164 replies to this topic

[BattleBunny]

Relaying information is useful and I will never ignore that. Suggestions are also welcome. Maybe a grid to initially group up in.

Somebody trying to take command for no apparant reason that starts barking orders over voip gets instamuted. I'll play group queue if I want to work with a drop commander.

And honestly, some of the people that "assume command" have no idea what they are doing.

Edited by BattleBunny, 08 April 2016 - 02:17 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

PUG life.

I try to coordinate on rare occasions too, but it generally doesn't work. Well, for every time it does, there are several times no one listens.

The best thing I can do is appeal to their desire to head straight at red dorritos. I always carry an UAV so if I see a flank and no one listens, I can pop that up. Once they see red triangle, that normally turns people around.

Overall though, communication in PUGlandia is a crap shoot. I'm glad it is there, but it isn't reliable. That is why I generally try to read the natural flow of the team and adapt. It may be a bad strategy setting us up for a loss, but then again, in PUGlandia, you win some you lose some.

At the end of the day too, your enemy team still has the same struggles your team does (even if it never seems that way).

[Corrado]

there are two ways to pug. one with a mech that relies on team (like a slow assault) and you try to teamwork with the team. the other one is to pug in mechs that can be used great soloing (stormcrows, executioners, cicadas, clan heavies in general...)

[Roughneck Cobra]

Call them thick as pigshite, start listening then

[Lupis Volk]

Sadly many have the "i'll play my way/i play for fun" mentality.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 08 April 2016 - 03:22 AM.

[Lykaon]

Kotzi, on 07 April 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Because solo queue is where casual players are. Some just want to shoot mechs. Try CW or group queue i guess.

All of them? All the time?

Well that doesn't make sense at all because if this were true then these casuals wouldn't make so many demands to make it easier for them to win if they don't care about winning.

We have endless pages of griping to remove all groups from a public queue so these "casuals" wouldn't have to lose to better organized players.

We have even more volumes of complaints over the match maker because they can't win.

We have CW getting the work over as well to further separate the "casuals" from groups because they complained about losing.

It seems to me that we have plenty of non casual "casuals" that like complaining about losing but are not willing to learn the skills needed to win.

It's just easier to pitch a fit and get what they want than to learn that if they want to win they need to cooperate.

With that rant out of the way....

Onto the reply to the actual post.

I find that puggies are loathe to trust. Many do not trust anyone's judgment above their own. A result of this trend is when a drop caller calls for a push the Puggies drag their feet if not outright ignore the order.

What group players have known for years still eludes the average puggie. And that is that timing is just as important as the fundamentals of marksmanship and heat management.

When a drop caller sees an opening,a faultering in the enemy lines or a opertunity to exploit the enemy's poor possition they will call for the push to exploit this.Timing is crucial and with puggies lacking in trust and dragging their feet they are highly unlikely to seize the moment and execute the time sensitive order.

So what I do is if I see my team has at least 50% of the players with unit tags I will call targets and direct some basic strategy or suggest tactics moment to moment. I still avoid hinging my plan on exploiting time sensitive orders though.

With luck maybe someday most of the players in MWo will grasp the simple concept of a bad plan is still better than no plan and start to trust drop callers and actually execute orders in a timely fashion.

one could hope.

[Helene de Montfort]

RavenKnight86, on 07 April 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

I swear the past few nights I have nearly wanted to pull my hair out dropping solo queue. I give commands to the team, try to rally the team, and nothing seems to work. All these pugs just scatter to the wind. Is there a reason for this? Should I just stay in group queue to level my Mechs?

You give commands? Sorry, the HQ didn't inform me you were in command

You give commands? Who decided you were qualified?

You give commands? To me? OK you know what mech i'm in, but do you have any idea of my build and playstyle?

You give commands? using voice chat? Sorry, i can't understand your accent (if you are even speaking in a language i know)

You give commands? using voice chat? Sorry, i disabled it, too many wanabee commanders barking orders and starting insulting if things don't go as they planned...

[Lykaon]

Cathy, on 08 April 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Depends on if you sound like you know what your doing, how you say it, soon as you start complaining people will ignore you.

Have you taken into consideration what your teams weapons are, no lrm boat is going to push so if you bring brawl, and not enough of the others do don't expect people to come with you.

All things to consider.

People that yell about Uav's I will shoot one if I can see it and bare weapons on it, many don't bother because they can't shoot that well.

All things to consider, it might not just be because well PUG's.

Excellent point. An important skill is to speak clearly,confidently and above all professionally. If someone executes an order successfully reinforce this good behavior.If they screw up a free lunch...well best not to say anything.

As for considering team weapon loadouts. An LRM boat should support a push order when given. There is a difference between a push forward command and an order into close melee. If the forward ellements of a company advance they are taking the fight to the enemy. The brawlers are going to close and most deffinatley get direct LOS to targets.

If the LRM boats stay lagging behind several things are not going right.

1) The LRM boats are left vulnerable to skirmishers because they are far from the support of the advancing team.

2) The battle lines are about to get very close allowing for clear LOS to targets and a closer LRM boat will hit targets faster due to not having to lob ordnance further than 400m.

3) Not being on or near the line of battle means there are fewer targets for the enemy to get confused with.It's much easier for the enemy to accidently focus fire when they have a couple of targets to cycle through.It's much harder when there are several targets. The LRM boat should be targetable but not hittable during this phase of a push. Basically move along behind the big mechs like Kingcrabs and Direwolves using them to block for you. Do not tailgate them though/Leave breathing room in the event of a sudden need to reverse.Remember an LRM carrier can lob shots over a front line and this is an excellent means of improving the number of mechs capable of engaging.

Likewise a mech that was designed for the hide and poke game should also advance with the push. Nobody should expect the Gauss sniper to close to knife fight range but,following the push into the close combat allows you to sweep wide and engage flanks of enemy mechs that are engaged in close quarters brawling. If you stayed in the back you would have had a harder time shooting past the brawl.Following into the brawl allows for close fire support from a flank.And of course provides more targets to lessen the incidental focus fire on your team mates.

Honestly most of the pug queue issues is because of "PUGS" and by that a general lack of trust or expectation of mutual support is the issue. A group of players in a coordinated group expect this support and bank on it.Puggies however are not so quick to expect the guy next to them to have their backs,most of the time they expect them to shoot their backs.

[Zink1701]

Don't give complex orders. If you give an order make sure you carry it out. If you say flank left then go left. Hope to the goods that they follow. I find in most cases people do listen. There are exceptions as it is pug

[Foxwalker]

Funny, my experience has often been the opposite. Pugs will often listen more often then in group queue. When I see mixed groups of teams in group queue giving locations and orders is like herding cats. Each group of 2, 3 or 4 will ignore any plan of action in favor of what they already decided to do, usually resulting a predictable loss. Of course, in 10 and 12 man teams this less true.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I don't listen because usually it is the dumbest guy in the match who tries to give orders. Usually he tells the team to split into 2 - 3 groups and go in different directions for some elaborate pincer movement.....

The command I always post in chat is "Stay Together"

Or stop nascaring

[Revis Volek]

kesmai, on 07 April 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why should I listen to you mr. RavenKnight 86.
Although questionable, I might listen to you if your name was hotchick69.

Here is a perfect example...most seem they know more then everyone else and eve when they die they assume it was everyone else fault but their own.

You didn't follow them, you didnt chase after light with them in their Assault, you didnt wait for them when they derperd around in the spawn.

All the reasons, any reason, is a better reason then to try to be cooperative for some reason i have yet to figure out.

Good luck out there among the derps and wanna be try hards!

Edited by Revis Volek, 08 April 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[mogs01gt]

RavenKnight86, on 07 April 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

I swear the past few nights I have nearly wanted to pull my hair out dropping solo queue. I give commands to the team, try to rally the team, and nothing seems to work. All these pugs just scatter to the wind. Is there a reason for this? Should I just stay in group queue to level my Mechs?

Because this game is too focused on damage and kills to gain Cbills. Winning should be the bottom line for gaining Cbills and then damage/kills should be bonuses.

I've seen people act like they helped the team doing good damage but in games like conquest or Dom, damage doesnt matter.

[oldradagast]

PyckenZot, on 08 April 2016 - 12:15 AM, said:

Use VOIP, give clear short pointers and call targets/UAVs. 80% of the time at least some PUGs will follow suit.

What you should NOT do is start to shout commands or worse. It is in our nature to specifically ignore people barking at us telling us what to do. Specifically if they haven't been proven to be worthy of doing so. Not saying that is what is happening in your case, but it is a possibility.

Very true. If somebody starts a match with a random command, "Everyone go left" I have no incentive to listen to him (unless the whole team starts going that way) since there's no reason to follow that order over any other course of action. Sure, if I know the guy and know that he usually wins games when his orders are followed, but that's different.

On the other hand, if somebody in the match states a FACT, like "enemy, c5" or "saw a light near Episilon," I'll act on those statements since there's a reason to do so (unless the guy's lying / trolling, but I can't say I've ever seen bad info given for that reason.)

mogs01gt, on 08 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Because this game is too focused on damage and kills to gain Cbills. Winning should be the bottom line for gaining Cbills and then damage/kills should be bonuses.

I've seen people act like they helped the team doing good damage but in games like conquest or Dom, damage doesnt matter.

While damage is too heavily focused on, I also feel the game focuses TOO much on if your team wins or loses. You can have an awesome game and basically be the only useful player on your team, but if you lose, the most you'll get is cruddy rewards and an = sign for your pilot rating. The game rewards damage on wins too much. It ignores individual performance on losses and pays out very little for any team support that doesn't involve damage.

Edited by oldradagast, 08 April 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Rule #1: It is just a Video Game!

Rule #2: If your pulling your hair out while playing, please refer to Rule #1.

Edited by Almond Brown, 08 April 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[mogs01gt]

oldradagast, on 08 April 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

While damage is too heavily focused on, I also feel the game focuses TOO much on if your team wins or loses. You can have an awesome game and basically be the only useful player on your team, but if you lose, the most you'll get is cruddy rewards and an = sign for your pilot rating. The game rewards damage on wins too much. It ignores individual performance on losses and pays out very little for any team support that doesn't involve damage.

IMO you should only gain Cbills on wins. But that is a bit extreme for most, so I'll cave and say match score but game objectives should count more for match score than kills/damage in objective based game modes.

[Dibujor]

I'm a noob/pug/whateveryouwannacallit and I DO listen. I tend to follow the calls from whoever seem to have any plan at all. No plan at all is losing the match more often than not. My most enjoyed matches (won or lost doesn't matter) have been those where a couple of "veterans" (as in more experienced than me) have been directing through VOIP, read chat doesn't get noticed for obvious reasons, you have enough to do as is controlling damage, heat, reticles and doritos.

That said, I tend to follow suggestions/orders, not screams through voip. There's always the one that yells through voip/chat as if everyone were derps but him/her (funnily enough tends to be one of the first to die).

Though, as stated, this game is almost exclusively focused on damage for advancing. My most enjoyed mech is my Raven-3L with NARC+TAG+SRM4+2ML. I enjoy getting enemy attention as a light, scouting, marking targets and easing big boys life... so playing in solo queue you can imagine why I only have four mechs in my stable half frankenbuilt. It takes a loooong time to get some meaningfull CBills to buy anything.

So while I'm sure there's more new people like me out there truth is the majority of the new players are probably younger or don't have the time or desire to do anything more that what the game puts in front of them, that is shoot moar!

[Triordinant]

RavenKnight86, on 07 April 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

I swear the past few nights I have nearly wanted to pull my hair out dropping solo queue. I give commands to the team, try to rally the team, and nothing seems to work. All these pugs just scatter to the wind. Is there a reason for this? Should I just stay in group queue to level my Mechs?

In a fight between 2 teams of disorganized PUGs even a small advantage can spell the difference between victory and defeat so it's good that you're trying to lead advise them. Calling out threats like a lance of enemy lights coming in from the rear usually gets a good response, but for the most part PUGs get too focused on what they're currently doing to listen to you. What I find generally works is laying out an uncomplicated plan BEFORE the match starts (during the countdown).

For example, if I drop in a Skirmish match in Tourmaline I'll type out "link up with the assaults" and most of the time they do because you have their undivided attention and the only "distraction" is the match start countdown. If we spawn on the southern side of Crimson Strait and you say "push right" before the match starts they usually do.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Sadly a lot of solo players aren't team players. Though I do solo drop, I prefer to drop with 2-3 other members of my unit as I know they at least, won't leave me alone to die. We either drop as a Lance, or split into 2 teams of 2. I do know what people mean by many pugs running off on their own, often in heavies or assaults with the Mindset "I'm in a big mech, I'm gonna win!" only to be the first to die. When fast lights do it it's worse because instead of falling back to the rest of the unit, they try to circle strafe things instead of waiting until they have backup and die early.

[Death Proof]

There are a variety reasons, but the the most common one is that solo queue is where casual players go to have fun. They are not overly concerned with winning, they just want to get some kills if they can and move on to the next match.

Also, while PSR and tiers should (in theory) give players an idea of the general skill bracket they are in, the way match maker builds matches you can not trust that the person giving out orders is qualified to do so because of the wide variance of different skill levels allowed into the match. It would be helpful if drop commanders got XP for calling drops and a badge of some kind that let other players know that they are experienced drop callers.