127 replies to this topic

[Richard Hazen]

Since I got hold of the Warhammer and extensively tested it I've begun to understand the frustration others share with PPCs.

Why bother with them when you can take lasers that do just as much damage and sometimes more but don't cost as much heat or space or guess work to hit targets. Large Pulse Lasers do 11 damage and cost 7 heat and it pulses to the target for more direct application.

The only advantage the PPC and ER PPC have over it is the range, but that it's negated when you consider it does 10 damage costs 10 or 15 heat, has to travel to the target like a ballistic and also costs an additional slot. There's a definite imbalance there and it's quite concerting, because I want to use PPCs on mechs that are known to use them and in specific positions.

Not only do Warhammers use two, they also use them on the arms which are underslung and lower than their other weapon points so in fact the main characteristic of the Warhammer, not only has inadequate stated weapons but they are also in the least useful position.

There has to be some payoff for using them, range means nothing when it's mitigated by several circumstances and it's not even the best ranged weapon because of the gauss. They either need their heat drastically reduced or lasers have their heat increased or they need to do more damage than lasers to compensate for their heat expenditure.

[thehiddenedge]

last I heard they were dropping heat by .5 and upping velocity by 100, but I feel you man. I love me some PPC's, but they make me sad some days.


Don't even get me started on those Warhammer arms...

Edited by thehiddenedge, 10 April 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[SteelBruiser]

Will Hawker, on 10 April 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Since I got hold of the Warhammer and extensively tested it I've begun to understand the frustration others share with PPCs.

Why bother with them when you can take lasers that do just as much damage and sometimes more but don't cost as much heat or space or guess work to hit targets. Large Pulse Lasers do 11 damage and cost 7 heat and it pulses to the target for more direct application.

The only advantage the PPC and ER PPC have over it is the range, but that it's negated when you consider it does 10 damage costs 10 or 15 heat, has to travel to the target like a ballistic and also costs an additional slot. There's a definite imbalance there and it's quite concerting, because I want to use PPCs on mechs that are known to use them and in specific positions.

Not only do Warhammers use two, they also use them on the arms which are underslung and lower than their other weapon points so in fact the main characteristic of the Warhammer, not only has inadequate stated weapons but they are also in the least useful position.

There has to be some payoff for using them, range means nothing when it's mitigated by several circumstances and it's not even the best ranged weapon because of the gauss. They either need their heat drastically reduced or lasers have their heat increased or they need to do more damage than lasers to compensate for their heat expenditure.

Plus it's so slow most long distance targets can see and readily avoid it so the range benefit is reduced as well.

[Escherichio]

A perk of PPCs is being able to neutralize ECM units briefly. It's not in TT, and it's mentioned in lore and I think some previous games. This makes accurate PPC fire frightening for enabling targeting & brief LRM barrages. Trick is to allow a delay between each PPC show to maximize the time the ECM is disabled.

[oldradagast]

Between PPC's having questionable hit-reg, high heat, a hard minimum range, and slow flight time, there's almost not reason to use them over Large Pulse Lasers. With super-quirks, maybe, that's about it. ERPPC's are even worse, trading out the minimum range for so much heat that they are basically useless.

[theta123]

Escherichio, on 10 April 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

A perk of PPCs is being able to neutralize ECM units briefly. It's not in TT, and it's mentioned in lore and I think some previous games. This makes accurate PPC fire frightening for enabling targeting & brief LRM barrages. Trick is to allow a delay between each PPC show to maximize the time the ECM is disabled.

its mentioned in lore but if i recall, you lose your ecm for like what, 1 second? Way to little to be effecitve at all

[Metus regem]

Thing is, I actually like that PPC's have a higher skill floor and celling than lasers, as it means only those that are good with them will keep using them. Looking at my stats, PPC's are my most accurate weapon, edgeing out MLas by a couple of percent.

[kapusta11]

Or just increase their speed and remove ridiculous 50% quirks.

[Alan Davion]

thehiddenedge, on 10 April 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

last I heard they were dropping heat by .5 and upping velocity by 100, but I feel you man. I love me some PPC's, but they make me sad some days.

Don't even get me started on those Warhammer arms...

Where did you hear that from?

There's no numbers given in the April Road Map where it says, and I quote...

Quote

PPCs, ERPPCs and Clan ERPPCs have received increases to their projectile speed, and their base heat generation has been reduced. While the changes may seem slight on paper, they should have enough effect in-game to change the actual and perceived viability of these weapon systems.

Could someone perhaps post up the base PPC/ERPPC/C-ERPPC stats so we can theory craft a little bit on this subject?

[Escherichio]

theta123, on 10 April 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

its mentioned in lore but if i recall, you lose your ecm for like what, 1 second? Way to little to be effecitve at all

I'll agree it's brief. Controlled chain fire is how you can drag out the window, and you only need a to tag the target. ECM is still too strong so I value disrupting it for the battlefield intelligence it creates. Hardest part is hitting multiple shots sequentially to maintain the dorito over your target so the team can focus fire.

[Mcgral18]

Reducing heat has the bad effect of PP FLD spam, which simply put isn't fun.

See Thud 9S or two years prior, the PPC Meta. 7.5-8/12 heat (ER)PPCs filled the skies.
Increasing damage is also a bad idea.


Increase their velocity, and increase their cooldowns as well. Mid-long range weapons, which can be used effectively at those ranges, but not have the same cooldown as an SRM6 or AC20 (exclusively short ranged weapons)

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 April 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[Mystere]

I don't mind (ER)PPCs instead inducing side effects on target:

• HUD disruption
  
• vision blurring
  
• massive increase in heat
  
• loss of targetting

[Aiden Skye]

At least your IS mechs have tons of chassis with 30 - 50% PPC velocity. Including the warhammer. Many of with have huge heat reduction quirks as well. Try using unquirked PPC's, whole different story without those massive quirks.

I would like to see velocity and damage bumped for sure on ERPPC's. If they are gonna be 15 heat they should at least be on par or closer to Large pulse lasers for damage.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 10 April 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[cazidin]

Here's how you make PPCs and ER-PPCs good weapons again. Increase their velocity by 400-500 M/S, this may seem extreme but you won't see PPCs often on a mech without 30-50% velocity quirks. Reduce heat by 1-3. 8-9 Heat PPCs and 13-14 heat ER PPCs.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 10 April 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Reducing heat has the bad effect of PP FLD spam, which simple put isn't fun.

See Thud 9S or two years prior, the PPC Meta. 7.5-8/12 heat (ER)PPCs filled the skies.
Increasing damage is also a bad idea.


Increase their velocity, and increase their cooldowns as well. Mid-long range weapons, which can be used effectively at those ranges, but not have the same cooldown as an SRM6 or AC20 (exclusively short ranged weapons)

Mind you, PPC and ERPPC have to be as good as LL and ERLL, respectively, with all factors considered if you want them to be good. That includes a heat adjustment, unless you want to do something to those lasers to reduce their output, too.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 April 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Mind you, PPC and ERPPC have to be as good as LL and ERLL, respectively, with all factors considered if you want them to be good. That includes a heat adjustment, unless you want to do something to those lasers to reduce their output, too.

The PPFLD, in theory, is supposed to make up for the heat. The issue is just the slowish speed that reduces the value of that PPFLD.

Keep in mind that both Peeps have longer on-paper range than their respective laser counterpart, which again doesn't get used often because of that velocity making them not reliable at those ranges.

[Spheroid]

I am of the opinion that I.S. ghost heat on LPLAS should trigger at two and not three. They need to do this not only in competition with PPCs but large lasers and Clan tech as well.

Edited by Spheroid, 10 April 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

kapusta11, on 10 April 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Or just increase their speed and remove ridiculous 50% quirks.

This.

Why do u need such ridiculus quirks to make a weapon system at least playable?

Edited by Steve Pryde, 10 April 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Leave PPCs as is, buffing PPCs nerfs brawling... which this game needs more of.

[LordNothing]

i want the planned changes, but i also want 2 points of splash on is ppcs, and a longer ecm disruption time on all ppcs, especially the standard ppc (give it a bigger niche).

LegendaryArticuno, on 10 April 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Leave PPCs as is, buffing PPCs nerfs brawling... which this game needs more of.

thats probibly a side effect of the ppc being so damn hot that you cant brawl with it. the std ppc would be right if it could hit targets inside 90.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 April 2016 - 11:13 AM.