19 replies to this topic

[Malleus011]

PGI,

Could we consider having 'all one weight class' drops when a given class is over-represented in the queue?

For example, the latest challenge has seriously loaded up the already full Heavy segment of the matchmaker. Would it be possible to just push some of the extra 'mechs to an 'All Heavy' drop, to keep the other matches more balanced by weight?

[Wintersdark]

I'd be good with that.

[Khobai]

A better idea would be to actually balance all four weight classes so theyre all needed.

Instead of having to come up with special events as an excuse to use certain weight classes

In this particular case, I prefer the carrot method over the stick method. People will have more fun if they WANT to play all four weight classes as opposed to being FORCED to use them.

We all know heavies are too good. So the solution is to make heavies more dependent on lights and mediums. One way to do that would be to give heavies the worst sensors and worst zoom of all the weight classes. Then theyre more dependent on the other weight classes to help them spot targets. Certain Heavies also probably need to be slowed down since they go as fast as mediums which really tramples on the role of mediums.

Edited by Khobai, 11 April 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[Malleus011]

Khobai, on 11 April 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

A better idea would be to actually balance all four weight classes so theyre all needed.

Instead of having to come up with special events as an excuse to use certain weight classes

In this particular case, I prefer the carrot method over the stick method. People will have more fun if they WANT to play all four weight classes as opposed to being FORCED to use them.

We all know heavies are too good. So the solution is to make heavies more dependent on lights and mediums. One way to do that would be to give heavies the worst sensors and worst zoom of all the weight classes. Then theyre more dependent on the other weight classes to help them spot targets. Certain Heavies also probably need to be slowed down since they go as fast as mediums which really tramples on the role of mediums.

I don't disagree, and think some kind of sane R&R system could help promote exactly what you propose. But, until we get those major changes, this might be a minor one to help ease the overload on certain weight classes.

[Dirty Starfish]

I actually like the deserted light queue! It just means that there are fewer enemy lights to deal with when I take my locust backstabbing.

Someone posted an idea earlier which was to give a bonus to pilots running the least populated weight class. If you got a flat 50k extra, or a 20% bonus for running lights or whatever, I bet more people would play them. In addition to this, the variable c-bill earnings could change based on weight class. For example, a spotting bonus should give you 4x the cbills when you get it in a light vs. in an assault and assists should count for more when you are running a medium.

[mogs01gt]

Khobai, on 11 April 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

A better idea would be to actually balance all four weight classes so theyre all needed.
Instead of having to come up with special events as an excuse to use certain weight classes
In this particular case, I prefer the carrot method over the stick method. People will have more fun if they WANT to play all four weight classes as opposed to being FORCED to use them.
We all know heavies are too good. So the solution is to make heavies more dependent on lights and mediums. One way to do that would be to give heavies the worst sensors and worst zoom of all the weight classes. Then theyre more dependent on the other weight classes to help them spot targets. Certain Heavies also probably need to be slowed down since they go as fast as mediums which really tramples on the role of mediums.

or instead of actually changing how mech functions, push the support of lance on lance combat. Make randomized spawn points in sections of maps so that lances had to fight. This would only work if the lances had each weight class and have max weight of 250t or whatever.

[Novakaine]

I'd say if you lose a mech in a match that particular mech should be out for a certain period of time.
For repairs.
It would help in getting a more diverse match weight class wise.
Sure it be tough on new players so it should depend of the amount of mechs in your bays.

[FupDup]

Malleus011, on 11 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't disagree, and think some kind of sane R&R system could help promote exactly what you propose. But, until we get those major changes, this might be a minor one to help ease the overload on certain weight classes.

What that means is that new players are forced to use SHS Vindicators with STD engines and no Endo, while veteran players don't have to change their habits at all because of already having a stockpile of cash.

C-Bills don't balance the game, the one and only function of C-Bills are to limit the amount of non-MC content you can have (e.g. mechs).

Edited by FupDup, 11 April 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Malleus011, on 11 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't disagree, and think some kind of sane R&R system could help promote exactly what you propose. But, until we get those major changes, this might be a minor one to help ease the overload on certain weight classes.

No.

R&R never works the way proponents want it to work, and certainly not in the framework of a game with newbies and veterans with such disparate amounts of wealth and equipment.

What it does, and this is unavoidable, is punishes loss. Stronger players win more, and thus earn more. As such, they can afford to pilot better mechs - then win even more. R&R then only serves to feed them.the poor new players and just less good players fielding terrible mechs They can't afford to repair. It makes the economy worse than the current Paulconomy, where progress for newer players is somehow even slower.

I started in such a time, when we had R&R and veterans from closed beta who had huge stockpiles of cash. What it meant was that my standard engine SHS Commando had to face fully upgraded K2's and Jenner's. Try getting a decent win rate vs players in an XL300 ES/FF Jenner when you're piloting a Standard engine K2 without FF. Good luck.

But no matter how you change the system, it's fundamentally going to be "the rich get richer, the poor get poorer". It doesn't drive more balanced mech builds in the slightest. It just means poor players take the cheapest route they can to maximize earnings when they (inevitably) lose, and better players still run " meta" to ensure they win.

FupDup, on 11 April 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

What that means is that new players are forced to use SHS Vindicators with STD engines and no Endo, while veteran players don't have to change their habits at all because of already having a stockpile of cash.

C-Bills don't balance the game, the one and only function of C-Bills are to limit the amount of non-MC content you can have (e.g. mechs).

Exactly. Cbills are just "out of battle" progress, that's all. Unusable entirely for in battle balancing.

[Impyrium]

Khobai, on 11 April 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

A better idea would be to actually balance all four weight classes so theyre all needed.

Instead of having to come up with special events as an excuse to use certain weight classes

In this particular case, I prefer the carrot method over the stick method. People will have more fun if they WANT to play all four weight classes as opposed to being FORCED to use them.

We all know heavies are too good. So the solution is to make heavies more dependent on lights and mediums. One way to do that would be to give heavies the worst sensors and worst zoom of all the weight classes. Then theyre more dependent on the other weight classes to help them spot targets. Certain Heavies also probably need to be slowed down since they go as fast as mediums which really tramples on the role of mediums.

You mean elements of info warfare? See, this is why I wish the last Public Test on the info war mechanics didn't get buried under hate so quickly.

On the plus side, according to Sean and Bombadil it wasn't ever completely scrapped and might see the light of day again. Fingers crossed.

[Tristan Winter]

But then who will people blame when they lose Assault or Conquest via cap?

[Lyoto Machida]

Dirty Starfish, on 11 April 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

I actually like the deserted light queue! It just means that there are fewer enemy lights to deal with when I take my locust backstabbing.

Someone posted an idea earlier which was to give a bonus to pilots running the least populated weight class. If you got a flat 50k extra, or a 20% bonus for running lights or whatever, I bet more people would play them. In addition to this, the variable c-bill earnings could change based on weight class. For example, a spotting bonus should give you 4x the cbills when you get it in a light vs. in an assault and assists should count for more when you are running a medium.

This idea has been around for ages...could even work to balance out lesser used variants of a chassis. Of course, you probably will get some pushback from hero mechs owners (on the use of c-bills to balance out lesser variants in a chassis group...unless heros got the same bonus as the variant with the highest bonus).

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Dirty Starfish, on 11 April 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

I actually like the deserted light queue! It just means that there are fewer enemy lights to deal with when I take my locust backstabbing.

Someone posted an idea earlier which was to give a bonus to pilots running the least populated weight class. If you got a flat 50k extra, or a 20% bonus for running lights or whatever, I bet more people would play them. In addition to this, the variable c-bill earnings could change based on weight class. For example, a spotting bonus should give you 4x the cbills when you get it in a light vs. in an assault and assists should count for more when you are running a medium.

I doubt 50k would convince most people to run lights considering most folks can't handle getting one shot when someone sneezes at you.

[xTrident]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 12 April 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

I doubt 50k would convince most people to run lights considering most folks can't handle getting one shot when someone sneezes at you.

An extra 50k would be more than enough for me. 50k isn't that bad when you consider how much people make without premium time. That 50k isn't bad and over and you're talking about an extra 1 mil cbills after just 20 matches.

People can learn how to use lights, at least well enough to earn a similar amount of money as they would with heavier mechs. I've had some great games with lights.

[Saltychipmunk]

Khobai, on 11 April 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

A better idea would be to actually balance all four weight classes so theyre all needed.

Instead of having to come up with special events as an excuse to use certain weight classes

In this particular case, I prefer the carrot method over the stick method. People will have more fun if they WANT to play all four weight classes as opposed to being FORCED to use them.

We all know heavies are too good. So the solution is to make heavies more dependent on lights and mediums. One way to do that would be to give heavies the worst sensors and worst zoom of all the weight classes. Then theyre more dependent on the other weight classes to help them spot targets. Certain Heavies also probably need to be slowed down since they go as fast as mediums which really tramples on the role of mediums.

But that is impractical. The sad fact is that many mechs are designed for the absence of other mechs . Heck many mechs are designed explicitly for certain roles. they were never meant for the kind of blind 12 on 12 death matches we have right now.

Some were just meant for light skirmishes or scouting. but you flat out dont get that as an option. its always 12 vs 12 any mech vs any mech.

so it is only logical that mechs that are good at that kind of brain dead death blob mentality would be the best mech.

good range to maintain a death blob?
ability to mount heavier weapons to get that range?
ability to have heavy armor AND decent mobility?
ability to fit a ton of heat sinks?

That is what a 12 v12 death match would want and that is a perfect description of your average heavy mech.

your other mechs cant compete for that because they arent built for that.

assaults mechs are meant for siege warfare where taking damage is not something you can avoid
mediums are for ganking lighter mechs
light mechs are scouts.

heavys are your all purpose combat mechs.

So if you want lights to be as viable as heavy. then add a game mode that requires a ton of mobility and speed.
if you want mediums to be good... well just make a game mode that wont allow for heavier mechs.
if you want assaults to be good. make a game mode where hanging back and being a ***** is not desirable .

Otherwise you are just trying to make up excuses for deliberately making a mech bad at its primary job.

done blame the tool for doing its job well. give the other tools some bloody jobs to do.

Edited by Saltychipmunk, 12 April 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Davers]

Malleus011, on 11 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't disagree, and think some kind of sane R&R system could help promote exactly what you propose. But, until we get those major changes, this might be a minor one to help ease the overload on certain weight classes.

R&R is about balancing with the stick, not the carrot. It doesn't make other weight classes more fun to play, just less punishing to lose.

Novakaine, on 11 April 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

I'd say if you lose a mech in a match that particular mech should be out for a certain period of time.
For repairs.
It would help in getting a more diverse match weight class wise.
Sure it be tough on new players so it should depend of the amount of mechs in your bays.

You can't have a system like this in a game where selling cash mechs is the primary income.

[Triordinant]

I'd sign up for non-stop Heavies Only matches all day every day.

[AztecD]

If there was only a way for ...*cough* Solaris.. mechs to drop on the same weight class

[Dale Grible]

To the OP. YOUR BRAIN IS OP! great idea, any others?

[Ace Selin]

Novakaine, on 11 April 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

I'd say if you lose a mech in a match that particular mech should be out for a certain period of time.
For repairs.
It would help in getting a more diverse match weight class wise.
Sure it be tough on new players so it should depend of the amount of mechs in your bays.

So i use one of my 5 Tibmerwolves, then i can play the other four and two are identical SRM brawler copies.
I have multiple other duplicated mechs too (usually for CW), so not a problem for me and i could easily purchase duplicates of many other mechs.