111 replies to this topic

[PirateLincoln]

In a couple of decades, when we're playing MWO through a neural-link, I will have SO MUCH FUN littering the field with broken Blakists.

[Evinthal]

shadowhawk102, on 18 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Well then, I will do it a bit different then.

It was a let down in my opinion. Good for you that you enjoy it, but for myself and all the people I know who play the game, it was a waste.

Thank you for that, and apology accepted.

[Biomatter]

I'd be more appreciative of WoB's technological achievements if they weren't machine-worshipping religious nuts. I can't stand the Adeptus Mechanicus in WH40k and I don't like it here either. Anyone who prays to a machine is just silly!

[Exilyth]

Excuse me, what is this shism you're speaking about? The only people in robes I know are members of comstar.


(OOT: While the white robed mystics of the word might be a valid choice for some, they follow the path of [REDACTED].
Not only are their teachings [REDACTED], they also [REDACTED]! )

[Arctic Fox]

Biomatter, on 18 July 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'd be more appreciative of WoB's technological achievements if they weren't machine-worshipping religious nuts. I can't stand the Adeptus Mechanicus in WH40k and I don't like it here either. Anyone who prays to a machine is just silly!

The Word of Blake don't actually worship machines, despite popular belief both in-universe and out.

[Oshay]

The thing that eternally amuses me is that people are willing to forgive ComStar for many things, completely ignoring the fact that everybody who was in the Word of Blake was originally ComStar. ComStar was the NutJob Depository prior to 3052. Myndo Waterly would have fit right into the Word of Blake, and Julian Tiepolo (who engineered the 4th Succession War, but ****** up by failing to take into account that Hanse Davion was far more clever than he was) was build in the mould from which The Master was coined. Archplotters and manipulators extraordinaire.

Before 3052, ComStar /is/ the Word of Blake, warts and all. The difference is that, after 3052, the WoB itself doesn't bother to hide it's agenda or pretend that they're nice guys. You just get the pure, undistilled Word.

[Oshay]

Evinthal, on 18 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Thank you for this. At least someone gets it. See I didn't like the Word of Blake at all when I first heard about them, but at least I gave it a shot and decided to look deeper into it. Hell if it wasn't for the MechWarrior clix game done by WizKids I probably wouldn't have gotten back into Battletech, and I know a lot of people who were the same, and even how many new people it brought into the game.

I'll tell you the truth. I have loved the Word of Blake ever since they nuked Outreach. And the reason for that is because I HATE WOLF'S DRAGOONS.

I loathe them with an utter passion. They are the ultimate concentration of munchkinism in one place. "Lol, we are has pure ClanTech but fights like Inner Sphere and we is 5 regiments even though we is mercs. Also, uberspies. Also, Warships, even tho we is mercenaries."

And none of the Inner Sphere leaders ever got an inkling, even though five regiments of guys showing up from nowhere way back in the 3000s with five regiments of brand new shiny mechs was a horrible upset in the balance of power at the time.

I've hated Wolf's Dragoons ever since Stackpole's Blood of Kerensky Trilogy.

But how can you deal with a unit so large that it's practically a small army on it's own? Send Wayne Waco and his crazies after it. Then Nuke it from Orbit. And then, for good measure, nuke everything else from orbit.

I would've sworn eternal love to any unit that nuked Wolf's Dragoons. The fact that I already liked ComStar to begin with was simply the icing on the cake.

[Seabear]

Kinda jumping the gun a bit there!

[UncleChandy]

I'll join WoB for two reasons - if I want to leave MWO and go out with a bang (choose your pun), or else if we actually get to Alt. universe a Wobbies vs Clanners showdown, full MD/Celestials/etc

[Errodien]

Praise Blake!

[FireNova]

Oshay, on 18 July 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

The thing that eternally amuses me is that people are willing to forgive ComStar for many things, completely ignoring the fact that everybody who was in the Word of Blake was originally ComStar. ComStar was the NutJob Depository prior to 3052. Myndo Waterly would have fit right into the Word of Blake, and Julian Tiepolo (who engineered the 4th Succession War, but ****** up by failing to take into account that Hanse Davion was far more clever than he was) was build in the mould from which The Master was coined. Archplotters and manipulators extraordinaire.

Before 3052, ComStar /is/ the Word of Blake, warts and all. The difference is that, after 3052, the WoB itself doesn't bother to hide it's agenda or pretend that they're nice guys. You just get the pure, undistilled Word.

I too find it amazing Oshay. ComStar/WoB is truly like the liberal media of today.....deceitful, lying and manipulative. Course most people nowadays are just so unaware (aka stupid) of things like this that they blindly accept what is said without so much as questioning or even having the basic human instinct/intellect of common sense.....

Of course when the Clans invaded, the media juggernaut (ComStar/WoB) found a perfect way to use its Successor State puppets as a means to make sure that the Clans would not succeed in removing them (Bulldog/Serpent) so that they could continue their murderous, vile, control over the whole of the Inner Sphere. What better way of maintaining control by broadcasting the whole "OOOHHHHHHH THE EVIL CLANS MUST BE UNITED AGAINST" propaganda BS (and before the Clan Invasion prolonging the Succession Wars by pitting one Great House/Successor State against another) I still cannot believe at how many Smoke Jaguar haters there are on these forums when compared to the bad things they did indeed do (conventional Warship bombardment of Turtle Bay, conventional suppression of a revolt on Londerholm).....ComStar/WoB is a gazillion times worse: Media control, assasinations, terrorist attacks (ComStar/WoB), WMD terrorist attacks (WoB), deliberate withholding of lostech from the other Successor States (medical technology, engineering, etc)...yeah....you get the idea.....(...and to think that ComStar/WoB wants to deliberately bring the whole of humanity down in order to have a reason to "intervene" to save it and declare themselves the "Lords of the Reborn Star League".....and yet people think the Clans' vision of the Star League would be worse.....)

Oshay, I must admit that I too am surprised at how foolish people are in today's world. It truly worries me sometimes that people do not think or even consider that there are greater evils out in the world.....and yet they are ignored.....

[FireNova]

Evinthal, on 14 July 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Let's face it. The Word of Blake are the good guys. PERIOD, end of story.

[Oshay]

FireNova, on 20 July 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

and yet people think the Clans' vision of the Star League would be worse.....)

Oshay, I must admit that I too am surprised at how foolish people are in today's world. It truly worries me sometimes that people do not think or even consider that there are greater evils out in the world.....and yet they are ignored.....

Let all of us freebirths toil in the acid mines for the Greater Glory of the Space Dumpster Spawn. Seyla.

[FireNova]

Oshay, on 20 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Let all of us freebirths toil in the acid mines for the Greater Glory of the Space Dumpster Spawn. Seyla.

*Sarcasm detected*

So.....being nuked to death by fanatical Blakist terrorists is better? Or being lied to by ComStar's media HPG program? Or having technology being kept from everyone that might improve the lives of others?

Suicide of a Superpower by Patrick J. Buchanan is quite a fascinating book wouldn't you agree? Its shocking how radical liberal double standards dominate almost everything in today's world and what it has done to common sense and human prosperity. And in BattleTech, ComStar has done quite a good job of making the Successor State loyalists nothing more than mere puppets just by using the very same liberal media tactics to distract, misguide, divide, and bring down rationality, common sense, and honest debate all for the sake of holding power.

Is this what you would want in charge of a reunited Star League vs a somewhat harsh Clan vision of the Star League? Are both bad? In a way yes. But the question is.....which is the greater evil? Is being silenced in HPG communications or technological freedom/human progress because a new world order cult wants to act like gods of humanity and prolong suffering just for the sake of holding their power actually this appealing to pro-Inner Sphere followers/players? Diamond Shark/Sea Fox actually SOLD Clan technology to the Inner Sphere and for goodness sake even the more moderate LIBERAL WARDEN Clans did more to protect the Inner Sphere than any media juggernaut like ComStar would EVER do for the people of the Inner Sphere (if ANYTHING at ALL).....the fact I actually can defend the liberal Warden Clans on that issue of helping the IS alone despite favoring the Conservative Crusader Clans myself just shows how "great" ComStar/WoB really is.....

So all the Clan haters and SJ haters really need a wakeup call and see that ComStar/WoB is SO BAD....that YEAH I would rather work in a mine for "the Greater Glory of the Space Chuck Norris' of the Universe." ...and yeah even if that Clan mine was a Warden Clan mine.....

SEYLA.

[jakucha]

Bird is the word, Blake is not.

[FireNova]

jakucha, on 21 July 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Bird is the word, Blake is not.

You can say that again.

[Oshay]

Well, first of all, you're mixing in game talk with real world political talk, which is just... odd. And confusing. And completely besides the point in a Smoke Jaguar versus Word of Blake debate, which is what you're trying to make this into. Referencing Patrick J. Buchanan implies that people will know who Patrick J Buchanan is. I will tell you bluntly that I have no idea who he is, he is probably an American, and the way you are throwing out words like "Liberal" and "Conservative" likely makes you an American too. I've got a news flash for you. Not all of us live in countries with political systems like the Good Ol' U.S. of A. Furthermore, the Word of Blake are religious nutters who by your own admission want to keep everything for themselves, which makes THEM the Conservatives, not the 'evil liberal media', since liberals by definition tax heavily, spend more heavily, subsidize eveyrthing, and want to give everybody everything for free, not withholding it. So your arguments are contradictory and odd.

Now, having gotten that out of the way, let me dissect your actual arguments that have to do with Battletech, and not real world politics.

I seem to recall Clan Scientists as a whole hated their society so much that they rebelled against it and caused massive devastation and genocide of their own. You /do/ recall the Wars of Reaving, right? That little thing that had nothing to do with Blake? A Clan's self-incriminating malediction upon it's own inequitable society? But if that's not enough, let's continue.

Talking about your Star League Under the Clans vision, there is no way that any of the Crusader Clans would have implemented a 'slightly harsher' version of the original Star League. The Crusader Clan vision was to invade the Inner Sphere, enslave their populaces in their entirety, and make Inner Sphere a giant pool of freebirth slavery where they would serve their nietschean ubermensch overlords in upholding the Clan Way. I.E. a caste system of the most brutal sort, where there is no upward social mobility, only downward. The Wardens of course did not agree, but the two sides could not and did not reconcile their visions peacefully. This lead, of course, to the Refusal War of 3057, and the Wars of Reaving a decade later.

Still not enough?

Let's discuss the perpetual myth that the Blakists withhold technology from everyone. This is false. Certainly, they withhold them from their enemies, but you seem to forget that Terra was one of the nicest places to live in the Inner Sphere, it had the best technology in the Inner Sphere, the highest standard of living, and people there lived long, peaceful happy lives, where they were not brainwashed or indoctrinated in any particular way. This was true under both ComStar and the Word of Blake. As I have stated earlier in this thread, the Word of Blake was planning to GIVE GIFTS TO THE STAR LEAGUE MEMBER STATES. THIS INCLUDED HIGH TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY DID NOT ALREADY POSSESS.

The Jihad only occurred once the Star League proved it was decadent, corrupt, and a political alliance of convenience... ironically, the same epithets that the Clans had applied to it. The Smoke Jaguars, meanwhile, razed Edo into bubbling glass because of an insurrection by a small percentage of the populace. In essence, the genetically superior supermen couldn't handle a few hundred thousand civilians performing civil insurrection, and responded by murdering several million of them with lazors from space.

I'm not going to proclaim Blakist superiority to the Smoke Jaguars, the way you are proclaiming Jaguar and Clan superiority to the Word of blake. I'll let everyone make up their own minds based on the facts. *shrugs*

[JFlash49]

hahaha! word of blake ahh you kidder you :')

[Evinthal]

Oshay, on 21 July 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Well, first of all, you're mixing in game talk with real world political talk, which is just... odd. And confusing. And completely besides the point in a Smoke Jaguar versus Word of Blake debate, which is what you're trying to make this into. Referencing Patrick J. Buchanan implies that people will know who Patrick J Buchanan is. I will tell you bluntly that I have no idea who he is, he is probably an American, and the way you are throwing out words like "Liberal" and "Conservative" likely makes you an American too. I've got a news flash for you. Not all of us live in countries with political systems like the Good Ol' U.S. of A. Furthermore, the Word of Blake are religious nutters who by your own admission want to keep everything for themselves, which makes THEM the Conservatives, not the 'evil liberal media', since liberals by definition tax heavily, spend more heavily, subsidize eveyrthing, and want to give everybody everything for free, not withholding it. So your arguments are contradictory and odd.

Now, having gotten that out of the way, let me dissect your actual arguments that have to do with Battletech, and not real world politics.

I seem to recall Clan Scientists as a whole hated their society so much that they rebelled against it and caused massive devastation and genocide of their own. You /do/ recall the Wars of Reaving, right? That little thing that had nothing to do with Blake? A Clan's self-incriminating malediction upon it's own inequitable society? But if that's not enough, let's continue.

Talking about your Star League Under the Clans vision, there is no way that any of the Crusader Clans would have implemented a 'slightly harsher' version of the original Star League. The Crusader Clan vision was to invade the Inner Sphere, enslave their populaces in their entirety, and make Inner Sphere a giant pool of freebirth slavery where they would serve their nietschean ubermensch overlords in upholding the Clan Way. I.E. a caste system of the most brutal sort, where there is no upward social mobility, only downward. The Wardens of course did not agree, but the two sides could not and did not reconcile their visions peacefully. This lead, of course, to the Refusal War of 3057, and the Wars of Reaving a decade later.

Still not enough?

Let's discuss the perpetual myth that the Blakists withhold technology from everyone. This is false. Certainly, they withhold them from their enemies, but you seem to forget that Terra was one of the nicest places to live in the Inner Sphere, it had the best technology in the Inner Sphere, the highest standard of living, and people there lived long, peaceful happy lives, where they were not brainwashed or indoctrinated in any particular way. This was true under both ComStar and the Word of Blake. As I have stated earlier in this thread, the Word of Blake was planning to GIVE GIFTS TO THE STAR LEAGUE MEMBER STATES. THIS INCLUDED HIGH TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY DID NOT ALREADY POSSESS.

The Jihad only occurred once the Star League proved it was decadent, corrupt, and a political alliance of convenience... ironically, the same epithets that the Clans had applied to it. The Smoke Jaguars, meanwhile, razed Edo into bubbling glass because of an insurrection by a small percentage of the populace. In essence, the genetically superior supermen couldn't handle a few hundred thousand civilians performing civil insurrection, and responded by murdering several million of them with lazors from space.

I'm not going to proclaim Blakist superiority to the Smoke Jaguars, the way you are proclaiming Jaguar and Clan superiority to the Word of blake. I'll let everyone make up their own minds based on the facts. *shrugs*

Exactly this. I am seriously not surprised by how many people (not all of you are like this thankfully, and thank you for actually backing up your side.) actually do not read the manuals about the Jihad and learn about the Blakists. They were actually MASS PRODUCING WAR SHIPS, not to mention advancing the technological base far and beyond anything that had been done before and at break neck speeds at that.

Cybernetics, above and beyond the lame Enhanced Imagine the Clans had, advanced medical research, a way eliminate the need for a gyroscopic stabilizer in a mech by attaching it to a battle armor inside of the cockpit (which by the way also increased the survivability of the pilot by giving them extra protection!), Re-evaluating the Land Air Mechs and field testing them, slaughtering the scared cow that is the 100 ton mech weight limit via the Omega and having it not be a complete waste, or derpy looking like the later Republic of the Sphere Ares colossus class mechs, vastly improving the stagnate field of stealth technology that the great and powerful houses and even ComStar themselves hadn't significantly improved upon.

They very much wanted to be part of the Star League and wanted to guide humanity forward, but the decadence and corruption that plagues the Inner Sphere reared its ugly head once again and forced their hand into rash action as has been pointed out by Oshay in the following quote.

Oshay, on 16 July 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

What kicked off the JIhad, however, and what most people seem to forget, is that the Word was about to join the Second Star League in 3067. The Successor Lords once again chose to destroy the Star League. The Word of Blake then turned the inconceivably massive arsenal it had built up at that point, and which it was planning to share with the Star League Defence Force, on the Successor Lords. The forces that attacked New Avalon and Tharkad were equipped with Military Equipment that had been slated to be turned over to the Alliance and the Suns as gifts.

I said it before and I will say it again: The Jihad could not have happened without the institutionalized nepotism of the Inner Sphere and the laughably inept Clan tactics.

Ultimately the Word of Blake accomplished what Clan Smoke Jaguars and the rest of the Clans had failed to do, that being taking hold of Terra and in a round and about fashion uniting the Inner Sphere for a longer time than they did during the Clan Invasion.

Edited by Evinthal, 21 July 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[Atomfire]

I would stay in my faction AND I WOULD LEAD A WHOLE MARCH ON A CRUSADE TO CRUSH THEM AS SOON AS THEY APPEAR!