on all other maps unfortunately.

[Dee Eight]

One thing to remember with them, is avoid CT mounting a large pulse laser...the spiders bounce too much at speed to make use of the triple-pulsing fire inside the optimal range of the thing (especially the reduced aiming range for torso mounts) compared to standing off at a distance where you can duck out of sight after being able to use an ERLL and put all the damage on target.

[PFC Carsten]

Oh no, please don't!

[Shadey99]

Rogue Jedi, on 06 April 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

Sorry but you are mistaken about the 5D being the only Spider with arm mounted hardpoints;
the 5V is the only Spider without arm hardpoints,
the 5D has 2E in RA,
the 5K has 2B in each arm
the A has 1E and 1B in each arm.

Yes, but really... I was talking about energy hardpoints. The rest of my comment made it pretty clear I was talking about energy hardpoints. Ballistics are to heavy, outside MGs, to really use except in very specialized, and questionable, builds. Only the Anasi has missiles, so that wasn't really an option.

I'm not saying the Spider cannot have good games, but it's not the alpha dog. Their are much better hunter/killer lights out there and some are nearly as agile as the Spiders. That makes the Spider fall back more to recon and harassing roles. The Jenner IIC can one shot most other lights if they can hit (I've done that to a ACH I snuck up on) and the ACH and Firestarter both are durable and hit hard, while being fairly fast. Jenners, Locusts, and Commandos can rival the speed of Spiders even if they can't jump as long as the 5V.

[Tahu5]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spider

Cool website. It' all about the SDR and the variants that were in the tabletop version. 5D and 5K had the same job of killing infantry. I prefer the 5K because of the CT mounted laser and the 4B hard points on the arms. I would say that it is one of the best, if not the best, light mechs in the game because of its diversity. I run an ac2 and an ER Large on my 5k. love every game.

Shady99 I agree with you to some degree when you say that the SDR isn't the alpha dog. It's more meant to be a mouse, to draw attention to itself and have assaults chase it. Another one is sniper. So it all depends on your definition of alpha dog. If you are talking dmg per game I would agree. If you mean that it can't play squirrel, than I disagree. Might not be the best, but it has more mobility (jump jets, speed, AMS, etc.). SDRs can be hunter/killers, put four in the same match and see what happens. You can't make the SDR a mech that doesn't do much because it does a lot. Hope my input helps,

TAHU5

Edited by Tahu5, 20 May 2016 - 07:27 AM.