68 replies to this topic

[Mad Dog Morgan]

I've been watching how people deck out their mechs, and most would agree, Machine Guns are wasted tonnage in the current state of affairs.

Having their damage at 0.12 was apparently too much for PGI, and reverting the damage back to 0.08 was an excessive nerf.

I propose 0.10 as the damage to give to machine guns, and slightly increase the critical chance. After all, they are generally only used in extreme close-quarters situations. If they are effectively less useful than small lasers (in terms of DPS), they deserve a buff. Having a DPS of 1 instead of 0.8 would justify their tonnage enough. Having a DPS of 1.2 would be even more so, to account for the ammo required.

Right now, they're just in a bad state.

No, not talking Missouri.

[FupDup]

The reason we can't have good Machine Guns is this:



As you can see, it would have an incredibly devastating effect to the back of an Atlas, similar to the 3-Second-Jenner.

Edited by FupDup, 12 April 2016 - 11:47 AM.

[cazidin]

FupDup, on 12 April 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

The reason we can't have good Machine Guns is this:



As you can see, it would have an incredibly devastating effect to the back of an Atlas, similar to the 3-Second-Jenner.

The 8 MG spider shall forever haunt my darkest nightmares. PGI, please never fix!

[FupDup]

cazidin, on 12 April 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

The 8 MG spider shall forever haunt my darkest nightmares. PGI, please never fix!

It was actually a 6 MG Spider that Paul/Bryan were afraid of.

An 8 MG Spider would be the end of all life and civilization as we know it.

Edited by FupDup, 12 April 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Nope.


The machine guns are good back ups for weapons with long cooldowns. I would like a buff, though. They aren't very slot efficient.

Edited by Snowbluff, 12 April 2016 - 12:03 PM.

[Shabahh Kerensky]

FupDup, on 12 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

It was actually a 6 MG Spider that Paul/Bryan were afraid of.

An 8 MG Spider would be the end of all life and civilization as we know it.

I'm sorry I hear this a lot, what is the deal with the 6 mg spider exactly?

[Madcap72]

MG's don't SEEM effective, until you have 3-4+ and use them to crit hunt after can opening something with LPL's.

While thier initial damage is low, with the increasing crit multiplier, and high ROF they'll gut mechs with a surprising quickness once th armor is gone, or you can shoot into an arm hole.

[FupDup]

Shabahh Kerensky, on 12 April 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

I'm sorry I hear this a lot, what is the deal with the 6 mg spider exactly?

Once upon a time, PGI did this thing called Ask The Devs. They made a thread, picked out a handful of questions from players, and then answered them in another thread. During one of these ATD sessions, they were asked why MGs were being kept so weak.

Bryan answered by proposing a scenario of how much of a "devastating effect" it would have "on the back of an Atlas." I don't have the exact quote on this computer (I have it at home, can post later), but that was basically their excuse.

To this day, the 6 MG Spider is a running joke because it's impossible in the Mechlab (max is 4 MG Spider) and it's just an unfounded/irrational fear.

Edited by FupDup, 12 April 2016 - 12:23 PM.

[Rhaythe]

I ran a 6MG, 4 MPL Jager for the longest time. Fun mech.

[Shabahh Kerensky]

FupDup, on 12 April 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Once upon a time, PGI did this thing called Ask The Devs. They made a thread, picked out a handful of questions from players, and then answered them in another thread. During one of these ATD sessions, they were asked why MGs were being kept so weak.

Bryan answered by proposing a scenario of how much of a "devastating effect" it would have "on the back of an Atlas." I don't have the exact quote on this computer (I have it at home, can post later), but that was basically their excuse.

To this day, the 6 MG Spider is a running joke because it's impossible in the Mechlab (max is 4 MG Spider) and it's just an unfounded/irrational fear.

Ah ok thanks, that does sound silly indeed. Would like to see that quote too.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Snowbluff, on 12 April 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

The machine guns are good back ups for weapons with long cooldowns. I would like a buff, though. They aren't very slot efficient.

THIS MAN GETS IT.

Machineguns are actually weight efficient, but they are slot inefficient. Start mounting 2-3 MGs per ballistic hardpoint and they will suddenly be useful.

[FupDup]

Shabahh Kerensky, on 12 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Ah ok thanks, that does sound silly indeed. Would like to see that quote too.

Okay, I'm home now. The exact quote is here:

Bryan Ekman, ATD #35 said:

CCQ 3: Why is Machine Gun damage so low?

A: Partly due to the nature of how MGs work in the TT rules, partially due to how we chose to make it useful. When equipping a MG, keep in mind that it is not meant to burn through armor but is very useful for tearing up internals (crits). Bumping MG damage will turn it into a laser that can be kept on with no heat penalty until it runs out of ammo. Now imagine the devastating effect that a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an Atlas! We are still investigating balance of the MG but don’t expect any significant increase in damage.

I will comment here that their intepretation of "how MGs work in the TT rules" is factually incorrect. TT rules deal with MGs in these ways:

• 2 points of damage to mech armor (coincidentally the same as the AC/2)
  
• 2d6 damage to unarmored infantry squads (kills 2-12 troopers per turn), or 1d6 against armored infantry
  
• Same critical hit properties as all other weapons

Edited by FupDup, 12 April 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 12 April 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Okay, I'm home now. The exact quote is here:



I will comment here that their intepretation of "how MGs work in the TT rules" is factually incorrect. TT rules deal with MGs in these ways:

• 2 points of damage to mech armor (coincidentally the same as the AC/2)
  
• 2d6 damage to unarmored infantry squads (kills 2-12 troopers per turn), or 1d6 against armored infantry
  
• Same critical hit properties as all other weapons

Yea, misinterpretation is to blame for us having bad MG's.

Yet the arrow exists, so does the sad cat, so why are 6mg's so bad again?

Id really love to have good MG's again, if for nothing else then to have a reason to run my Ember again.

[Thunder Child]

The simplest fix for them would be to triple the damage, halve the ammo count, and give them a hard Maximum range of 180m.

Make them brutally efficient in Melee range, but ammo-intensive, and utterly useless outside of point blank range.

[Deathlike]

Space Trump said:

Make MGs Great Again!

[Shabahh Kerensky]

FupDup, on 12 April 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Okay, I'm home now. The exact quote is here:



I will comment here that their intepretation of "how MGs work in the TT rules" is factually incorrect. TT rules deal with MGs in these ways:

• 2 points of damage to mech armor (coincidentally the same as the AC/2)
  
• 2d6 damage to unarmored infantry squads (kills 2-12 troopers per turn), or 1d6 against armored infantry
  
• Same critical hit properties as all other weapons

Wow I can't believe I missed that. That is pure gold right there.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Instead of making mg useable against mechs they could just add infantry to shoot....

[Cyborne Elemental]

Damage up to a minimum 1.0 DPS to match Small laser = win
Cone of fire tighter so its not spreading what little damage it does. = win

Keep its crit ability to knockout weapons and equipment where it is at currently, it seems fine.

[jss78]

Prosperity Park, on 12 April 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

THIS MAN GETS IT.

Machineguns are actually weight efficient, but they are slot inefficient. Start mounting 2-3 MGs per ballistic hardpoint and they will suddenly be useful.

I'd actually agree with this (and the quoted poster). They're not exactly horrible weapons for their weight. But they're very rarely the way you want to use those hardpoints either.

In practice I think I currently have MG's on exactly two builds. One's the Arrow, as I can't think of anything else to do with it.

The second is the CDA-3C. There's simply nothing else to put on it! After slapping on the mandatory ER-PPC, the max engine (XL340), even a BAP, there's still tonnage left, so in go the 4xMG with 1000 rounds of ammo. For 2.5 tons the 4xMG array isn't even that awful a backup weapon. About the same DPS as an AC/5 or a pair of MPL's, and heat neutral. And that mech has the speed to close in and finish those cored-out slowpokes.

[Cryzak]

Atleast give give machine gun range back for arrow what it was before...now arrow is just bad, bad...