61 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

That makes even less sense than your belief we'll see the madcat mkII this year.

Bravo.

Huh. You would think at nearly 36k posts you would have something better than a knee jerk reaction in response.

Basically, in words you'd understand, "standard size" is a meaningless expectation when "standard structure" and "standard armor" were thrown out by quirks. They should be looking for a larger margin of error, so mechs that are actually outlandishly sized poorly can receive the attention, and then the money and man hours can continue onto the next thing.

I mean, PGI can literally say "all crabs have '-7% size' as a new balancing quirk" and you would be happier, but they would have changed nothing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 05 April 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Huh. You would think at nearly 36k posts you would have something better than a knee jerk reaction in response.

Basically, in words you'd understand, "standard size" is a meaningless expectation when "standard structure" and "standard armor" were thrown out by quirks. They should be looking for a larger margin of error, so mechs that are actually outlandishly sized poorly can receive the attention, and then the money and man hours can continue onto the next thing.

I mean, PGI can literally say "all crabs have '-7% size' as a new balancing quirk" and you would be happier, but they would have changed nothing.

I generally put exactly as much energy into a response as the post I'm responding to deserves. I'm actually doing charity work to respond to yours at all. You've been here 4 months and already have all the answers. Amazing.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 April 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Revis Volek]

LT. HARDCASE, on 05 April 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

To the bolded, well, yes. We're talking about objective nerfs here. There's no way you can make a mech into a larger target, and not consider it a nerf.

The system may only seem as flawed as the conclusions the devs have drawn from it. I said "flawed system of judgment", not that consulting volumetric scale itself is a flawed practice.

To surmise that mechs need to be resized, based solely on their volumetric scale, is an inherently flawed premise. They need to actually look at the Grasshopper and Crab, maybe even play them, and assess their current scale's gameplay balance. If their current sizes are not unbalanced or unfair, there's absolutely no reason to change them for the worse. That is why I say they are using flawed reasoning. Just going "by the numbers", without considering gameplay balance, is vacuous and shortsighted.

One needs only to ask, "Does this mech need to get worse?" I don't think anyone should look at these two mechs, and answer "yes".

And why are they even wasting time and money on mechs which are currently balanced, in their immediate state? Making the obviously oversized (Kit Fox, Catapult, Nova) smaller, is a completely different matter than what they've decided to do here.

p.s. - 7% may seem small, to you, but look at what 18% did to the Nova.


I'm not even thinking of height here.

18% is more then DOUBLE....so the difference is rather large.


They made a standard, if you dont like it thats your issue bud not anyone elses and not PGI's. Standard MEANS standard, not standard for a FEW mechs and the rest we are going to leave cuz they are good enough or we will leave them alone because they get SPECIAL treatment.

Also where does it say that this is the FINAL touch? PGI found a way to standardize a process that had none before, i would wait to see the finished product until we cry over spilled milk mechs. You are real butt hurt over something that 99% of the community (as far as i can tell) thinks is a good idea. Some mechs will get larger but who is to say PGI WON'T make a special case out of the Grasshopper or other mechs? I have yet to see much of anything along those lines one way or the other aside from Russ stating he didnt want to make it taller. So that to me means it will gain the volume in other ways, if thats translates to the sjy is falling to you then i think you need to get a grip man. It's gonna be fine im sure and if it isnt we can cry about it then.

PGI is notorious for not giving a flying F*&k until long after the mech is played to death (or not) and even then they still just let a lot of mechs lay dead (see the Vindicator). Its the nature of the game and development at this point. Take your lumps and keep playing, or quit either way PGI will do as PGI always does.

Edited by Revis Volek, 05 April 2016 - 07:19 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

I generally put exactly as much energy into a response as the post I'm responding to deserves. I'm actually doing charity work to respond to yours at all. You've been here 4 months and already have all the answers. Amazing.

Nice ad hominem. Frankly, I am merely disappointed.

[MischiefSC]

PGI made my crabs worse.

[Impyrium]

Something like size should not ever, ever, be something kept out of a standard for the sake of balance, for the same reason we don't just go in and add or remove a few tons on 'mechs. That means, for the same reason I want over-sized mechs to come down, I want undersized mechs to go up, and then balance via quirks and such from there.

[Andi Nagasia]

Snowbluff, on 05 April 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Nice ad hominem. Frankly, I am merely disappointed.

Come on Guys back to the Topic!

Volumetric Scaling i think will help a great deal with Mech Balance,
all Mechs of Equal Tonnage will have the same Volume and have Nearly the same Area to shoot,
a Short Chubby 75Tonner will have the same Volume as a Tall Skinny 75Tonner,

Some Mechs May Still Need Structure Quirks but they can be Lowered,
as a 15% smaller CAT may not need as much Internal Structure Buffing anymore,

[Snowbluff]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 April 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Come on Guys back to the Topic!

You know the topic was a joke, right? It's a thread about smol crabs. Actual rescaling wasn't really a problem until someone made me think about for more than 5 seconds.

Quote

Volumetric Scaling i think will help a great deal with Mech Balance,
all Mechs of Equal Tonnage will have the same Volume and have Nearly the same Area to shoot,
a Short Chubby 75Tonner will have the same Volume as a Tall Skinny 75Tonner,

Some Mechs May Still Need Structure Quirks but they can be Lowered,
as a 15% smaller CAT may not need as much Internal Structure Buffing anymore,

Maybe. If they screw it up, structure quirks can help. I agree if they have to do it, they have to do it all at once, because doing it to taste later on could be tricky. Honestly, I'll probably be better off overall if the Timberwolf is as overly large as it feels.

Edited by Snowbluff, 05 April 2016 - 09:28 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Snowbluff, on 05 April 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

You don't understand, your excellency. It's not a very good mech! if it gets bigger I don't know if I can take it! D:

WHAT?!?!?!?!??!?!

"... not a very good mech ..." ?!?!?!?!??!?!

Are you out of your Vulcan mind, Spock?!

The things are freakin' BEASTS.

[NoiseCrypt]

Snowbluff, on 05 April 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

You know the topic was a joke, right? It's a thread about smol crabs. Actual rescaling wasn't really a problem until someone made me think about for more than 5 seconds.

Yea... you need to practice a lot if you want to think for that long and still have the results make sense... you should probably wait a bit and not instantly use the findings from a method so new to you

[kapusta11]

Finally all those OP Crabs I don't see in game will be nerfed. Yay!

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Awww... I like my crabs. They're about as tough as a storm crow atm. If they get bigger... well they'll be about the same probably if the hitboxes don't change.

[Metus regem]

cazidin, on 05 April 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Speaking of mechs that feel like they're scaled right but are getting rescaled anyway... didn't Russ say that they were going to make the Marauder bigger too? (It already has a large rear and I cannot lie. You free/vatborn cannot deny.)

I cannot like this enough for the 'Baby's got back' reference.

[Snowbluff]

NoiseCrypt, on 06 April 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yea... you need to practice a lot if you want to think for that long and still have the results make sense... you should probably wait a bit and not instantly use the findings from a method so new to you

It calls for pointless panic (over something very small and pointless) and even has a D':

Who takes a D': seriously?

[Revis Volek]

Snowbluff, on 06 April 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

Who takes a D': seriously?

The internet and hookers both take THE D seriously...


oh you mean D:, my mistake.

Edited by Revis Volek, 06 April 2016 - 06:33 AM.

[z3a1ot]

First they take away my BJ OP quirks and now they want to increase Crab size. If this is true then...

[Snowbluff]

Revis Volek, on 06 April 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

The internet and hookers both take THE D seriously...


oh you mean D:, my mistake.

Hahhahah XD

[QuantumButler]

Yes because you can't have nice things.

[MerryIguana]

Revis Volek, on 05 April 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

I cant speak on the Grasshopper but yea its tall so we will see how they go about that. Being tall isnt the end of the world, just means hill poking is out of its realm of capabilities with such low hardpoints.

[Tarl Cabot]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 April 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Come on Guys back to the Topic!

Volumetric Scaling i think will help a great deal with Mech Balance,
all Mechs of Equal Tonnage will have the same Volume and have Nearly the same Area to shoot,
a Short Chubby 75Tonner will have the same Volume as a Tall Skinny 75Tonner,

Some Mechs May Still Need Structure Quirks but they can be Lowered,
as a 15% smaller CAT may not need as much Internal Structure Buffing anymore,

It only helps after everything else has been taken into consideration (lemon pepper butter on those crab legs if you would).

First it should have been set for each class and not across the entire line, not were a locust has fifth or a commando has a fourth of the volume of an atlas. Set should have been set it for each class then the designs based around that. IMHO, lights are smaller than they should been, but PGI had said they did it for gameplay reasons, PPD and lag shield but also before double armor/structural, quirks and the removal of knockdown. Lore-wise the bulk of the chassis is taken up by the engine and gyro house with its supporting structures.

Next is the actual final MWO designs. Grasshopper legs appearing to be too long and too skinny. Timberwolf main body being too short, length-wise, being shorter than the 10-ton ligher catapult and ebon jaguar, and the marauder which has the longest body of the four of them.

Then there is the lack of arm articulation to bring up them up to a higher position, either by raising them forward or to the sides for a brief period. After that a review of actual hardpoints. Some mechs need a hardpoint inflation, both Clan and IS but if the hardpoints were to be located in the arms shooting from the crotch zone it would not really do much for them.