242 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 14 April 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

God tier.

Would be proper nomenclature.

I love this comment because it was only like a month+ ago where people were crying this is a useless obselete assault mech that gives you no reason to use this over the Direwolf besides simply being faster.


Now, lots of people are stating power creep...

Problem is that there is many many many aspects to MW: O that isn't just simple binary numbers in the sense of stats and performance. Sure- the Arctic Cheetah may be that new shiny ECM jumpjetting clan mech but you still see a lot of people play older mechs like the Jenner or lighter mechs with less shiny bits and bobs like the Locust. Manly because they still have their strong advantages and the new stuff still have their disadvantages. For eg the fact the Locust is still like 20+ Kph faster, a smaller profile, and can do more things with ballistic (machine guns) and missiles (quad SRM 2's). and so on.
With the Kodiak the direwolf, atlas, and kingcrab (all other 100 tonners) still have strong advantages. From the fact the Direwolf for it's XL 300 still has the highest firepower potential and can always mount more weapons then a Kodiak in rather any specific field or overall. The King Crab still has high mounted energy and missiles with the lethal duel ballistic AC 20s or it's foreign brother the Gauss Rifle. In the situation of the AC 20 it is a pinpoint 40 damage alpha that the kodiak can not match with such accuracy. Lastly but not least the Atlas. Able to do most of the time the same firepower potential as the Kodiak at least in the sense of DPS and HPS (strong advantage the IS have flat out over clans) but also the fact that arguably the Kodiak is the most bulkiest and largest of these mechs and will most likely not get 20% AC 20 quirks or a 10% all energy range increase like some of the IS mechs have. There is the variable of armour quirks which we do not know what the kodiak will get and how it will be put up against the atlas and king crab. however it is safe to assume the IS mechs have superior internals and armour values.
The Kodiak may be the first 100 tonner to join the league of competitive play more commonly in smaller groups in matches (ie: excluding 12 man teams that will never nascar and leave their direwolfs to die).
To be quite honest the 4 ballistic variant of the kodiak is my least hyped for variant and I personally can't be bothered to build it for the first month or so or do more then just make it a stock+ or what ever. I do not see it too appealing to me but hey, I see the light and shadows of every mech. Perhaps it's the fact I got a bunch of other mechs with similar properties to this variant that turned me off for it and the fact that I want a symmetrical energy load out with 4 energy weapons... would have loved to have some missile hardpoints on that variant.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

It gets clan weapons right?

Yes.

Quad Gauss is 48 tons, and you can't fit two cGauss in a ST with a Clan XL, you need to use a standard engine. So.. i'll let you do the math but that build isn't going to be viable. Its garbage on the Dire as well.

[Gyrok]

Scout Derek, on 14 April 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

???

I'm pretty sure they did for the Dire Wolf. But I'm curious if I'm wrong, could you tell me what they didn't follow on concept art?

CT is MUCH wider on the in game model, and the overhang is significantly longer.

They basically put a 747 nose with an awning on the concept art model.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yes.

Quad Gauss is 48 tons, and you can't fit two cGauss in a ST with a Clan XL, you need to use a standard engine. So.. i'll let you do the math but that build isn't going to be viable. Its garbage on the Dire as well.

People said the TW-A left torso would be game breaking OP as well...and it is basically just a "SHOOT HERE PLZ" target on the LT of a TW.

The only build it really makes sense for is the 4 ERLL build...simply because you can get 3 of the 4 up high to peak.

Edited by Gyrok, 14 April 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yes.

Quad Gauss is 48 tons, and you can't fit two cGauss in a ST with a Clan XL, you need to use a standard engine. So.. i'll let you do the math but that build isn't going to be viable. Its garbage on the Dire as well.

Clan gauss uses 6 slots.... each torso has 12. So two guass will fit, right?

So
22 tons of armor.
48 tons of gauss.
3.5 tons of ammo.
26.5 tons STD 305

525 damage worth of gauss.... if you need more than that to core and kill a few guys, somethings wrong.

Also the discussion was "The mauler won't be obsolete b/c IS acs hit one spot."

Well so do clan guass, and the mauler can't fit 60PPFLD.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 08:38 PM.

[DjPush]

Looks like ****

[Big Tin Man]

Forget about torso twist, when it can only bend 5 degrees vertically, lolcusts are going to punch it in the nuts.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

Clan gauss uses 6 slots.... each torso has 12. So two guass will fit, right?

So 48 tons of gauss.
12 tons of ammo. (to be fair half of that will be in the arms, but who cares it doesn't explode)
40 tons of IS STD 360 engine.

Also the discussion was "The mauler won't be obsolete b/c IS acs hit one spot."

Well so do clan guass, and the mauler can't fit 60PPFLD.

Edit: Derp forgot chassis / armor weight.

Have you forgotten that you can only fire 2 Gauss at a time? So only 30 PPFLD, the 5 AC5s, do 25, at 840 meters, more or less every second.

Yeah your math is missing some serious values. Just to get an idea, here is an Atlas with a STD300, Endo and Ferro.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b1bdff1f7d67458

Yes, Clan ferro is a bit better, but now you are talking about Dire Wolf speeds and barely enough ammo.

Quad gauss has never been a good build. The fact that you think it is makes me question your judgement..

Also, don't see the build that is 60kph faster than the Mauler...

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 April 2016 - 08:40 PM.

[Gyrok]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

Clan gauss uses 6 slots.... each torso has 12. So two guass will fit, right?

So 48 tons of gauss.
12 tons of ammo. (to be fair half of that will be in the arms, but who cares it doesn't explode)
40 tons of IS STD 360 engine.

Also the discussion was "The mauler won't be obsolete b/c IS acs hit one spot."

Well so do clan guass, and the mauler can't fit 60PPFLD.

Edit: Derp forgot chassis / armor weight.

Where are you coming up with 12 tons of ammo?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...54593169e815bd0

Granted, that is IS ferro, so it is probably off about ~1-2 tons.

With a STD 360 you will not have enough space for the 4 GRs...much less any ammo...that includes stripping the arms to 0 and the legs to 60 as well.

With a STD 300, and 0 arms and 60 legs, you are still shy of 12 tons of ammo.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Yeah your math is missing some serious values.

Gyrok, on 14 April 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Where are you coming up with 12 tons of ammo?

Yeah, I forgot about armor.... I fixed it.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Have you forgotten that you can only fire 2 Gauss at a time? So only 30 PPFLD, the 5 AC5s, do 25, at 840 meters, more or less every second.

"more or less" a second is enough time to charge and fire both sets of gauss

walk backwards behind cover, let gauss reset, step up and repeat.

Ps 1.66 is closer to 2 than 1.

A quad guass kodiak is entirely possible, and it could totally out "range fight" a 4xAC5 mauler.

Now 6xAC2... that might be a close one.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 08:46 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

Clan gauss uses 6 slots.... each torso has 12. So two guass will fit, right?

So
22 tons of armor.
48 tons of gauss.
3.5 tons of ammo.
26.5 tons STD 305

525 damage worth of gauss.... if you need more than that to core and kill a few guys, somethings wrong.

Also the discussion was "The mauler won't be obsolete b/c IS acs hit one spot."

Well so do clan guass, and the mauler can't fit 60PPFLD.

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Have you forgotten that you can only fire 2 Gauss at a time? So only 30 PPFLD, the 5 AC5s, do 25, at 840 meters, more or less every second.

Yeah your math is missing some serious values. Just to get an idea, here is an Atlas with a STD300, Endo and Ferro.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b1bdff1f7d67458

Yes, Clan ferro is a bit better, but now you are talking about Dire Wolf speeds and barely enough ammo.

Quad gauss has never been a good build. The fact that you think it is makes me question your judgement..

Also, don't see the build that is 60kph faster than the Mauler...

You can use SSW for this.

A 100 ton Clam chassis with Ferro, Endo, stripped arms and a STD300 has 57.5 tons of pod space

Fit 4 Gauss Rifles and 6 tons of ammo, you have 1 free Crit slot (in the CT) and arms left. 3 free crits overall, with 3.5 tons left

So, either 7 tons of ammo/TC1 and 2.5 tons of engine, or 3.5 tons of engine

The +2.5 gives you a 310 engine, or 54 Kph...the old Whale speed


It's a Terribad thing to do, with Two bombs strapped to either ST.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Tristan Winter, on 14 April 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

I imagine there will be a riot if Kodiak owners with their cockpit-level quad UAC10 Kodiaks don't also get energy weapons mounted top-down in the arms. Probably some kind of twitter storm, dozens of DOA threads, possibly a few petitions to boycott PGI forever, and the mandatory death threats.

That'll happen regardless. It's the internet and people are morons.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Also.

Even if a mauler is a close fight for a kodiak at range.
And an atlas is a close fight for a kodiak up close.
etc
etc
etc

Then by defintion the kodiak makes the others obsolete.

Mcgral18, on 14 April 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

A 100 ton Clam chassis with Ferro, Endo, stripped arms and a STD300 has 57.5 tons of pod space.

I was under the impression the Kodiak was an IS chassis with clan weapons..

Is that not the case?

[Gas Guzzler]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

Yeah, I forgot about armor.... I fixed it.



"more or less" a second is enough time to charge and fire both sets of gauss

walk backwards behind cover, let gauss reset, step up and repeat.

Ps 1.66 is closer to 2 than 1.

A quad guass kodiak is entirely possible, and it could totally out "range fight" a 4xAC5 mauler.

PS after range module and fire rate elite skill it is 1.34 seconds which is closer than 1 than 2

You can go on thinking that the quad gauss kodiak is going to be something, but its not. Quad UAC10s will be better.

And no, it will not out trade the Mauler MX90 with 5 AC5s, as soon as your ST armor pops your shoulders are going to explode.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Mcgral18, on 14 April 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

It's a Terribad thing to do, with Two bombs strapped to either ST.

But you could do it, which was the point

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

I was under the impression the Kodiak was an IS chassis with clan weapons..

Is that not the case?

It's a Clam Battlemech

A Clam mech through and through

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

You can go on thinking that the quad gauss kodiak is going to be something, but its not.

I said it could be done and that we'd see how the AC mauler did in a range fight against it.

I know I personally could wreck some AC maulers with it.....b/c I can do it in a dire.

Edit: But I don't really want to go back and forth anymore. You asked me to show you that it could be done. I did. We'll just have to wait for the future to see how it works in an actual game.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 08:58 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

But you could do it, which was the point

You can also make a Dire Star or a Dual Gauss BJ

That's not the point, because those are bad builds. You can build a cXL Quad Gauss Whale now, if you want, which would be nearly equally sluggish.


You can effectively do Quad UAC10s with a 350 engine; AKA, a semi mobile (similar to a 350 Banshee), hard hitting mech that can carry over 1k damage worth of ammo with abundant cooling.

Or 2k worth of ammo and no cooling, if you want.

That is to say, a 350 engine, 4 UAC10s, 4 DHS, Endo+FF, 10 tons of ammo and 3 Crits left.
That's also with 3 tons left.

So, reduce ammo to a more reasonable ~1200 dam (6 tons), and get more cooling (drop Ferro if needed, or arm armour) or even UPGRADE the engine.

UAC10s, are of course HOT, so you wouldn't want just 4 DHS
Strip some arms, keep the 350 and have 20 DHS and 2 slots remaining (no FF)

Or, spend a few tons for a large engine.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I said it could be done and that we'd see how the AC mauler did in a range fight against it.

I know I personally could wreck some AC maulers with it.....b/c I can do it in a dire.

Edit: But I don't really want to go back and forth anymore. You asked me to show you that it could be done. I did. We'll just have to wait for the future to see how it works in an actual game.

I asked you to show me that it could be done at 20 kph faster than a Mauler (that was your initial claim), which you failed to do.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 April 2016 - 09:00 PM.

[Navid A1]

Scout Derek, on 14 April 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

???

I'm pretty sure they did for the Dire Wolf. But I'm curious if I'm wrong, could you tell me what they didn't follow on concept art?

The difference between those two images is day and night.... in terms of proportions i mean, individual parts may be similar, yet the proportions of each part with respect to the rest of the mech is what makes or breaks the final model.

It is even enough for Russ, to say:

Edited by Navid A1, 14 April 2016 - 10:05 PM.

[Deathlike]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I said it could be done and that we'd see how the AC mauler did in a range fight against it.

I know I personally could wreck some AC maulers with it.....b/c I can do it in a dire.

Edit: But I don't really want to go back and forth anymore. You asked me to show you that it could be done. I did. We'll just have to wait for the future to see how it works in an actual game.

Paul, is that you?