22 replies to this topic

[Warspawn]

So I was playing around with my shiny new Shadowhawk package and saw that 25% ballistic cooldown...with 3 ballistic hard points in the left torso. Only mech I've seen with more (although it's gauss-specific) is the Hunchback Grid Iron.

Looking at the SDH-2H(C) that came with my mastery pack, I was debating about relative effectiveness of different builds around a primary weapon(s). What are some of the vets' experience with mounting a Gauss vs. triple AC/2s or dual AC/5s? With the cooldown quirk, the AC/2 fires every half-second (0.54); three of these generating 12 damage in a second with the range and projectile speed of the Gauss, and no annoying (to me) charge time.

Thoughts/opinions? As far as secondary armament...LPLAS or MPLAS+SRMs?

Thanks!!

~War~

[Rogue Jedi]

I would go Gauss, 3 AC2 will have higher DPS but the hard hit is usualy more useful, although 2 AC5 can work, however after putting on enough ammo you would not have tonage for both Jumpjets and a Large class laser
.
as for secondary weapons I would sugest ERLL or ERPPC, although LPL could also work.

I mave played something like this sucessfully, although it was before the first quirkening

[Digital_Angel]

Max range on Gauss wins hands down, although effective range on AC2 is actually slightly higher but drops off faster after effective range.

AC2 vs AC5 is almost the same heat per shot. AC2 has higher heat per sec due to faster refire rate.
AC2 has better range, AC5 has better DPS at less (but still pretty decent) range.

Gauss is a hit hard and then reposition, wait, and shoot again style weapon and the closest thing MWO has to a sniping weapon, especially if you have more than 1 Gauss Rifle.

AC2 is great for long range harassment. It is hard to tell a AC2 vs AC5 shell coming at you on the screen, so will often make enemies back off well even if you aren't actually doing that much damage. Really requires multiple AC2s together to do much damage.

AC5 has the best DPS of the 3, but lower projectile speed and range unless you have quirks or modules changing that. still a good weapon over all at mid range.

Comparing triple AC2 to double AC5, the AC2s will have higher total DPS (and higher heat), but require more face time on target making it harder to spread out incoming damage in return.

[StumbleBee]

A lot of this will depend on how you intend to play.

The trouble with AC/2s is the face time required to actually deliver that damage downrange, and if you're boating them the damage will be spread out. The gauss can be charged before you're exposed and then fired, and all its damage goes to the same location. Because its volatile it's not a great fit with an XL engine in a side torso mount, but it would still be my preference.

I probably wouldn't mix MPLs or SRMs with Gauss, because the ranges are so different. The LPL is a better fit, but you might instead consider a PPC or ERPPC. ACs are better than Gauss at brawling, and so fit better with MPLs and SRMs.

Edited by StumbleBee, 14 April 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[Spheroid]

A single gauss rifle is worthless and the 2H doesn't have hardpoints that synergize well with a gauss rifle. Either run the stock champion build, 3x AC-2 or 2x AC-5 + 1x AC-2.

Also one need not have secondary weapons. Burning through a large magazine of ac ammo will guarantee you large match score, higher perhaps if you had a more balanced build.

[Macksheen]

Really love 2xAC5, 1xAC2. It is surprisingly good for me.

[Tordin]

Nice that you seems to enjoy your SHadow Hawks, pretty underrated mech IMO. I rarely use gauss, but one advice, only use them with xl engines.
Since it dosent matter if your gauss explodes or your side torse. Your dead either way.
If you want to get ballsy, slap on an AC 20 and have a few lasers as backup on the right hand. Works with STD engine, slwoer yes, but survivable to side torso loss and you have either lasers or cannon left.

[Quintus Verus]

I ran this in the last medium challenge last year. It used to be a standard meta build. I still enjoy taking it out for a spin.
The rescale pass on all mechs will help reduce the Shadowhawk's massive size.

SHD-2H

[Warspawn]

Tordin, on 14 April 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Nice that you seems to enjoy your SHadow Hawks, pretty underrated mech IMO. I rarely use gauss, but one advice, only use them with xl engines.
Since it dosent matter if your gauss explodes or your side torse. Your dead either way.
If you want to get ballsy, slap on an AC 20 and have a few lasers as backup on the right hand. Works with STD engine, slwoer yes, but survivable to side torso loss and you have either lasers or cannon left.

I tried the AC/20 but it doesn't fit with the XL like you've said; guess I'll play around with the STD engine to squeeze it in there . I do have a loyalty reward Centurion with it however....hmm.

Edited by Warspawn, 14 April 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[Warspawn]

Another quick question on this chassis-->SRM4+A vs. a pair of SSRM2's. Why would one want an unguided SRM vs. a streak for the same weight and damage potential?

[TercieI]

Warspawn, on 14 April 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Another quick question on this chassis-->SRM4+A vs. a pair of SSRM2's. Why would one want an unguided SRM vs. a streak for the same weight and damage potential?

IS SSRM-2s are horribad. Scatter damage needs to come in huge amounts (think Streak 24 minimum, maybe 18 if you have a rack of SPLs to back it up) to be worth much. Conversely, the IS SRM4 is very strong.

Edited by TercieI, 14 April 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[Tordin]

You ned an STD engine to fit an AC 20, since XL takes up too many slots.
I would recommend a different Shadow Hawk with an AC 20 build, shame to not use 2 or 3 of those ballistic hardpoints.

Still heres one for the SDH 2HC
http://[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3b5d0c8c917ea6[/smurfy]


Gray Ac 20 Death
http://[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9fccd3d5c7b1a5c[/smurfy]

Edited by Tordin, 14 April 2016 - 09:15 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

TercieI, on 14 April 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

IS SSRM-2s are horribad. Scatter damage needs to come in huge amounts (think Streak 24 minimum, maybe 18 if you have a rack of SPLs to back it up) to be worth much. Conversely, the IS SRM4 is very strong.

100 percent this.
All streaks spread damage in the worst way. And spreading the damage of just a couple streak 2s is a waste.

Also, you might want to consider skipping artemis on the SRM4. You arent getting a much tighter pattern for that extra ton

[Dee Eight]

Streaks also can never hit the head, and always hit front armor boxes (even if fired from behind). Regular SRMs hit whichever box is appropriate to where you're facing, and can hit the head box. The only advantage to the clan ones besides larger launchers is the third more range. They shoot slowly though (the cooldown of a SSRM6 is cooldown SIX... SIX... that's more than everything except the C-LRM20.

Back to topic, there are mechs with more than 25% ballistic cooldown, and given the choice between triple AC2 and single gauss in a torso, I'm going AC2s. You can get off seven shots in less time than 1 gauss recycles.

Edited by Dee Eight, 14 April 2016 - 11:21 AM.

[Warspawn]

Dee Eight, on 14 April 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Back to topic, there are mechs with more than 25% ballistic cooldown, and given the choice between triple AC2 and single gauss in a torso, I'm going AC2s. You can get off seven shots in less time than 1 gauss recycles.

That's what i'm seeing here as I try the load-outs. 4 sec recycle with Gauss for one shot v. 24 shots (8x3 during the same time) with a triple AC/2 at 25% cool down reduction at 1/2 sec per shot. And you're not going through that annoying (to me) .75 sec charge for the Gauss before being able to fire.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I would rather use 2x ac5 over 3x ac2 on a shadow hawk due to the large amount of face time required.

Twisting off damage is extremelly important for fragile mechs, especially when their whole armament is in 1 easy to identify location.

If you try and face tank an enemy, most likelly a black knight will appear and take out your shoulder... Or a dire wolf will crest the ridge and give you hell.

At least with ac5s, you can shoot a load, twist and reverse behind cover without loosing too much, where as ac2s, dps matters.

[Luscious Dan]

Since my system doesn't seem to cooperate with hitreg when firing SRMs for some reason, I have some ballistic Shadow Hawks that I rather like. They do well in pug land.

2H I run with AC20 and MPL, 5M I run with dual UAC5 (no backups). Both with STD engines, and as much ammo as I can carry. Approx 3 JJs seems to work well for Shadow Hawks.

[Koniving]

Twin AC/2s supplemented with an AC/5, AC/10 or lbx-10 would be my choice in mwo. This way if you go in with DPS you will have something that includes a punch and enough separation of firing times to disorient and intimidate the foe.

If this was B.T. I'd go 100% with Gauss without question or hesitation.

Given double armor/structure and Shadowhawk's lower survivability compared to Hunchback, lack of peripheral vision and cockpit hitbox, just too much risk going full sniper unless backed with streaks/srms, MGs and lasers.

[Koniving]

Boogie138, on 14 April 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

100 percent this.
All streaks spread damage in the worst way. And spreading the damage of just a couple streak 2s is a waste.

You can work around this very easily. When fired every single streak missile tries to find a separate target with minimal overlap and often overlap is unintentional. Bad spread as they say.

Overcoming is easy. It's in the wording. When fired they each choose a body part that another missile has not. Got 6 missiles at once? 6 targets. 2 missiles? 2 at a time. Thus chainfire. It doesn't put a lot of damage up front but it keeps it pelting relentlessly, making it impossible for enemies to twist and spread damage and shoot back safely between your reloads. A solid anti-meta (meta killer) setup when supplemented with a hard hitter weapon or two.

Even srms are sometimes better chainfired too especially on bad hit detection days and targets.

[Warspawn]

Koniving, on 14 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Given double armor/structure and Shadowhawk's lower survivability compared to Hunchback, lack of peripheral vision and cockpit hitbox, just too much risk going full sniper unless backed with streaks/srms, MGs and lasers.

Just a quick question here...

Why do peeps think the Shadowhawk is less survivable vs. the Hunchie? The SH's vertical move ability makes me grin. Hunchie goes 'ouch' and dies....