55 replies to this topic

[mark v92]

Tarogato, on 07 April 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

I doubt there's anybody who's gone as far as I have without spending a penny on the game. Free mechbays, free Urbie pack, now I'm up to 70 mechs, all Mastered, most are moduled, most are camo'd, own about 20 colours... playing in competitive leagues...

altogether, net worth only about $150 though. =/

Well it might surprise you, i'm also like that and probably because i was a student for the majority of the time that i played mwo.

I spend about roughly the same as you.

Got 90 mechs atm and almost all were free. Only pack i bought was the archer for 20$.
ofc i bought some mc here and there but mostly for mechbays that are on sale or cheap hero's.
exeption was the maddog when it was out for mc.
Never bought premium because i didnt think it was worth the money.
I also bought a couple of colors and some camo's from mc but pretty much all when it was on sale.

I guess im somewere around 160 or slightly above but considering ive played this for 3? years its seems to be good value.


I do think that if you buy mechpacks you dont get enough for the amount of money but if you wait for sales it is okish.

Edited by mark v92, 07 April 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[TorinZ]

Value- well, this is probably the only game that I have consistently played several hours per month since like 2012. So I must find value in shooting off bits and pieces of enemy mechs for my entertainment. As for spending money on the game, I have no issue spending money on this game since I know I am getting my money's worth in hours played.

Do I worry about how much I have spent in mech packs and MC over the years which sometimes I feel might have been excessive? Nah...I remind myself that I am married with daughters and I am by far the cheapest spender in the house.

[sycocys]

Well for me the issue I have is that the value for what I've spent has run out, and there's been no meaningful development of the game to add any additional value and encourage me to purchase anything further.

Just as an example for my view point on a game I play and have spent about as much on - Marvel Heroes (between a few accounts). I got bored with that game after maxing out every character with gear and mastering new content. So I took a break, then came back a couple months later to: a new raid, new mini raid system, new story areas, new daily event area + a half dozen new characters.

So I played for about 4 hours and had a fun time with new game experiences - bought their new release pack the next morning.
---
The reason that game gets my money and not this one? I can drop into that game and actually play the game different ways in modes that are actually different. The truly bad part about it is that I actually enjoy the MW/BT franchise far more than the Marvel one - but only one of these developers actually has the where with all to actually produce a game that's interesting enough to keep bringing people back year after year spending money on their game.

---
Full purchase games blow away F2P/subscription games all day long. You own that game and can still go back and enjoy it 10/15/20+ years from now and it won't cost you a thing. I've got NES games that cost 40-50 bucks back in the day that I still power up and play.

Added bonuses - you can sell your copy down the road if you want.
- no buff timers that cost you money
- the devs actually release a finished game

[Revis Volek]

you dont have to spend a dime, game is free.


So based on that fact alone, its a great value.

[Chuck Jager]

I am a ww2 and star wars lover, and I will spend a lot on games like these to have the full package. MWO has always been just a game, so I usually only buy what works in game (the meta crap I hate so much in the other games). This has really kept my expenses down. I do not feel that $12 a month for premium is bad at all especially for new accounts, and the $20 packs are better than grinding considering that is only $8 more if you plan on buying premium.

Gas to go fishing can easily be $10, and snowboarding is usually $50 if you got equipment. I work in bike shops and 1 good tire is $45-$65 or $20 for a basic replacement. Online games are pretty cheap compared to other hobbies, except for the lack of physical activity can have a toll.

[DaZur]

Obviously value is a personal perception. The tighter a players financial restraint is versus time played the higher the value is. Add to that the variable of time played versus cost and it becomes even more convoluted.

Couple additional variables to consider is whether MWO is the players primary gaming entertainment or do they consider it second or third tier? What is the players level of butt hurt?

Also not mentioned is the addition of any freebies collected from PGI in the form of giveaways...

[TLBFestus]

I guess it really depends on exactly WHAT you value.

If I took my hours played and divided by money spent I will likely have paid pennies an hour. Thinking of it that way, it's a great deal. I can't think of any other form of entertainment (other than bumping uglies with the wife....and I'm sure that's cost me a lot more over the years than I realize), that I can enjoy for that cost.

If I think about what I have physically gotten, like a real shopper, then there's a dichotomy. I have received nothing for my money. I don't own the mechs, they aren't real, I don't own a stand alone game that I can enjoy for years after they shut the servers down. I have literally nothing to show for my money.

Call me cheap, but that's a hurdle for my mindset, something I struggle to overcome. Once a mech is designed and programmed, the upfront costs (less servers) is basically done. If they sell enough of that particular chasis, they break even and everything after that is gravy. Lot's and lot's of gravy. I get it..they release for c-bills down the road.

The consumables, premium time, paint and patterns, just leave a sour taste though. They could sell those for a lot less than they do now, and still make bank via the increase in sales.

Lot's and lots of good suggestions have been made on these forums, with people claiming that they would be opening their wallets if implemented, but never have I seen PGI try any of those suggestions.

Yes, some may be impractical or too challenging to implement, but not all of them. Take a chance PGI.....let's take colors for an example;

Figure out the popular colors...let's say a dozen of them.

Take half of them and make them 25 cents a piece, versus what they sell for now. Give it 3 months, or a year, and see if the volume makes up for the price reduction. Little risk, potentially great rewards.

[CDLord HHGD]

When I stop spending money is when I have decided it is no longer worth it.

Also, it's not FW, its CW as in Community Warfare.

[Revis Volek]

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 07 April 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Also, it's not FW, its CW as in Community Warfare.

No, its is no longer Community Warfare because there is no community playing.

PGI has changed it FACTION WARFARE.

[CDLord HHGD]

Revis Volek, on 07 April 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

No, its is no longer Community Warfare because there is no community playing.

PGI has changed it FACTION WARFARE.

My bad, you are correct. PGi changed it. Sorry!

[Khereg]

TLBFestus, on 07 April 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

If I think about what I have physically gotten, like a real shopper, then there's a dichotomy. I have received nothing for my money. I don't own the mechs, they aren't real, I don't own a stand alone game that I can enjoy for years after they shut the servers down. I have literally nothing to show for my money.

Games walk a fine line between goods and services and this distinction is starting to show up in a variety of things we've historically thought of as "products" but are being redefined as services. Take Windows, for example. Historically, you bought the OS, installed it on your machine, kept the installation media, and you were free to use it (theoretically) forever. Windows 10 is changing that, just like the F2P game model has evolved from more traditional formats.

I'm pretty sure I might be about the last person on earth that still buys music, too.

[SeaLabCaptn]

Revis Volek, on 07 April 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

you dont have to spend a dime, game is free.


So based on that fact alone, its a great value.

I disagree with this statement. I left a F2P game I spent nothing on because it wasn't worth my time. Devs listened to 10% of the community (on twitter vs official game forum no less), forum was poorly moderated and very biased, customer support did anything but, real world currency only items were removed with no compensation, updates started coming once every 1.5 years despite a monthly schedule, game modes and maps removed...

Been here since 2012 and so far this game is worth every cent I've spent, which is none, however I am still here.

[Gyrok]

Khereg, on 07 April 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

This might be getting into dangerous territory, moderator-wise. If it crosses a line, mods, please feel free to kill it and slap me on the wrist, but I'm curious how others perceive the value that MWO delivers (or doesn't deliver) for your entertainment dollar (or loonie, drachma, or ruble as the case may be).

What got me started thinking about this are the "mechbay tours" a number of people go on in FW to get in-game items that are only available for MC. You can get 20 total mechbays most efficiently by reaching rank 10 in each faction and moving on. In my experience, getting to this level requires at least a week or two of pretty intensive FW play. I know it's fun along the way, but it seems like a lot of effort to gain $10 - $20 worth of mechbays for "free". Not worth it to me, but others obviously feel differently.

I did a little noodling and added up all the money I've spent on the game and divided that out by the number of hours I think I've played and came up with a figure of about $0.60/hr, all-in. A penny a minute...

That includes all my MC purchases, mechpacks, etc. Being an old fart, I compared that number to the number of quarters I dropped into Tempest machines back in the 80's. You know, when a quarter was worth $0.75. I probably spent today's equivalent of $5+ per hour on those arcade games.

Other comparisons are spending $50 - $100 on traditional games for maybe 100 -200 hours of play time through a PvE campaign. That works out to $0.25 - $1.00 per hour. pretty comparable to MWO...

From where I sit, I see MWO as a pretty good value. I know others who go really hard core on the idea that F2P means free - no if's, and's, or but's. They've never spent a dime on the game. More power to them, but hey, PGI gotta eat, too, y'know?

So, what's your take? Good value? Total ripoff?

I am around $1/hr over 1000 hours in...

I have played it for a long time...I think the value is not disparate from other entertainment based arenas. Is it the best value in gaming? Probably not...though free to play shows that it is consistently a worse value than a subscription model MMO for people that actually support the game and pay to avoid grind. So...I suppose I see MWO as an average value per dollar for a F2P shooter.

[Bulletsponge0]

Maver0ick, on 07 April 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I am at roughly $1 per hour of actual in game quick play battle (and $500 total), though does not include CW and Mechlabing so roughly $0.5 per hour.

Compared with golf $44 per hour, movie with friends $10 per hour, movie with wife + kids $56 per hour, call girl $400 per hour.

not sure where you golf, but it must be damn expensive. I can get a round in (18 holes) for about $40.... so 4.5 to 5 hours of golf for about $8/hour

[AlphaToaster]

Khereg, on 07 April 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

I completely agree with the larger point, but I've got to call out your math a bit. I've never had an off-the-shelf PvE game I played for more than a year without leaving it for something else. To get even 1,000 hours of play time out of a title like that over the course of a year, you'd have to play it for an average of 20 hours a week.

I not saying you didn't/don't, but I know I've never done that with a PvE... That's why I put up about 200 hours-ish as the max for one of those titles. Some may go up to 500 or more or so for some people, but "thousands"? I'm not seeing it.

Also, those games are few and far between b/c to deliver that value, they need to sell millions of copies to recoup the astronomical development cost. As such a niche product, MWO will never compete in that arena.

And, BTW, I know I throw more money at MWO than many. Another benefit to being an old fart with a checking account not constantly in the red is that I have the luxury to buy my way through some of the grind. I generally basic all my mechs with GXP, for example, and occasionally buy MC to convert MechXP to GXP from my favorite chassis now and again.

But sure, the better comparison for product to product costs would be against other F2P titles. In terms of "value" however, value is however you perceive it. The most common definition I've heard is that Value = Benefit - Cost. "Benefit" in this sense is really the joy you get out of spending your time playing. That's obviously unique to the individual.

I respect your response and I don't feel called out at all. Diablo 3 is a perfect example. Thousands of hours on this game. Not only do I keep going back to it, I feel like every time I try to "quit" they release new changes with a fresh season ladder reset and pooof, right back in the grind. I've probably left Diablo 3 and come back about as many times as I've put down MWO and come back after taking breaks. The thing with Diablo 3 is every few years there's an expansion making me dip into my wallet but it feels like MWO is constantly staring me down with it's hand out, every time I log in.

Farcry 2 was another title that for the time when it came out, I logged about 1200 hours. I was playing it probably 30+ hours a week, 4hrs/night mon-fri, and then I'd loose entire weekends running around that damn jungle. It was like having my own private war torn jungle right on my pc! I got so good at that game, I was doing missions in full stealth mode, out of the zone mission complete without ever being fired on. (IED + silenced mp5 ftw)

I just got The Division a month ago or so, and I'm approaching 200hours logged fast. Got my Darkzone guy up to 56 so far, 2 alts at 30 to test different gear/build combinations, and I left a toon at 6 so I could shop cool weapon skins from the vendor. I'll be at 1000 hours on that game before Thanksgiving. I'm having so much fun I'm thinking of leveling the last guy and just ignore the patterns he could potentially get, just to have another character to run the daily missions with to increase the flood of tokens he's getting.

Gamers gonna' game.

/salute

Edited by AlphaToaster, 07 April 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Khereg]

AlphaToaster, on 07 April 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

I respect your response and I don't feel called out at all. Diablo 3 is a perfect example. Thousands of hours on this game. Not only do I keep going back to it, I feel like every time I try to "quit" they release new changes with a fresh season ladder reset and pooof, right back in the grind.

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. God bless you.

Edited by Khereg, 07 April 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Johnny Z]

sycocys, on 07 April 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well for me the issue I have is that the value for what I've spent has run out, and there's been no meaningful development of the game to add any additional value and encourage me to purchase anything further.

Just as an example for my view point on a game I play and have spent about as much on - Marvel Heroes (between a few accounts). I got bored with that game after maxing out every character with gear and mastering new content. So I took a break, then came back a couple months later to: a new raid, new mini raid system, new story areas, new daily event area + a half dozen new characters.

So I played for about 4 hours and had a fun time with new game experiences - bought their new release pack the next morning.
---
The reason that game gets my money and not this one? I can drop into that game and actually play the game different ways in modes that are actually different. The truly bad part about it is that I actually enjoy the MW/BT franchise far more than the Marvel one - but only one of these developers actually has the where with all to actually produce a game that's interesting enough to keep bringing people back year after year spending money on their game.

---
Full purchase games blow away F2P/subscription games all day long. You own that game and can still go back and enjoy it 10/15/20+ years from now and it won't cost you a thing. I've got NES games that cost 40-50 bucks back in the day that I still power up and play.

Added bonuses - you can sell your copy down the road if you want.
- no buff timers that cost you money
- the devs actually release a finished game

Well if you really want to get right down to it this game has had constant sizable updates nearly every month since launch with 3 major updates, the first being Clan addition with Omni pod function and everything involved. Christmas 2014 the Galaxy map addition and that entire mode with pilot eject and dropships added and a few other things, and coming up this month "Phase 3" the true nature and size of which is still unknown.

The big question is will it be another year and a half before another big update? The answer is no since the last podcast since it was said then that the focus wouldn't be on huge updates but on making smaller additions to the content already in game.

All of this while doing some kind of background engine update.

Its takes many years for a studio to get into full production. Star Citizen is doing it by out sourcing a lot all over the world. CDPR it took 14 years on a single title to get into the big league. Lets hope this studio is getting into full production this year, and by the sounds of it they are.

[oldradagast]

I freely admit I rag on PGI at times, sometimes because I'm in a salty mood, sometimes because it's well-deserved.

I also admit that the game could be more than what it is - or at least better polished - with a relatively small number of changes, such as: better weapon balance, better mech scaling (at least this one is coming), fixing the laughable "skill tree" (Pinpoint, anyone?), making modules something other than "extra money sinks that buff your mech and reduce TTK even further." Also, the painful lack of in-game Lore is very frustrating... heck, we lack even mech descriptions and histories in-game.

That being said, I still enjoy MWO. It is generally fun, the ability to customize your mechs heavily is nice, and there is a decent amount of variety in game play, at least compared to most PvP games which consist either of utter chaos or twitch-reflex gaming which requires skills I lack (getting old sucks.) So, I think MWO is a good game - not a great game - but a game that could be very good with a relatively small amount of effort.

As for money spent, I've put in about $100. The funny part is I'd like to put in more, but PGI gives me little incentive. For example:
- I like Awesomes. I could buy the Awesome hero, but it is a horrible mech in every way of the word, and even rescaling won't fix it's scattered, few hardpoints. I understand the fear of "pay to win," but "pay to lose" is also bad business practice since it makes no money.
- I like Banshees. The hero Banshee is also awful, though not as bad as the Pretty Baby, but still bad
- There were also a few cases in the past where if I could have bought a mech "3 pack" for $20 or so, I would have. Instead, my only options were basically paying $15+ per mech, which was suddenly less enticing

Edited by oldradagast, 07 April 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[Dudeman3k]

lets see. $60 for founders + $40 Pheonix + $30 in 2014 + $35 Resistance = $165.

Hours played: between breaks (out of frustration + deployments) i'd say its about an hour a day. been playing since Aug 2012, so: 365*4-180 = 1280hrs

1280hrs / $165 = $7.75 / 60 (minutes) = .129 ($0.13 an hr)

As far as PGI is conserned, I am worth $7.75 or $0.13 an hour. Thats pretty good if I say so.... but the bigger question is PGI even worth the $7.75?? I'd say no... more like $4.00 or $0.01 an hour, so I over paid. bad value.

I say this becuase the game is still just "meh". I mean, it's like comparing a meal from Chilli's vs Taco bell... MWO is Taco bell by many standards.
-balance is still out of reach for the PGI team
-not all core content has been published YET (its been 4 years.... 4)
-Has no chnace of being an Esport game with geometry and quirks as a bandaid to poor geometry
-maps are still one sided

MWO does however have a dedicated fan base unlike any other becuase of IP alone..... so..... is it worth it? to me, yes. Im a MW/BT kind of guy, but for anyone else, probably not

Edited by Dudeman3k, 07 April 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Things are changing in the video game world as everyone knows. Just look at VR making its first real step this year. That's huge.

But also there is Bethesda that is making an even bigger deal of its DLC and updates nearly stepping into the online game world....

Ubisoft just said its taking a different approach just a few days ago "to take advantage of the new technology available."

CDPR is going for top of the market with Cyberpunk 2077.

Square Enix just showed everyone what money is with their multi cast announcement of FF XV at an Academy Awards location and a 1 of a kind Audi production model as well steel box collectors addition worth quite a bit and then announcing the ultimate steel box collectors edition.. and a lot more. Then the announcement that the remake of FF VII will be in multiple chapter releases, each the size of a full game...

Star Citizen is taking out sourcing to get ahead to entirely new levels and going for the top to. In an admirable team work oriented way not in a negative way.

Mass Effect 4 by Electronic Arts is going to have a meta game not to unlike MechWarrior Onlines meta game in its newest release and will most likely be making a large step into online functionality... Not to mention they will be flooring everyone with amazing visuals, game play, story telling.

A really big year and MechWarrior Online looks really good even with the absolutely ferocious competition. Its big money with games making into the billions these days... Its the one bright spot industry in a lot of stagnant industries.

Edited by Johnny Z, 07 April 2016 - 04:14 PM.